Idiot Troofer Finally Takes Up the Challenge

Over here and at JREF, we have occasionally wondered why the Troofers never talk about freedom for KSM, or Zacharias Moussaoui, or one of the other terrorist plotters. It certainly seems inconsistent with their belief that these "alleged" terrorists are in fact innocent.

Well, one particularly stupid "Truthter" has taken up the challenge of supporting the terrorists: David Ray Griffin.

I am writing in support of the international campaign, headed up by Elias Davidsson (who long lived in Iceland but now lives in Hamburg, Germany), calling for a new trial for Mounir El Motassadeq, who has been convicted of assisting the 9/11 attacks.

I have known Elias Davidsson for several years and know him to be an extremely careful researcher into the 9/11 attacks and also to be a passionate advocate for justice.

When I was in Hamburg last fall, I went with Elias to see Mounir's lawyer. He seems to be a good man and a capable lawyer, who will represent Mounir well if he gets the opportunity.

I agreed to be on the committee for Mounir along with Elias and a few others, including Annie Machon and Barrie Zwicker.

Incidentally, Mounir did indeed know Mohamed Atta. But in response to the question of whether the Mohamed Atta he knew in Hamburg was the same as the Mohamed Atta whose picture is in The 9/11 Commission Report, he said that they looked very different.

Seriously, is there anything too dumb for David Ray Griffin to believe it?

Luke Describes His G20 Arrest

Some pretty good entertainment value here; note that Alex talks about the FEMA camps again, but somehow Luke didn't get sent there. Perhaps the cops know that Luke requires "special handling".

Update: Troy meets Luke:



Luke may not be a sheeple, but he sure seems sheepish in that video.

LCAC Script

Has been uploaded by JFK (PDF file), one of the mods at the LC Forum.

Nothing really much going on with the Troofers right now; I think everybody's waiting for the pie-in-the-face finale of NYC-CAN.

NYC-CAN'T Get Any Marchers

Here's a video of the march by JREF Forum Member Big Al:

80,000 people signed their petition, and about 80 of them showed up.

Wow, That Was Some Peer Review

These people are beyond parody.

Version 5 has considerable revision from page 8 on, and a few minor edits earlier. The main addition is a table showing that there is a range of flight paths which would enable the plane to hit the light poles and the Pentagon, without excessive g-force being encountered.
http://journalof911studies.com/volume/2009/WhatHitPentagonDrLeggeAug.pdf

Already I have found errors in version 5 so there will be a version 6. The errors are in the table of flight paths going over the Navy Annex. The argument remains unchanged however. The paths going over and to the south of the VDOT antenna I still believe are correct.

KBDI Starts to Raise Some Eyebrows

Vince Carroll, a columnist at the Denver Post:

And how has the grand conspiracy, which the film suggests includes the major media, been kept under wraps all these years? Why has no one in this vast web of deceit developed pangs of conscience or second thoughts, or called in a film crew for a death-bed confession?

Anticipating such questions, Gage claims "the Manhattan project had thousands of people and was kept quite a secret for a very long time." By "very long time," he must mean the brief period before spies like Klaus Fuchs, David Greenglass and Theodore Hall began passing classified material to the Soviets.

And the PBS ombudsman:

Here's what one viewer from Alpine, Colo., wrote to me last week:

"I have a great respect for PBS and always listen to it when we are in our 2nd home back in Virginia. But I had occasion to listen to the KBDI station out of Denver CO tonight [Sept. 17] and was exposed to this nonsense about 9/11 essentially being a hoax.

"As a career army officer and Vietnam veteran I really do understand the tendency of my government to mould the truth to fit its political needs, but the garbage and pseudo science surrounding this particular PBS sponsored program does the entire PBS community a great disservice. It was presented during a station fund raiser which made it all the more incredible to me. The content was presented from one perspective and the local PBS commentators all but gushed over it as being the 'truth' incarnate. They looked out at us viewers with steely eyed sincerity and could have said our landing on the moon or the attack on Pearl Harbor was a government hoax and done it without blinking. Needless to say every conspiracy nut in the Nazi part of Colorado or in range of KBDI feels vindicated and the grassy knoll crowd and UFO buffs will be clamoring for air time. I have never heard such tripe from any PBS station and if you guys have any form of internal review for program content, you might want to give this one a real close examination. Shame on PBS for allowing these loonies to use the PBS moniker.

As usual, the kooks come out in the comments section.

Troofer Mike Ruppert Guilty of Sexual Harrassment, Fined 127 Grand

Heheh, couldn't happen to a nicer nutbar:

Former Ashland businessman Michael Ruppert says he is innocent of sexually harassing a former employee and may appeal a state labor board ruling that he pay her $127,713.

Ruppert said the case was based on a deliberate attempt to discredit his work, a movie coming out about his views and his former newsletter, From The Wilderness.

More discussion here:

State labor commissioner, Brad Avakian, says Ruppert continually propositioned Lindsay Gerken – one time walking into her office wearing nothing but his underwear and a smile.

Hat Tip: Commenter Snapple.

LCAC Uploaded to YouTube

Don't know how long this will last on YT; this was obviously not uploaded by the Loosers. Hat tip to dwlan in the comments.

Troofers In NYC on 9-11

Not a ton of entertainment in this one, just Troofers chanting a lot while Luke harangues them about why they were there.

Truther Decline Showing in Polling

Orphia Nay at JREF points out the latest poll result.

The Sibel Edmonds Article

Up at the AmCon, and it's a snoozer as far as "9-11 Inside Job" goes. Remember all that hoopla that supposedly Bin Laden was on the CIA Payroll up till 9-11? Well, here's how that plays out in the interviews:

EDMONDS: Okay. So these conversations, between 1997 and 2001, had to do with a Central Asia operation that involved bin Laden. Not once did anybody use the word “al-Qaeda.” It was always “mujahideen,” always “bin Laden” and, in fact, not “bin Laden” but “bin Ladens” plural. There were several bin Ladens who were going on private jets to Azerbaijan and Tajikistan. The Turkish ambassador in Azerbaijan worked with them.

There were bin Ladens, with the help of Pakistanis or Saudis, under our management. Marc Grossman was leading it, 100 percent, bringing people from East Turkestan into Kyrgyzstan, from Kyrgyzstan to Azerbaijan, from Azerbaijan some of them were being channeled to Chechnya, some of them were being channeled to Bosnia. From Turkey, they were putting all these bin Ladens on NATO planes. People and weapons went one way, drugs came back.

And no kidding, as far as I can see, that's the whole tie-in to 9-11. Now I think anybody faced with the headline "Bin Laden on CIA payroll" might some questions in mind, but when you say "Bin Ladens on CIA payroll" there should be one obvious question: Which Bin Laden?

Don't get me wrong, there are absolutely some explosive allegations in the article, specifically that Richard Perle and Douglas Feith provided information to the Turkish embassy that could be used to blackmail secrets out of defense department officials with highly classified information:

EDMONDS: Absolutely. And we also had Pentagon officials doing the same thing. We were looking at Richard Perle and Douglas Feith. They had a list of individuals in the Pentagon broken down by access to certain types of information. Some of them would be policy related, some of them would be weapons-technology related, some of them would be nuclear-related. Perle and Feith would provide the names of those Americans, officials in the Pentagon, to Grossman, together with highly sensitive personal information: this person is a closet gay; this person has a chronic gambling issue; this person is an alcoholic. The files on the American targets would contain things like the size of their mortgages or whether they were going through divorces. One Air Force major I remember was going through a really nasty divorce and a child custody fight. They detailed all different kinds of vulnerabilities.

But if you want to chow down on that one, use a couple pounds of salt, because Sibel lied in her letter to the 9-11 Commission.

And I do have to wonder at her claims. Is she seriously saying that Feith and Perle were selling us down the river to the Turks? But I will let others handle that part. For the moment, Sibel once again has nothing to tell us about 9-11. But maybe next time, Truthers. She's got a pony for you, just keep digging!

The Fat Lady Is Moving Towards the Front of the Stage

And it appears that the comic opera known as NYC-CAN'T is headed for the final curtain.

Today the New York City Coalition for Accountability Now (NYC CAN) filed its Memorandum of Law with the New York State Supreme Court, beginning a 6-day count down until the historic March For Answers to be held on September 27 at 2pm. The march will start at Battery Park and work its way towards Ground Zero, the New York City Clerk, and the State Supreme Court, before arriving at City Hall.

The legal memo is here (PDF file), and while for the most part it is "legal" (i.e., more boring than high school geography), there is some entertaining "Truth" to it as well:

1. "Set up to fail."
2. "Pull it." (No, I'm not kidding, see page 11).
3. Stand-down order.
4. Sibel Edmonds.

Mingled in with the legal citations are footnotes referencing YouTube videos and the Journal of Nine-Eleven Studies. I'll leave it to the lawyers to figure out whether the Troofers get the pie in the face on the 30th; but the fact that the Troofers are talking about the countdown to the "historic" day they march rather than the day the decision will be announced is probably a pretty good clue.

And typical Troofer dolts, note that they are marching on the NYC Clerk's office, the State Supreme Court, and City Hall. On September 27, which happens to be a Sunday. Yes, I assume that's the only day they can muster some support, but it's like the old joke:

Yet More Overly Credulous Journalism

This time from the Santa Barbara Independent.

It's long and it goes far too easy on Richard Gage and his goofball gaggle:

Now, in three years, Gage has signed up 804 architects and structural engineers, some from top firms, who challenge the official version of the buildings’ collapses.

Of course a real analysis of Gage's gang reveals that many are neither architects or engineers, and the ones that are would increase the average age at at most nursing homes.

Notably, the FBI’s Counterterrorism Division has acknowledged that AE911’s core evidence deserves — and will get — FBI scrutiny. In a December 2008 letter, Assistant Director Michael J. Heimbach assessed AE911’s presentation as “backed by thorough research and analysis.”

That bit always cracks me up. Did they really expect an FBI agent to write back and tell them that they were a bunch of nutbars? Have they followed up with Heimbach to see how much "scrutiny" he's given to their theories since December 2008? I mean, it's ten months now, surely the arrests for controlled demolition at the towers is imminent?

Within his 20-year career, Richard Gage, 53, has designed numerous fireproofed steel-framed buildings.

Bull. Richard Gage has designed a few gymnasiums, that were not steel-framed unless construction methods of gymnasiums have changed in the last decade. I'm sure his gymnasiums were either tilt-up concrete or masonry, and that the only steel elements were the joists holding up the roof. And I'd doubt very strongly that those joists were fireproofed.

Update: For Brian. Concrete gymnasium in Northern California. Berkeley, no less:

Willard Middle School is comprised of five buildings: a partial two-story classroom building constructed of concrete, a single-story concrete gymnasium building with attached girls locker room, a single-story concrete multi-use building (I building), a single-story concrete cafeteria building (attached to the I building), and a single-story split-level administration building. The I building and gymnasium were constructed in 1952, the cafeteria and administration buildings were constructed in 1964 and the classroom building was constructed in 1977.

Note that although the gym was built in the 1950s, the modernization program did not involve replacing the concrete structure:

the gymnasium modernization which included:

* modifications to improve accessibility, including restroom improvements;
* hazardous material removal;
* an upgraded electrical system which included new clocks and fire alarm improvements;
* a new mechanical system;
* fresh paint, new skylights and a new roof;
* a remodeled interior to accommodate a weight room; and
* a new gymnasium floor, new backboards and new bleachers.

If only Richard Gage had been the architect, he would have told them that steel framing is the only way to go, forget the new floor.

I could continue with many more examples--do you know what they make gyms out of in earthquake-prone Japan, Brian?--but I'm not going to let the tail wag the dog.

Nancy Drew Hits the American Conservative

The article will apparently be available online tomorrow. Look for more revelations from the low-level translator of Turkish for the FBI, who was hired after 9-11 and fired six months later. It's amazing all the information she picked up and forgot to mention on that 60 Minutes interview 7 years ago.

How They Did It

Hat tip to TDMVP at the Orange Mane Forums (free registration required), where a terrific bunch of guys are doing a wonderful job debunking Troofer Mark Gaffney. Thumbs up!

Math, Spelling And Physics? What Is This, High School?

Gotta love this post over at the increasingly ridiculous 9-11 Flogger:

Let us rile corporate educational intstitutions

UBC - A gigantic institution has a call out for submissions for their current ad campaign: From here. I think we should try to get the attention of the engineering faculty and students by saying stuff like:

110 stories in under 15 seconds. You do the math. From here.

Suspended laws of physics. From Here.

BTW, congrats to James B's Huskies!

The Strange World of Diana Ralph

We have mentioned Diana Ralph on a couple of occasions, she was a member of the editorial board of Steven Jones' Journal of 9/11 Studies, and has written a bit on conspiracy theories. Mostly I was just wondering what exactly it is that a PhD in Social Work does anyway. Now Jonathan Kay, the Canadian journalist who is actively researching a book on the truthers, does some more investigating into her strange views.

But it gets worse when we find out more about Diana Ralph. She is the IJV co-founder, co-chairwoman and "coordinator" who boasts of having personally solicited the "generous donation" from the United Church.

Did the UCC do their due diligence on Ms. Ralph and her group before they forked over the cash?

Let's take a look.In an essay that this IJV honcho contributed to the 2006 book The Hidden History of 9-11, Ms. Ralph argues that the Sept. 11 attacks were not perpetrated by al-Qaeda, but rather by American and Israeli conservatives seeking to implement "a secret, strategic plan to position the U.S. as a permanent unilateral super-power poised to seize control of Eurasia, and thereby the entire world."

And who created the master plan for all this? Zionists plotting on Israeli soil. "The concept of a 'war on terror' pre-dates 9-11 by 22 years," Ms. Ralph writes in her exposé. "Its seeds were first planted in 1979 at the Jerusalem Conference on International Terrorism (JCIT) organized by Bejamin Netanyahu (future Israeli Prime Minister). [Subsequent Israeli actions] hauntingly foreshadowed the 9-11 'attacks' and the Bush 'war on terror.' "

Chertoff Deals with the Fruitcakes

I like his response when the host asks him about the 9-11 nutbars: He compares them to Holocaust Deniers and Obama Birthers. That's right on the money.

Nathan Moulton Seeks Out An Agent of the NWO

(Note: Profanity, NSFW)

Typical whiny Troofer who doesn't like his own tactics turned on him. There are apparently more videos in this series; check the sidebar on YouTube.

The Truth Version 4.0

Geez, the troofers have more bug fixes than Microsoft. Frank Legge, one of the editors of the supposedly peer-reviewed Journal of 9/11 Studies, has now published the 4th version of his paper on the Pentagon, and says he might come out with a 5th. Now wasn't this paper supposed to be peer-reviewed before the first version? The thing is, it is still stupid.

Version 4. This version further developed some issues and corrected some errors. It also added thepreface to clarify the purpose of the paper and to answer some unfounded criticisms. Version 3 expanded the implications of publicly accepting or rejecting the official position that a 757 hit the Pentagon. I am very grateful for the help provided. All significant alterations have been identified and discussed in footnotes.

Update: I figured I should throw this in, as it is related to this paper. After the first version came out, I e-mailed Legge asking him a question about a statement he had made. Here is part of the exchange:

JamesB
Are you familiar with the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy?

"Why did the plane aim for the reinforced section, which still had few occupants due to the recent renovation? Would al Qaeda have wanted to minimize casualties? Why did it not hit the relatively weak roof? There were auditors in the damaged section who were investigating the loss of trillions of military dollars. Most of the auditors died, which has led to considerable speculation regarding motive. Who would wish to kill auditors?"

I am not asserting that this event is proof, but that it relates to the probability of foul play. So there is no fallacy.

It is just one more element in the list of odd things. The one I am most interested in is the use of explosives in the towers and WTC7. One could assert that al Qaeda placed the explosives so even that is not proof, but it relates to probability.
FL

JamesB

That is not what you said. You claimed that they aimed for that particular spot because of an importance that you placed on it after the fact. In fact the most probable explanation is simply because that is the side of the Pentagon the plane happened to be flying in from. Your argument is so incoherent even you cannot follow it.

Incidentally this whole "missing" $2.3 trillion thing has been widely misrepesented. It has nothing to do with Bush or Rumsfeld, and in fact was first mentioned in the press in March 2000, during the Clinton administration. You would think a peer-review would catch things like that.

Before going into any further details I have a couple of questions for you. What is your opinion about the twin towers? Were they brought down by explosives? If so, is that not rather odd, given that the NIST report denied the use of explosives?

JamesB

I thought we were talking about the Pentagon. You can't defend your paper from more than 2 questions without having to switch to an entirely different subject? Some peer-review.

And no. I do not believe the towers were brought down with supermagicinvisiblesilentnanotherm*te. The truth burn guys couldn't even figure out how to bring down a 6 foot tall sign with thermite.

Glad I asked you that. Saves me a lot of time. Pointless to defend the Pentagon paper.

The section of his paper that I quoted at the beginning is actually no longer in the paper, it having disappeared somewhere in the last 3 versions. Legge gives no explanation for this. The conversation, unbelievably goes on from there and his logic gets even more strained.

This is Your Brain on Alex Jones

I was over on Alex Jones' Prison Planet, with my occasional perusal of the nuttiness, and came across this YouTube video, of a women who claims to be a military reservist blowing the whistle on the preparations for martial law forcing everyone to take the Swine Flu vaccine. As part of this, she claims, military units are planning to set up checkpoints, and mark people who have received the vaccine, and then cart off the rest to concentration camps. She is, of course, revealing this at great risk to her own life, and warns that she may never be heard from again if this video "falls into the wrong hands", which I suppose is pretty hard to prevent, since it is on YouTube.



In any case, as proof of this nefarious plot, she posts the documentation at the end of the video from the miniaturized "brand new" "RFID tracking device" that they are going to use to track the movements of the people as part of this martial law crackdown. A quick examination of this paperwork shows it is a "Phoenix Jr" from Cejay Systems, which can be easily found at their website with the description.

Phoenix Jr. (NSN: 5855-01-438-4588) is an extremely rugged and low cost Infrared marker beacon. The Phoenix Jr. was principally designed as an individual Combat Identification marker employed to minimize fratricide (the inadvertent destruction of battle field assets by friendly forces.) It has also been used as a vehicle ID marker, drop zone indicator and perimeter marker. Since its introduction in 1984, the Phoenix Jr. is the most widely used electronic Combat ID system in the world.

The fact that this woman might actually be in the military, is scary.

Update: I suppose I should add, for people who aren't familiar with the technology. That little device that she shows, is basically just a couple of LEDs which operate in the infrared spectrum. The reason it is so little is that it is just the top, and it clips on a 9 volt battery. Aside from the fact that it is not RFID, and is essentially nothing more than a tiny flashlight only visible through night vision goggles, it would be a silly way of tracking people against their will.

Gee, I don't know, how would you defeat such nefarious technology? Maybe you could... unplug the battery?

Grifter Continues Digging

In an interview with Kevin Barrett (MP3 file), Griffin starts (39:00 in) lauding Osama Bin Laden, who's apparently a combination of Christ and Albert Schweitzer. It's so ridiculously over the top that it almost seems like a parody, but Grifter's apparently serious.

Meanwhile Griffin publishes a paper on the "Mysterious Collapse" of Building 7. It's the typical nonsense, and also as usual, his citations are worth checking:

32. Quoted in Christopher Bollyn, “Professor Says ‘Cutter Charges’ Brought Down WTC Buildings,” American Free Press.net, May 1 & 8, 2006
(http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/cutter_charges_brought_down_wt.html).

Has Griffin ever published anything that didn't include neo-Nazis or Holocaust Deniers as a source?

Those Wonky "Truthers"

A perhaps overly-sympathetic article on the creeps:

At first glance, the scene outside last week's 9/11 Film festival resembled that of any other big, protest-oriented event. Truther organizations such as the Northern California 911 Truth Alliance and Project Censored crammed the lobby of Oakland's Grand Lake Theater, setting up tables with books; DVDs; "Wake Up and Smell the Fascism" bumper stickers; rubber stamps with the slogan "9/11 was an inside job;" pictures of Hendrix, John Lennon, and Mahatma Gandhi; and "Deception dollars." Middle-aged white guys with long hair and tie-dyed shirts milled around the room, greeting each other like old friends. It looked and felt like a typical crowd of rabble-rousers — at least until you listened in on their conversations.

Yep, the grey ponytail crowd was apparently out in force, with David Ray Griffin speaking and several dense films on the agenda. And one bit of lighter fare:

Wednesday night wound up being the cool, hip-hoppy half of the festival and Thursday the nerdy, academic half. The main draw on Wednesday was the world premiere of Loose Change 9/11: An American Coup, the latest of a series made by twenty-five-year-old director Dylan Avery. His films, which feature slick hip-hop soundtracks and VH1-style editing (the new one is narrated by actor Daniel Sunjata) mark the apex of popular success for 9-11 conspiracy-theory material. According to producer Korey Rowe, it is the most downloaded movie in the history of the Internet. During the post-screening discussion, no one challenged Avery's premise that 9-11 was planned and coordinated by the US government, or that the World Trade Center collapsed because of a controlled demolition, rather than a plane crash or fire damage. Instead, audience questions ranged from basic (i.e., "Why do you call the film Loose Change) to specific ("Why was Obama included in the closing of this film?"). Cleary, Rowe and Avery were preaching to the converted.

We also get a new theory:

"Dr. Griffin, regarding the reason for taking down World Trade Center 7: One theory is that it was an 'SCIF' — a Secure Controlled Intelligence Facility. This theory holds that the key CIA agents who were responsible for 9-11 were told to come to World Trade Center 7 for a debriefing that afternoon, and WTC 7 was taken down for the purpose of killing these CIA agents, thus covering up key evidence. What is your opinion of this theory?"

Actually, SCIF stands for Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, but otherwise the theory seems only to lack one little thing: evidence.

I Suggest "Can o' Termites"

Well, a new world record was set at SanderFest 2009:

On Saturday, Sept. 12th, DJ Green Arrow set a new World Record for Longest Rap. At the "We Demand Transparency" conference, Green Arrow rapped for a total of just under 10 hours, according to guidelines set by Guinness World Records.

When asked why he attempted the record, Green responded that he "wants to put 9/11 Truth in the Guinness".

He rapped about 9/11 Truth for a good part of the attempt, even rapping directly to Richard Gage, putting Gage's story of how he founded AE911Truth.org into rhyme, causing Gage to dance.

I certainly hope we're going to get a YouTube of that. And:

He is still looking for the best rhymes for 'nanothermite' and will attempt to break his own record next year on 10/10/10.

And The Quote-Mining Begins

As I predicted the other day, the nutbars over at 911 Troof dot org are already quote mining John Farmer's new book.

And Rutgers Law School-Newark Dean John Farmer, Senior Counsel and Team Leader to the 9/11 Commission states in his newly released book, The Ground Truth,

"At some level of government,at some point in time, a decision was made not to tell the truth about the national response to the attacks on the morning of 9/11. We owe the truth to the families of the victims of 9/11. We owe it to the American public as well, because only by understanding what has gone wrong in the past can we assure our nation's safety in the future."

Any notion that Farmer's book supports the 9-11 Conspiracy Nutbars call for a new 9-11 Commission should be dispelled by this quote from Farmer's recent interview with Brad Friedman:

John Farmer- Well, let me just say that I think the [9-11 Commission] report is, uh, extremely accurate, and- and sets forth the facts of 9/11. And we actually did point out in the report the discrepancies between the accounts that were given and what we actually found.

Russia Today Continues to Pimp the Nutbars

Two planes, three buildings! Do the math! Uh, what math?

Hat tip: Patrick from Cincinnati.

Reports from Troofest '09 Trickling In

One of the guys who went to Sander's NYC event:

* Barrett, Ranke, Les Jamieson and many of his associates were all there.
* Ranke had a table set up in front of the church where he was distributing free DVDs of National Security Alert
* Ranke spoke and literally had people standing up clapping when he was finished. I would not call it a standing ovation, but people in attendance were overwhelmingly supportive.
* Ellen Brown's book Web of Debt has praise on the back of it by a writer for the American Free Press.
* There were not more than maybe 200 people there. I think that most of the crowd volume was at the We Are Change event. This one attracted a much older audience than the We Are Change activities that I witness at Ground Zero yesterday.
* Daniel Hopsicker was not there and apparently backed out at the last minute. I am not sure if he had problems with who else was on the bill.

Heheh, people were standing and clapping, but it's not a standing ovation? As for Hopsicker, I'd guess that they couldn't pay his airfare. And the attendance estimate may be overblown:

My estimate would be 100 or even less. It was definitely a pathetic scene, that's for sure.

Or less:

The portion of the conference today with Baker was really good. It was a lot of the same stuff that I had heard from Baker before, but he is always very informative. There were about 60 people there and like Truthmod said, it was almost entirely white men over the age of 50.

Jon Gold can't even drive to Ground Zero for 9-11 without dedicating the ride:



The education of the sheeple goes on:



I love that he leads with John Schroeder.

Anybody seen any text reports from the We Are Changing Diapers crew?

Update: Our buddy CHF writes that the Toronto Troof chapter was a little more honest than most:

Toronto 9/11 Truth: 8th Anniversary Celebration, Fri, September 11th, 7 pm

Yep, it's a celebration.

9-11 Commission Counsel Farmer Interviewed by Brad Friedman

I cannot recommend this interview highly enough. Farmer overstates, certainly, the earth-shattering revelations in his new book, although it does sound like it is a good book on the commission and on the attacks.

Among other things, Farmer states the following, about 15:15 into the interview:

"Well, let me just say that I think the [9-11 Commission] report is extremely accurate and sets forth the facts of 9-11, and actually we did point out in the report the discrepancies between the accounts that we were given and what we actually found."

He also blames 9-11 on the parties responsible (Al Qaeda and the hijackers); inside the government he blames bureaucracy as the reason the plot was not uncovered beforehand.

You know how the Troofers like to say that nobody was disciplined or reprimanded? Farmer says (24:40) that one Department of Transportation employee (an FAA controller) was disciplined for "failing to be forthcoming with us." But again Farmer highlights that the problems occurred systemically and were largely due to bureaucratic inertia.

Friedman cherry picks a few of the question on the petition Van Jones signed and asks them of Farmer (25:20). This section is particularly highly recommended, as Farmer's answers are probably the same ones I would give.

The Troofers are already claiming that Farmer lied when he said he saw the tapes of the Pentagon crash. If you listen carefully, he says he saw the Citgo gas station tape, but that he did not see a plane crash into the Pentagon; for that he references the eyewitnesses.

The View From the Right

Earlier Pat posted about David Corn and his take on the truthers, from the other side of the political spectrum we have Jonah Goldberg and Charles Krauthammer. Poor guys, getting it from both sides.

My favorite quote, from Mr. Krauthammer:

Unlike the other stuff (see above), this is no trivial matter. It’s beyond radicalism, beyond partisanship. It takes us into the realm of political psychosis, a malignant paranoia that, unlike the Marxist posturing, is not amusing. It’s dangerous. In America, movements and parties are required to police their extremes. Bill Buckley did that with Birchers. Liberals need to do that with “truthers.”

You can no more have a truther in the White House than you can have a Holocaust denier — a person who creates a hallucinatory alternative reality in the service of a fathomless malice.

I Accept Charlie Sheen's Challenge

Let's roll.

Appearing on The Alex Jones Show today to discuss his video address to Barack Obama, Charlie Sheen has challenged those who have publicly attacked him for speaking out on 9/11, particularly Meghan McCain, Rush Limbaugh Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly, to debate him on CNN's Larry King Live.

Chuck, I'm publicly attacking you for speaking out on 9-11. I promise not to bring up your hookers or your divorces or your drug use; I promise to keep the debate solely on the evidence presented in your video address to President Obama.

So what do you say? Have your people contact my people.

The Crazy Scale

Who's nuttier, the Birthers or the Truthers?

On to the truthers. This is a conspiracy theory of older vintage, with a richer history of horsesh*t, so we won't even try to be comprehensive in assessing the movement's claims. Let's just tackle the shaky cornerstone of a premise, which in this case consists of the observation that the collapse of the twin towers is better explained as the result of a controlled demolition than airplane collisions. Adherents of this belief, including Brigham Young University physics professor Steven E. Jones, say that there has never been an adequate formal investigation into the possibility that explosives planted within the World Trade Center brought down the towers, rather than the extreme heat of burning jet fuel, which experts concluded caused the collapse of the buildings' steel skeletons.

And:

Our final verdict: Truthers are crazier. Birthers are dumber. In the name of the Illuminati, let's hope these people don't mingle among each other and reproduce.

That sounds about right to me; the Truthers have a lot of nutty professors and the Birthers not so much. But more Birthers, certainly is my impression.

David Corn on Van Jones and the Troofers

One of the very earliest debunkers of the conspiracy theories reflects on the main accomplishment of the nutbars:

As far as I can tell, the only thing the so-called 9/11 Truth movement has accomplished is this: it's caused the Obama administration to lose its most prominent expert on green jobs. So well done, Truthers. Thanks to you, the federal government will now be spending about $80 billion on green economy initiatives without the guiding hand of one of the most knowledgeable experts in this field.

Also provides some meta-level reasons the Troofers are wrong:

They're Not That Ballsy. Anyone who tried to pull off such a caper would realize that exposure was a possibility. Not matter how hard you might try to keep this a secret, you'd have to recognize there was a chance that somehow the public would find out. If a president or veep were caught having engineered 9/11 or permitting it to occur, they would rank far above Benedict Arnold in the annals of infamy. They would be--in the words of Keith Olbermann--the worst persons in the world. The ramifications would be practically incalculable. Did Bush and Cheney have the guts to take such a risk? But if you think Bush, Cheney, and all the others that would have had to be in on it had such cojones, ponder this.....

Solid article, well-worth the read.

Enya Tribute

Still the best remembrance of that horrible day, eight years ago.

Rob Breakenridge MP3 Up

Scroll down a bit for The World Tonight Redux and you'll see the episode there; right click and save link (or target) as to download the MP3 file.

One thing that hit me as I hit the sack last night was that Dylan is full of crap on his response to my first issue, which was the bit about the Defense Department and defense industry people on the plane. If he is not indicating that it's suspicious that those folks were on the plane, that he's just showing that the planes were light on passengers, then why does he highlight those particular passengers?

And as it happens this is not one of those things you need to watch Loose Change 9-11 American Coup to see. You can watch Final Cut here and start it at 38:16, and see how Dylan shows us where the hijackers were located. Then he shows us where Barbara Olsen was seated, as well as employees from Boeing, Raytheon, the Department of Defense, Lockheed Martin, American Airlines, the Navy, Army and "other government agencies". Is there any doubt what he's doing there? And, aside from Daniel Sunjata's narration, there's no difference as far as I can see between FC and AC on this point.

Richard Gage Explains Explosives

Both Richard Gage and Steven Jones were on Alex Jones radio show yesterday. Box Boy was so entertaining I had to make a short You Tube video of him.

Debate with Dylan Tomorrow Night

Note: This post will remain up top until Thursday night. Some newer posts may appear below.

Rob Breakenridge is providing the radio bandwidth on AM 770, Calgary, on Thursday, September 10, at 8:00 PM Mountain Time, which is 7:00 Pacific, 9:00 Central and 10:00 PM Eastern Time. For those of us not fortunate enough to live in the frozen tundra, you can listen live here. I have never actually debated Dylan before; we were scheduled one time, but it ended up being Jason Bermas instead.

Update: Call-in numbers: 1-800-563-7770, or 403-974-8255 for those in the Calgary area.

Thanks Again to Rob Breakenridge!

Definitely the one talk show host who I feel knows as much about 9-11 Debunking as I do. I loved the way he would not let Dylan evade his questions. Dylan caught me by surprise by telling me to interview the people who provided the dust samples; fortunately he overreached by citing the guy who swept some dust into a ziplock bag, giving me the opportunity to insist that was not a chain of custody.

I will find out if an MP3 is available.

A Response to Diane

One of the more thoughtful 9-11 Truth activists writes:

Screw Loose Change has been pouring scorn (here
and here) on NYC-CAN’s ballot initiative. The SLC folks assume that the NYC government’s legal challenges are valid and irrefutable, and that we stupid “troofers” just didn’t even bother to look at the election law, or hire a lawyer.

That's a reasonably fair summation of the way I look at things. Oh, I'm sure they bothered to look at election law and may have hired a lawyer. Although, again, the question is how thorough they were given the specific objections raised, like the fact that the Commissioners could not, by NY State Law, be out-of-state residents. That strikes me as pretty basic.

She responds:

First off, last I heard, the ballot initiative does indeed deal with the funding question, about which I heard lots of discussion back in 2007/2008. The funding is to be accomplished by raising money from private sources. And, from what I remember hearing last year, Pepper has claimed that he already has a bunch of rich donors lined up. So the funding may be a non-issue.

If the funding is to come from private sources, this also implies that the commissioners aren’t, properly speaking, government officials. Hence Pepper might be able to argue that some aspects of New York State election law, such as the residency requirement, are not applicable. (I have no inside info on whether Pepper actually intends to make such an argument, nor do I have any idea how well it might hold up in court. I’m just guessing here.)

Funding via pixie dust is not a viable option, and I doubt very much that the rich donors exist. After all, if they had sugar daddies, why were they constantly begging for money to hire petition-gatherers and a lawyer to represent them? The amount of money required for those things is peanuts compared to the proposed $50 million price-tag for the commission.

And the bit about how the private funding means that the commissioners aren't government officials is so much hand waving. Remember this commission is supposed to have subpoena power and the ability to place witnesses under oath, which implies that lying to the commission would be perjury. How can you have those powers without being part of the government?

The latest update on the status of the ballot initiative was posted by Orphia Nay at JREF:

The court-appointed referee will begin a line-by-line review of the disputed signatures on Wednesday, September 9, and is scheduled to complete the review by Friday, September 18. If the referee and court accept at least 3,996 of the disputed signatures as valid – meeting the requisite number of 30,000 signatures – and if 15,000 of the 28,000 signatures from the September 4 submission are deemed valid, the only remaining hurdle to getting the referendum on the ballot will be the ongoing court case over the legality of the petition.

Update: According to NYC-CAN, the 30,000 signature requirement hurdle has been cleared:

In a last minute decision, lawyers for the City of New York have conceded that the New York City Coalition for Accountability Now (NYC CAN), a group comprising 9/11 family members, first responders and survivors, indeed did submit over 30,000 valid signatures to put the referendum for a new 9/11 investigation before the voters of New York City this November.

But:

NYC CAN must deliver its memorandum of law in response to the City’s motion for summary judgment by Monday, September 21. The City will be given an opportunity to reply before the referee’s decision is made on Monday September 28. Fast-track appeals will likely follow no matter who wins. A final decision will have to be made by September 30.

Ed Begley: I Was Lured In by Tinfoil Hatters

Interesting bit with Begley who now claims he was just interested in the air quality issues, which is legitimate, and was appalled by the claims of controlled demolition. I like that he goes immediately to the "Cheney planted bombs in the towers, but he didn't plant WMD in Iraq?" argument.

It may be argued (and probably will be) that this is an effort by Begley to help out Van Jones by pointing out how the Troofers dupe people into supporting them by highlighting relatively non-controversial questions, and before you know it, everybody's saying you're one of the nutbars. I'd have to look back at Begley's moderation of the NY 2004 event and see what he was saying at that time to see if he's just butt-covering here.

I've always liked Begley; his performance as Victor Erlich in St. Elsewhere was terrific and he's one of those rare environmentalists who really does make serious efforts to reduce his carbon footprint, unlike Al "$10,000 utility bill" Gore.

Charlie Sheen Gets 20 Minutes With the President

No, he didn't. This is just a fantasy post by Charlie. Predictably, he focuses on the NORAD issue:

CS – You’ll notice sir on page one of the dossier dated August of ‘06 from the Washington Post, the statements of John Farmer, senior council to the 9/11 commission, his quote stating, “I was shocked how different the truth was from the way it was described.”

PBO – (as he glances down at the report, almost inaudible) …. um hmm….

CS – He goes on to further state “The [NORAD Air Defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years….”

Aside from that, it's the usual melange of factoids, like Willie Brown was warned not to fly, Mineta describing the Cheney neck whip, Bellone and DeMasi found the black boxes at the WTC, explosions, Barbara Olsen's phone calls, etc.

Update: If you thought the gullible Troofers posting on that thread were funny, check out the firestorm that went on at the Prison Planet Forum when the disclaimer was added (see around page 8).

Dylan's Other New Film

Obviously we're covering Loose Change 9-11 An American Coup a lot around here, but Dylan's also going to be featured in this film being released on Saturday as well:



Wow. Just wow. A fictionalized 9-11 Troof film that's even more offensive than the "documentaries".

Loose Change and My Lai

I watched Loose Change: an American Coup recently, and although the production values are improved, I found it rather boring. Much of the problem is the first 15 or so minutes are nothing but a montage of bad historical events without anything tying them together. One example is a short clip on the My Lai massacre where a platoon of troops under Lieutenant William Calley shot up a village of Vietnamese.

The film never explains its relevance, although I am guessing it is there to repeat the conspiracy theorist belief that US troops are just mindless drones who will commit any amoral act simply because they are told to. This fails on several levels though, first of all because this was not a planned act, but rather a case where a poorly led unit got caught up in the "bloodlust" as it were. Secondly, this horrible incident also shows how hard it is for a massive conspiracy to succeed.

Yes, in any group of people you will find those who will commit heinous actions, whether for money, power, or no particular reason at all. You will, however, also find people who will do anything they can to prevent this from happening, even at the risk of their own lives. The problem with a large conspiracy is you really have no way of knowing who is who ahead of time. There is no SAT score for loyal corrupted minions.

To make my point in regards to My Lai, there is the case of Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson Jr. As a CW3 myself, I have known about his story for quite a while now, and he is regarded as a hero among the army community.

Mr Thompson and his crew came upon US troops killing civilians at the village of My Lai on 16 March 1968.

He put his helicopter down between the soldiers and villagers, ordering his men to shoot their fellow Americans if they attacked the civilians.

"There was no way I could turn my back on them," he later said of the victims.

Mr Thompson, a warrant officer at the time, called in support from other US helicopters, and together they airlifted at least nine Vietnamese civilians - including a wounded boy - to safety.

He returned to headquarters, angrily telling his commanders what he had seen. They ordered soldiers in the area to stop shooting.

These are the stories you will never hear about in a Loose Change movie.

Van Jones Reactions

Predictably, the fruitloops see a conspiracy to put them down just when (insert impending 9-11 Troof breakthrough here).

BTW, I find the the timing of this revelation (that Jones signed the petition), right before the 9/11 anniversary, really suspicious.

I've gone to many media comment sections to read the reactions to the Van jones resignation- and it's nasty. I've never read so many racist, hateful comments, generated in such a short amount of time. It seems the shock troops were organized to do the greatest amount of damage to the Truth Movement, Obama, and environmental progress.

It is my personal speculation that the smear campaign against Jones was designed to hit the news just prior to September 11th in order to denegrate 9/11 Truth. The "black ops media" wanted to throw a first punch, just like the National Geographic first strike.

Ah, but some see the eternal silver lining:

This event is going to force more people to look at the facts. I've concluded that now. It is an opportunity to discuss this in various environments, in which previously, it would be impossible, with raging denial the result. Every time I've brought it up at a particular blog I frequent, I've encountered the wall of denial. Despite the many many links I'd left to all who scoff at my remarks. The Left leaning ones, were particularly heartbreaking to denounce me. However, now, the blog I engage in conversation, and debate with, the Lefties are now seeing things with a new light.

That may be. Perhaps the oddest reaction comes from uber-left blogger Jane Hamsher, who wonders what the fuss was all about:

Now he's been thrown under the bus by the White House for signing his name to a petition expressing something that 35% of all Democrats believed as of 2007 -- that George Bush knew in advance about the attacks of 9/11.

Say it loud, say it proud, Jane!

Loose Change 9-11 An America Coup: Barry Jennings Interview

Barry Jennings and Mr Hess, two of the men who were stranded in WTC-7 for several hours on 9-11, come in for a bunch of attention in Loose Change 9-11 An American Coup. Here are transcripts of what they have to say in the movie. The first two quotes are from interviews that they gave on 9-11; the final one is an interview Jason Bermas did with Jennings.

Hess: Yes I was, I was, I was up in the Emergency Management Center on the 23rd floor and when all the power went out in the building, another gentleman and I walked down to the 8th floor, where there was an explosion and we were trapped on the 8th floor with smoke—thick smoke—all around us for about an hour and a half. But the NY Fire Department, as terrific as they are, just came and got us out.

Jennings: Well, me and Mr Hess, the corporation counsel, were on the 23rd floor, I told him we gotta get out of here. We started walking down the stairs we made it to the 8th floor, big explosion, blew us back into the 8th floor, and I turned to Hess I said, “This is it. We’re dead, not going to make it out of here. I took a fire extinguisher and I bust a window out. That’s when this gentleman this gentleman here heard my cries for help.

Barry Jennings: Hi. My name is Barry Jennings. Um. I'm 52 years old. Um, I've worked for for 32 years in one location. Basically, that's it. I'm married. Father of 4.

It’s very funny, I was on my way to work, traffic was excellent, I received a call, a small Cessna had hit the World Trade Center. I was asked to go and man the Office of Emergency Management at the World Trade Center 7 on the 23rd floor. As I arrived there, there were police all in the lobby. They showed me the way to the elevator, we got up to the 23rd floor. Me and Mr. Hess who I didn't know was Mr. Hess at the time. We got to the 23rd floor, we couldn't get in. We had to go back down. Then, security and police took us to the freight elevators. When they took us back up, and we did get in.

Upon arriving into the OEM EOC, we noticed that everybody was gone. I saw coffee that was on the desk. Still smoke was still coming up the coffee. I saw half-eaten sandwiches. And only me and Mr. Hess was up there. After I called several individuals, one individual told me that um, to leave and to leave right away.

Mr Hess came running back in. He said: "We’re the only ones up here. We gotta get outta of here!"

He found a stairwell. When we reached the eighth, uh, the sixth floor, the landing that we were standing on, gave way. There was an explosion. And the landing gave way.
And when, I was left there hanging. I had to climb back up. And now I had to walk back up the eighth floor. After getting to the eighth floor, everything was dark. It was dark and it was very, very hot. Very hot. I asked Mr Hess to test the phones as I took a fire extinguisher and broke out the windows. Once I broke out the windows I could see outside below me, I saw, um, police cars on fire, buses on fire, I looked one way, the building was there, I look the other way it was gone.

I was trapped in there for several hours. I was trapped in there when both buildings came down. The firefighters came, they came to the window cause I was going to come out on the fire hose, I didn’t want to stay there it was too hot, I was going to come out on the fire hose, they came to the window, they started yelling, do not do that, it won’t hold you. And then they ran away. See I didn’t know what was going on. That’s when the first tower fell. When they started running, the first tower was coming down. I had no way of knowing that. Then I saw them come back. Now I saw them come back with more concern on their faces. And they ran away again. The second tower fell. So as they turned and ran the second time, the guy said “Don’t worry, we’ll be back for you.” And they did come back, this time they came back with ten firefighters. And they kept asking, “Where are you? We don’t know where you are.” I said I was on the north side of the building because when I was on the stairs I saw, north side.

All this time, I’m hearing all types of explosions. All this time I’m hearing explosions. And I’m thinking maybe it’s the buses that were on fire, the cars on fire, I don’t see no, you know. But I’m still hearing these explosions. When they finally got to us, and they took us down to what, what they, they, uh, called the lobby. 'cause I asked them, when we got down there, I said: "Where are we?" He said: "This was the lobby." And I said: "You gotta be kidding me!" Total ruins. Total ruins. Now keep in mind, when I came in here, lobby had nice escalators, it was a huge lobby. And for me to see what I saw, unbelievable.

And the firefighter that took us down, kept saying, do not look down. And I kept saying “Why?” “Do not look down.” And you’re stepping over people, and you know you can feel when you’re stepping over people. Took us out through a hole, that the, I don’t know who made this hole, in this wall, that’s how they got us out. They took us out through a hole in the wall, to safety. As they were taking me out, one firefighter had fallen, I believe he was having a heart attack, but before that, this big giant police officer came to me. And he says, "You have to run!" I said, "I can't run. My knees are swollen." He said, "You'll have to get on your knees and crawl then.” He said, “Because we have reports of more explosions." And that's when I started crawling. And I saw this guy fall behind me. His comrade came to his aid, and dragged him to safety. Um, I was looking for an ambulance, for my knees and at that time they told me you gotta walk 20 blocks, to a refuge. Before I got there, Eyewitness News grabbed me and started interviewing me. And that’s basically it. (End)

Now there are some obvious problems reconciling the accounts. Hess quite clearly states that he and Jennings were in the OEM when the power went out in the building; this indicates that the time was right around 9:59, as the power went out in WTC-7 (and much of lower Manhattan) when the South Tower collapsed. Jennings claims to have already poked out the windows and attracted the attention of the firemen at that time. It seems clear to me that Jennings has the times confused, that it was when the South Tower collapsed that they tried to evacuate, but in the darkness it took them about a half-hour to get down 17 flights of stairs, when the North Tower collapsed, providing the big explosion Jennings describes.

There are other problems. It never made much sense for me for the fireman to say "Don't look down," if they're stepping over bodies, surely you'd be more likely to trip and fall. Rather it would seem logical to say something like "Be careful where you step." And does it make any sense to tell someone who can't run because of swollen knees to crawl? Or for him to obey that suggestion? If the objective is to get out of there as quickly as possible, walking is surely faster than crawling?

Of course, there are deeper problems with the story; in his BBC interview last summer, Jennings specifically denied mentioning stepping over bodies; unless Dylan is a master at voice-morphing that seems to be untrue.

My conclusion? Jennings probably elaborated on his story over the years, making it more dramatic. Given a chance to tell his tale to the Loose Change boys, he pulls out all the stops. When the BBC comes calling and he realizes that there are real problems with the anecdote as he told it to LC, he denies it. That seems to me to be the most parsimonious explanation.

Of course to the "Troofers" Occam's razor would say that the NWO got to Jennings before the BBC interview, but afterwards they realized that Dylan had the tape of him talking about walking over bodies and they decided he had to be snuffed.

Van Thrown Under the Bus; Troofers Mystified

Van Jones resigned yesterday after his Trooferism became an issue.

Jones issued two public apologies in recent days, one for signing a petition that questioned whether Bush administration officials "may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war" and the other for using a crude term to describe Republicans in a speech he gave before joining the administration.

His one-time involvement with the Bay Area radical group Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement (STORM), which had Marxist members and leanings, had also become an issue. And on Saturday his advocacy on behalf of death-row inmate Mumia Abu-Jamal, who was convicted of shooting a Philadelphia police officer in 1981, threatened to grow as a fresh point of controversy.

Hilariously, the "Truthers" can't figure out why his 9-11 nuttery was an issue.

It is very telling how the MSM is dealing with this. I haven't seen one mention of the fact that Jones is entitled to his own opinions or that there might be something legitimate to these questions.

Others question the timing:

To have this story become so huge, an Obama appointee resigning because of supporting "9/11 conspiracy theories", on a Sunday when everyone will read it in the paper, on the week of the 8th Anniversary, to me, smacks of the wave of attacks that came on the 5th Anniversary, with Bush himself noting the "conspiracy theorists" ominously in a speech -- another strong-arm effort to turn away anyone with hopes of a career in anything that matters ever supporting "9/11 conspiracy theories".

Perhaps the nanothermite paper has made a dent. This is the first really anti-9/11 truth effort of the new administration.

Excuse me? How is this some anti-9-11 Truth plot by Obama? In fact, it's Obama's political opponents who are using this against him.

So, What's the Latest With NYC-CAN?

I'm hearing crickets from all the usual suspects which certainly indicates that the news is going to be hilarious when it finally hits.

Van Jones: I Am Not A Truther-American

I'm willing to let him slide by with this excuse.

In a statement issued Thursday evening Jones said of "the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever."

He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition. An administration source said Jones says he did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name.

That's generally not a good idea, but the guy was a nobody back in 2004, so I'm inclined to give him a little slack. I can appreciate that with other things he's said the political types may not agree here.

Update: Gateway Pundit points out that Jones was involved with some of the very early Troofers, including being a part of Carol Brouillet's original march to Diane Feinstein's office. However, this is a little trickier than the petition (which was clearly objectionable). Look at the statement Jones was signing back in 2002:

Tuesday, January 8th, 2002, at noon at Justin Herman Plaza, people will gather to march up Market Street to the office of Senator Feinstein (at Post St.) where a delegation will meet with the Senator's staff to raise their concerns over the "War on Terrorism." They will demand that the Senate launch an inquiry or hearings of the events of 9-11, and the U.S. government's international and domestic response.

Nothing really objectionable there. Later on they do get into some elements of Trooferism:

Who created, trained and funded the Al Qaeda Network? What is the relationship between Bin Laden, his family and the Bush family and the Carlyle Group? Why were no fighter planes dispatched to intercept the four hijacked planes on September 11h , in violation of standard procedures? Who actually was in control of the "hijacked planes"? What is the U.S. relationship with Pakistan, and especially with its intelligence service, the ISI? Why did the then director of the ISI have $100,000 transferred to the man whom the FBI now calls the ringleader of the Sept. 11th attacks, and why does the U.S. not pursue this question? Did the CIA have foreknowledge of the attack, who tried to profit with put options on American, United, Merrill Lynch stock just before the attack? Why were the FBI told to not investigate the Bin Laden family links in the US? If the CIA met with Bin Laden last July, why didn't they try to arrest him? If the US is serious about ridding the world of terrorism, why do we continue to fund and train terrorists? Why are we bombing Afghanistan, when none of the alleged bombers actually came from there, could there be another reason for our presence in that region, like oil? Is the war against Afghanistan illegal?

That's certainly the type of stuff that Troofers were pushing in 2002, but is it really objectionable back then, prior to the 9-11 Commission?

Update: Krauthammer says he can stand a communist, but not a Troofer:



:)

Update: Ben Smith contacts some of the other signers. Rabbi Michael Lerner says he doesn't remember all of that nonsense:

Lerner emails:

I was asked to sign a letter which I was told had four demands:

As Americans of conscience, we ask for four things:

1. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer
2. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
3. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
4. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry.

I did not authorize my name to be used for all the other stuff that I now see was included surrounding the letter, namely the sponsors of that 911truth.org, and would not have had I been aware that all that stuff was presented in ways that suggested that I agreed with it, and though I do recognize a few of the people I'd consider "nut cases" among the list of signatories, my guess is that most of those who signed were, like me, unaware of the context in which our names would appear.

So it sounds a bit like another Kennebunkport Warning, but Lerner himself is a "nut case"; see here:

“I would not be surprised to learn that some branch of our government conspired either actively to promote or passively to allow the attack on 9/11,” Lerner wrote in an essay published in the new book, “9/11 and American Empire: Christians, Jews, and Muslims Speak Out.” Lerner added that he would also not be surprised if it turned out that the attacks were not the result of a government conspiracy.

“I am agnostic on the question of what happened on 9/11,” he wrote in his essay for the book, which includes articles by other contributors arguing that a government conspiracy was behind the September 11 attacks. “As other authors in this collection have shown, there are huge holes in the official story and contradictions that suggest that we do not know the whole story.”

Update V: The Troofers at 9-11 Truth dot org respond:

As the eighth anniversary of 9/11 approaches, what doesn't make sense to us is that media outlets choose to impugn the character of the signatories rather than carry out your responsibility as watchdogs to call attention to the as yet unanswered questions raised in the 2004 statement. Five years later, we challenge you to finally print those same unanswered questions and pursue their answers with the same vigor with which you pursue the signatories.

They also claim the petition as posted was the one Jones signed:

For readers' convenience, following is the actual Truth Statement signed onto by Van Jones in 2004, currently being discussed in the media.

David Ray Grifter On the National Geographic Special

David Ray Griffin appeared on Jack Blood's radio show discussing the recent National Geographic special, and (what else) pimping yet another 9/11 conspiracy book, this one on World Trade Center 7. The list of moronic things he mentions are too great to list, here are a few highlights, and I am using the word loosely. Starting at 15 minutes, he now invents new explosive devices:

And then another factor, if you are going to take thermite or thermate to melt steel, you have got to turn it into a shaped charge. And that's discussed in all of our writing.

It is? I have never heard of it. A shaped charge is by definition an explosive. He is criticising National Geographic for confusing incendiaries and explosives, and then he takes thermite, an incendiary, and says that all of their writings discuss how it is used as an explosive. Yeah... OK...

From 22 minutes in:

Griffin: Thirdly, the steel in the towers was insulated, and it was guaranteed for up to 2 or 3 hours of protection. They had a simple little piece of steel with no protection. They will tell us "Oh the planes knocked the protection off" well even if they did that would have been only on about...

Blood: Something nobody knows by the way.

Griffin: Yeah, but even if it were...

Blood: Even if it were all knocked off all the things perfectly, it was all completely exposed steel, it is still not a worthy experiment.

Griffin: But I say, even if you allow that it was all knocked of on 5 floors, you still have another 105 floors (laughter) where the insulation is perfectly intact.

Words fail me

A minute or so later:

Even if you did have steel columns and beams that started lose strength, you would have the building start to sag and lean to one side maybe. Floors start to droop down. No, you got a building that's absolutely solid. Absolutely still and then all of a sudden it collapses.

WHAT?! Have any of you morons actually read the NIST report? The whole collapse was started by those "drooping floors". They even have pictures!

Loose Change 9-11 An American Coup Review: Part I

I obtained a "screener" copy of the new film from a media source who will go unnamed. In general, the film is something of a retreat to LCII, in that it goes back to pushing conspiratorial interpretations of Flight 77 and Flight 93, two aspects of 9-11 nuttery that were downplayed in LCFC. It's a lot to go through in one sitting, although fortunately most of the conspiracy theory stuff we've covered in the past.

Daniel Sunjata's narration is generally an improvement over Dylan's nasal twang, but it does not improve the "skeptical" comments that are sprinkled throughout the film; for those you really do need the snarky, kid-voice.

Here's my basic outline of the film:

Reichstag Fire
Pearl Harbor
Operation Paper Clip
Manhattan Project—Compartmentalization
Nuremberg Trials
JFK Assassination
Gulf of Tonkin
My Lai
WTC Construction
PNAC
9-11 Commission
Bin Laden denies responsibility
Fatty Bin Laden tape
Pre-2004 election video of Bin Laden
2006 Bin Laden tape
Hijackers not devout Muslims—drinking, lap dances, and hookers
Collins information about Hanjour
Able Danger
Atta attempt to get a loan for crop-dusting
Al-Ghamdi had flights scheduled for after 9-11
67 previous intercepts within 10 minutes
No prediction of airplanes into the buildings
Plane into Pentagon Drill too unrealistic
Amalgam Virgo
Haitian AIDS patient to fly airplane into Tindall AFB
OBL on cover of Amalgam Virgo plan
FBI has no records of this game
Wargames on 9-11
Booker Elementary—Bush saw first strike. Stayed at Booker despite being a target
Vigilant Guardian, Inputs into the screens.
Global Guardian?
Northern Vigilance
Pentagon
All Flight 77 hijackers set off metal detectors.
Flight 77 unusually light
Suspicious people on the plane, defense, and other government
Squawk hijack code not given
Hanjour should have dived into the top of the Pentagon.
Flight controllers thought it was a military plane.
Section hit was lightly occupied, recently reinforced. Important budget information lost.
No visible damage from the wings
Titanium engines.
No serial numbers.
No impact damage to the lawn
No videos show 757
The exit hole in C Ring is not explained
Mineta—50,30,10
Collapse of South Tower, 10 Seconds
North Tower collapse 10 seconds
WTC-7 collapse
Other fires
One Meridian Plaza
Lots of stuff in here recycled from earlier versions
Path of greatest resistance
NIST report
Not modelled after initiation
No tests for explosive residue
Jeanette McKinlay—weird music
Jones—red and gray chips
Red=aluminum and iron oxide
Carbon, Oxygen, Silicon, Aluminum and Iron. Carbon is in superthermite. Carbon gives explosive force to thermite.
Says a lot of energy released and explodes.
Nano thermite? Iron microspheres? Wait a minute!
Suddenly they find the iron microspheres.
Freefall speed—10 seconds
Concrete dustified
Molten metal exceeding 2000 F
Fires did not get put out until December
Need to sever core columns
Smoke at base of South Tower
Squibs (similar to earlier versions)
Turner Construction—ties to NIST and Bush
Fireproofing work on the North and South Tower.
Marvin Bush—Securacom
Jones: How did they use nanothermite; I can’t explain everything.
Debris shipped overseas and sold.
Bill Manning Fire Engineering mag complained.
Flight 93 "allegedly" crashes
Debris 6 miles away
Cockpit separated?
No jet fuel found in wells in area
Mint condition bandanna, Driver’s licenses.
WTC-7
OEM
Test status of fire alarm system that morning.
Freefall speed
Steel shipped off
Sulfidation
NIST-WTC-7
105-foot freefall
Barry Jennings and Michael Hess
Death of Barry Jennings
WTC-7 barely damages surrounding buildings
Smedley Butler reveals plot of a coup against FDR. FDR later makes deal with plotters to stay in power.
Appeal for new investigation.

Those are, of course just broad-brush impressions. Under the Reichstag Fire incident, which leads off the film, Dylan claims that historians now believe that the Nazis secretly entered the basement of the building and dowsed it with gasoline, and that Van Der Lubbe ignited the fire with his shirt. But other historians believe that the Nazis were caught by surprise by the Reichstag fire and actually worried that it was the anticipated revolt by the communists. Here's a terrific first-hand account of the blaze by a British reporter:

I am sure that he meant this seriously and was not just putting on an act. Both Hitler and Göring then still feared the possibility of a Communist coup. With six million votes at the last elections and a large number of adherents in the trade unions the Communists were still a formidable power. And they had in the past tried to capture power by coups - just as the Nazis had.

Dylan also claims that Hitler and Goring stopped by the Reichstag fire and executed some communists that same night. This is a new claim on me; Van Der Lubbe was indeed executed months later after a trial, but three other communists who were charged in the case were found not guilty, and I have found no other indication that anybody else was summarily executed.

There are a few claims that I'm going to have to bone up on. One is that there were reports that the cockpit detached from the rest of Flight 93. Steven Jones claims that after they researched the red and grey chips, a fellow scientist suggested that they search for iron microspheres; it's certainly my impression that the iron microspheres came up earlier than the red and grey chips in Jones' "work".

On the need to sever the core columns, I never tire of pointing out that if the core columns were severed at the bottom, then how did the "spire" (those same core columns) remain standing for a few seconds after the rest of the building collapsed.

In a lot of ways, Loose Change 9-11 An American Coup is really Loose Change II Recut Director's Cut. Final Cut seemed to back away from the "No-Big Boeing at the Pentagon" theories, while American Coup highlights them again. Ditto with Flight 93. The Barry Jennings' interview is as bad as John Schroeder's for confused timelines; I'll have to put together a transcript for that.

Obama's Green Jobs Czar a Truther

Van Jones has been in the news lately for his comment early this year that Republicans are a**holes. Turns out, the Vanster's also a 9-11 Truther (see signature #46 on the petition).

Hat Tip: The Good Lt. at JREF. Further coverage of this at the Jawa Report and at Gateway Pundit.

Update: Manny points out that Jones' initial take on 9-11 was pretty similar to Ward Churchill's:

Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement (STORM), the revolutionary group formed by self-described "communist" and "rowdy black nationalist" Van Jones, held a vigil in Oakland, California, "mourning the victims of U.S. imperialism around the world" on the night after Sept. 11, 2001.

However, this does not mean that he didn't become a "Truther" later; most of the more famous kooks--for example, Richard Gage, Eric Hufschmid, and even David Ray Griffin--weren't 0-day conspiracy theorists.

A Toast to Kevin Barrett

The "Strawman" Strawman

It is quite common for truthers to use, or rather misuse, the strawman fallacy whenever anyone criticizes them, on the basis that there is no such thing as a universally held belief in the conspiracy community. Normally though, they at least manage to limit themselves to beliefs which are not at the core of their own theories.

In this light, check out Steven Jones complaining about yesterday's National Geographic show:

Robert,
Bags of commercial thermite set against a steel column -- what a pathetic "experiment." Not anywhere close to representing my views, as you must know, from our discussion about the red/gray chips and the crucial distinction between ordinary thermite and super-thermite! What a terrible and unfair straw-man joke you are evidently trying to pull.

Why can't you get a sample of super-thermite? I think you can, if you will actually try. Or are you like NIST which refuses to look?

Hello? Calling Dr. Jones! You spoke for years about thermite and/or thermate as the core of your theories. Remember all the talk about tons of molten steel pouring out of the towers, the photographs supposedly showing the glowing red hot beams, the pools of molten iron flowing like lava. All of this you claimed was caused by incendiaries, not explosives. You even wrote a 47 page paper about this, which is still available on your website. Are you now claiming that this entire paper is invalid and is a "strawman" argument? Although actually, if so, that would be one of the few things I could agree with him on....