How Many Cults Are Involved In 9-11 Denial?
I am continually amazed at the number of kooky cults that you find involved in the 9-11 Denial Movement. We've covered in some detail the URANTIA ties of Les Jamieson and Byron Belitsos, one of the founders of 9-11 Truth Dot Org. The Lyndon LaRouche Movement is well-represented with Webster Tarpley, a former spokesman for LaRouche in Europe, and a number of members in the NY 9-11 Deniers group, according to Nico Haupt and confirmed in the video of Nico's dustup with Les Jamieson at St. Mark's.
And those cults seem positively normal when compared to the reptoid alien believers. David Icke is of course the most famous. Less known but equally nutty are the Cassiopaeans of Laura Knight-Jadczyk. Knight-Jadczyk's contribution to the 9-11 bookshelf is called 9-11 The Ultimate Truth.
9/11: The Ultimate Truth makes a strong case for the idea that September 11, 2001 marked the moment when our planet entered the final phase of a diabolical plan that has been many, many years in the making. It is a plan developed and nurtured by successive generations of ruthless individuals who relentlessly exploit the negative aspects of basic human nature to entrap humanity as a whole in endless wars and suffering in order to keep us confused and distracted to the reality of the man behind the curtain.
Richard Heinberg is a Peak Oil theorist. We have not spent a great deal of time going over the Peak Oil folks here. Basically their theory is that we are already pumping as much oil out of the ground as possible and that inevitably oil production will start to decline, causing a big spike in prices. Some of the Peak Oil folks believe that the government plans to kill off 80% of the world's population so that the survivors have plenty of oil. At any rate, Heinberg is a self-admitted former cult member:
"For a time he lived in Colorado's Sunrise Ranch, an intentional community that served as the headquarters for an organization called "Emissaries of the Divine Light" It was "a sort of benign cult." he says.
Note: It is easy to assume that there are so many people from other cults in the 9-11 Denial Movement because if you're nutty enough to fall for one kooky idea, you're probably nutty enough to fall for another. Which would be fine if these people were just followers of 9-11 Denial. But in fact, they are leaders, authors and important people in this movement.
Anybody aware of more cult ties to 9-11 Denial? I have heard that Alex Jones often has Scientologists on his show, but denies any personal involvement in Scientology.
Labels: 9-11 Cultists., Cassiopaea, Lyndon LaRouche, Urantia
posted by Pat @ 12:10 PM
36 comments
36 Comments:
Isn't the whole movement a cult?
I'm tempted to make a tasteless joke about this being one letter off...
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The term 'prison planet' is found in some of the most bizarre Scientology beliefs surrounding alien civilisations, alien intervention on earth and so on, centring around a character called Xenu (an alien dictator, no less). Anyway, to cut a long story short, in this nonsense the earth is now a 'prison planet'. Whether Jones is a former Scientologist as some claim, or even whether or not he got took the term 'prison planet' from Scientology, I don't know.
Pff, a cult is just a religion without enough followers. $cientology does have enough followers.
Civilized Worm -
Take a look at Brainwashing in Scientology's Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF)
Forcible Confinement, Physical Maltreatment, Social Maltreatment, Intensive Study of Ideology, Forced Confessions...
Ah the good old wipe out 80 percent of the world population myth again.
When you look at the actual report, they don't talk about wiping out 80 percent of the world population, they mention birth control, because they were afraid of the foodshortages. But the topic was rather difficult to get past the Pope. Since birth control was a sticky object to talk about then, and still is i think by the Pope.
I know all about $cientology, it's some fucked up shit.
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Where are the Truthers worshipping Cthulu? The sleeper awakes.
But in fact, they are leaders, authors and important people in this movement.
Pat, you write as if you're barking mad. I consider NONE of these people in this blog leaders of 911activism, nor do the people I know involved in 911activism consider them our leaders. Nice try, but it doesn't fly--and you'd know that if you ever talked to ACTUAL 911activists.
So, since Jimbo is braindead, forgetful, cowardly or just plain incompetent and lazy, I'll ask you something YOU said you both know:
How did you find out the hoax "Pat" and the fake Nico originate from the same place?
This WAS just a friendly inquirely--okay, maybe not THAT friendly--until Jimbo started acting weird about it.
Why do you care, Jenny? You don't happen to live in Portland, do you?
Why do you care, Jenny? You don't happen to live in Portland, do you?
Puh-lease, Pat--you already know the answer to that question and you've known it for ages. And besides, I thought you said the place was outside of Portland. Or maybe that was Nico--it's getting confusing and Jimbo hasn't helped.:(
As for my question, I was just curious at first, then Jimbo went all weird. Does he do that often? Anway, the result is, it's looking bad for your side. I expected James to say something about getting blogger to trace IP's--but instead--weirdness.
Maybe you should get a more stable partner? Someone who appreciates your work and doesn't make a mess and expect you to clean it up? I bet that get's old after a while, doesn't it?
Anyhoo--my interest is inspired by the same type of curiousity that makes SOME overstate certain dubious but insignificant conections to 911activism--that, out of politeness I won't mention in any further detail.
So, indulge us--who did you two find out about the fake Nico and fake "Pat"?
How did you find out the hoax "Pat" and the fake Nico originate from the same place?
who did you two find out about the fake Nico and fake "Pat"?
Off-topic.
Irrelevant.
SPAM.
Well, I'm off for now. Whenever you get around to it, Pat, I'll be interested in your explaination. Or whenever James grows a spine. Which ever. Got other tasks to see to now.
Cheery bye.
BTW--for the Jonny-come-lately: didn't you know? Pat has said SPAM is a privilege! ;-P
Mark Roberts vs. James Fetzer was taped tonight in NY.
3 shows of shere Fetzer insanity.
I CAN'T WAIT!
Peak Oil is pretty much a certainity, though probably not with the apolalyptic visions some people would imagine. Eventually the supply of oil is going to reach a peak, and then decline. Prices will continually go up year by year and it will suck.
I've never heard of anyone using that as rationality for mass murder though.
And I thought Pat was supposed to be a good writer. Perhaps you should sack him, love. Personaly I prefer him to YOU, but I know your standards are stricter...
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I expected James to say something about getting blogger to trace IP's--but instead--weirdness.
Maybe you should get a more stable partner? Someone who appreciates your work and doesn't make a mess and expect you to clean it up? I bet that get's old after a while, doesn't it?
You are pathetic. I haven't seen such a lame and pathetic attempt to play people off each other since my sister tried to get my dad to buy her a pony when she was 7. Although I think my sister displayed more maturity than you do.
Sorry, unlike truthers we are not driven by paranoia, ego, and a desire for fame. All that you will get here is the facts and cold hard logic, not emotion.
Urantia is not a cult.
But, that's ok, more free publicity for us Urantia Cultists. :O
Peak Oil is pretty much a certainity, though probably not with the apolalyptic visions some people would imagine. Eventually the supply of oil is going to reach a peak, and then decline. Prices will continually go up year by year and it will suck.
That's one theory. Not to go too far off topic here, but it's also quite possible that we'll make the switch to alternate fuels for vehicles before reaching any kind of critical point in oil production.
How did you find out the hoax "Pat" and the fake Nico originate from the same place?
Kernel Jerky, you keep on bringing up shit no one cares about. You must be very lonely and desperate for attention.
Alex, Alternative fuels? You are sounding like a lefty!
True Alex, but then we'll hit Peak Coal =]
Unless you can find some way to generate the massive quanities of heat required to produce steel and cement with alternative energies.
Urantia is not a cult.
Agreed. Urantia seems little more than New Age waffle, and basically harmless. Believing in it would arguably involve a high level of credulity, but then so does believing in a lot of the stuff coming from the '9/11 Truth' camp.
Unless you can find some way to generate the massive quanities of heat required to produce steel and cement with alternative energies.
Well there's nuclear but most people freak out at the very thought of it.
The authors of The Urantia Book state their intent is to "present enlarged concepts and advanced truth" in an "endeavor to expand cosmic consciousness and enhance spiritual perception". Among many other topics, it expands on the origin and meaning of life, describes humankind's place in creation, discusses the relationship between God and people, and presents a detailed biography of Jesus. The book is 2,097 pages long, and consists of a Foreword and 196 papers, divided into four parts.
How is that not a religion/cult?
Civilized Worm -
I think the confusion lies in your conflation of the terms 'religion' and 'cult'. Generally speaking, 'cult' is taken to mean a religion that is destructive. For example, sects that promote notions such as 'thought reform', put their followers through abusive programmes (involving things such as sleep deprivation and psychological coercion), and so on. 'Destructive movements' is really what is meant by 'cults' in the religious context. In the more general sense of the '9/11 Truth' movement, 'cult-like' elements can be observed, such as denial when confronted with evidence, groupthink, veneration of authority figures, paranoia, and so on. These characteristics are common within destructive religious movements. However, I get the impression you think a 'cult' is just a small or nascent religion. The Dawkins/Harris approach may like to lump all religious beliefs into one catch-all category of 'irrationality' but that is an over-simplification. Someone like a liberal Christian priest, for example, is clearly engaging in a different kind of discourse and practice than someone like Marshall Applewhite, for example. Yes, they both use some crossover concepts ('God', 'faith') and share a belief in some supernatural agent, but that's about it. Evolutionary Biology and Creationism also share some crossover terminology and concepts, but they are far apart. So it is with 'religions' and 'cults'.
When refering to a "destructive" religion (I would few all religions as destructive to some extent) I would say religious extremist or fundamentalist.
The point I was trying to make is that just because a belief is held by a large number of people doesn't necessarily make it any less irrational than a belief held by a small group.
'cult-like' elements can be observed, such as denial when confronted with evidence, groupthink, veneration of authority figures, paranoia, and so on.
I would describe those as religious characteristics.
Civilized Worm
The point I was trying to make is that just because a belief is held by a large number of people doesn't necessarily make it any less irrational than a belief held by a small group.
But the point was really what is a 'cult'. By generally accepted definitions, Urantia is a New Age religious movement, but not a 'cult'. Scientology, however, with its record of abuse stories, 'thought reform', and so on, leans more towards the cult end of the spectrum.
I would describe those as religious characteristics
No, they're human charcteristics that appear in a number of contexts, including religious sects, political groups and movements, even in isolated families. To use the family example:
The wife is beaten by her husbnad, and the children are treated harshly.
1. Denial when confronted with evidence - wife believes abusive husband 'loves me really'.
2. Groupthink - 'our family is right, anyone who disagrees with us is wrong'. 'We must think how husband/father thinks'.
3. Veneration of authority figures - husband/father given godlike role in family.
4. Paranoia - 'the authorities' want to split the family up, 'the government'/IRS is against the family, etc.
These characteristics can emerge in any group situation, religious or otherwise.
True. The definition of "cult" is rather malleable, I got this from wikipedia:
In religion and sociology, a cult is a term designating a cohesive group of people (generally, but not exclusively a relatively small and recently founded religious movement[citation needed]) devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture or society considers to be outside the mainstream or reaching the point of a taboo. Its status may come about either due to its novel belief system, its idiosyncratic practices, its perceived harmful effects on members, or because it perceived opposition to the interests of the mainstream culture. Non-religious groups may also display cult-like characteristics.
"In common usage "cult" has a negative connotation and is generally applied to a group by opponents for a variety of reasons. "This popular use of the term has gained such credence and momentum that it has virtually swallowed up the more neutral historical meaning of the term from the sociology of religion" James T. Richardson wrote in 1993. Understandably, most, if not all, groups that are called "cults" reject this label. Some anthropologists and sociologists studying cults have argued that no one has yet been able to define “cult” in a way that enables the term to identify only groups that have been identified as problematic: Richardson's 1993 article summarized the scholarly dialogue."
Urantia is not a "doomsday" cult, but it certainly has some oddball aspects. I suppose so do mainstream religions, though.
http://losalamos911truth.blogspot.com/
Mr. Alamos, your blog has ended my faith in the internet, and my faith in the ability to stay on topic.
The more truthers use the term "pyroclastic flow" the more stupid it makes them look.
Introducing: Our chaplain and spiritual adviser
Col. Bob Bowman - the Star Warrior
he controlled about half a billion dollars worth of space programs, including the "Star Wars" programs
Obvious shill. He probably helped blow up the WTC with a space beam.
Sorry, unlike truthers we are not driven by paranoia, ego, and a desire for fame. All that you will get here is the facts and cold hard logic, not emotion.
LOL!
Your problem, Jimbo, is you're such a literalist--AND you're so easy to wind up! So much for COLD, HARD LOGIC, heh? LOL!
And for all your COLD, HARD LOGIC--you are incapable of giving me COLD, HARD LOGICAL answer to this question:
"How did you and Pat find out the hoax "Pat" and the fake Nico come from the same location?"
Bg thinks you have some "cunning plan", but there's no cunning plan to looking like a forgetful, incurious flake. And then having a meltdown when this is pointed out to you. The only plan is to distract, distract, distract. And when that fails, you send out a "sock". Never mind it never works.
And I notice you didn't let Patrick answer.
Well, Jimbo, guess this is the begining of an ugly friendship. Unless you ban me, as eddie-come-lately suggested.
Still, thanks for not bringing up that other "thing"--I'll be good if you be good. ;-)
Civilized Worm--doesn't it bother you that, for someone who considers themselves a rapier debunk wit, you never have any idea what's going on? Much like CHF...
Even Jimbo isn't that bad--he's just handling it inexpertly, and I'm taking shameless advantage of him. ;-P
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