1000th Clown Joins Gage's Circus
Well, that's it then, they've won. Because 772 dribbling idiots isn't quite critical mass, nor is 999. But there's magic in four digits of buffoons on a petition. Of course, that it took them 2-1/2 years longer than projected is a bit of a disappointment, I suppose, and that they've probably got 100 phony names will no doubt prove embarrassing.
Still, congratulations are in order. Great job, Richard! We look forward to the grand celebration of your 2000th senile architect in 2021!
Labels: Architects and Engineers, Richard Gage
posted by Pat @ 8:47 AM
153 comments
153 Comments:
Mr. Gage, isn't it time for another conference call? RAMOOOONNNNE!
He was only able to get to 1000 because somewhere along the line he lowered the bar from counting actual architects and engineers to counting "architectural and engineering professionals". The latter more inclusive group includes people who supposedly have degrees in architecture or engineering but are unlicensed and/or people who work for As or Es in some sort of lesser capacity. The group has only about600 licensed As & Es
Is that Krazee, the Balless Wonder Klown™?
somewhere along the line he lowered the bar
There was never any bar. Go read the hilarious JREF thread about getting obviously phony names added to the AE911 roster... some of which are STILL listed as members, two and a half years later.
As I pointed out over at JREF, 1000 engineers is a fraction of the proportion of ASCEs 130,000+ members that would be mentally ill given the incidence of serious mental illness among the general population.
Statistically speaking, Gages gaggle of idiots can be plausibly written off as having bats in their improbably fire-resistant belfries.
There was never any bar. Go read the hilarious JREF thread about getting obviously phony names added to the AE911 roster... some of which are STILL listed as members, two and a half years later.
I hope Professor Berevtov Szanitiy is still doing valuable research for Gage.
or people who work for As or Es in some sort of lesser capacity.
So if someone cleans toilets at an architectural or engineering firm, can they sign up?
I remember the conference call that Troy crashed. Supposedly they had 700-800 "members" at the time and barely half a dozen people were on the conference call (not counting the crashers). You'd think if these guys really believed their movement had uncovered evidence the US government deliberately orchestrated the mass murder of its own citizens they'd be doing this 24/7 and there would be large numbers of "members" at each and every event. Yet in twoofer world, such important work is carried out by less than 1 percent of the "membership."
Troy really did crash,eh Fellas?
Don't forget being an architect is more of a esthetics thing. Designing how buildings look, ergonomics, traffic flow, that sort of thing. It would be an advantage if they did have deeper understanding of structural requirements, but that sort of thing is the structural engineers job.
Gages obvious lack of understating of physics shown by his box drop demo shows why he is not a designer of anything over a story or two.
I know many automotive "designers" including the guy who designed the latest Ford GT-40 Super Car. And he sure in no engineer.
Yet in twoofer world, such important work is carried out by less than 1 percent of the "membership."
And Brian Good babbles about their membership numbers endlessly, as if it's evidence of something.
1,000?
Wow, the empire is definitely on the run!
lol!!!
It's all good, for if it follows the usual truther reality, this high point (for want of a better expression) will be followed by the inevitable (and spectacular) crash.
If we're lucky, it may even be on video.
Having just listened to Billy Birmingham and some of his '12th Man' routines (only cricket lovers would know who he is), I have a fair inkling that AE911Twoof is in for a surge of members from the subcontinent...
Yup, a 'surge' of paranoid delusionalists!
I know one already - he reckons UFOs hide behind clouds.
Oh, I suspect that there was a bar involved at some point. Probably one with dollar shots during Happy Hour.
So how many independent licensed architects and engineers can you guys name who endorse the NIST report?
Every time I raise this challenge all I get is half a dozen, and they turn out to be allied with firms that have NIST contracts.
So let's have it. How many independent licensed architects and engineers can you guys name who endorse the NIST report?
Membership of American Society of Civil Engineers: 130,000+
Membership of AE911T: 1,000
Do the math, snug.bug.
SoT, how many ASCE members have endorsed the NIST report?
"SoT, how many ASCE members have endorsed the NIST report?"
The same number of biologist who have taken the time to go on the record and state Bigfoot is not real.
Basically assclown - anyone that doesn't become part of that AE911 bullshit endorses the NIST report by default.
SoT, how many ASCE members have endorsed the NIST report?
How many times do I have to explain to you, Brian, that serious professionals don't spend their time refuting the ignorant lunacy of people like Gage?
I like your new screen name, BTW. It goes well with Petgoat, punxsutawneybarney, and contrivance.
Was Haiti HAARPed?
Oh, Yes, Prepare to start hearing this from the conspiracy theorist.
You have Pat Robertson’s idiocy about Haiti’s deal with the devil, Moron Rush Limbaugh’s insinuation that Obama is exploiting the catastrophe to up his creditability with darker skin blacks. and not to be left out the tin foil hat brigade has to blame the US for creating earthquakes.
SoT, how many ASCE members have endorsed the NIST report?
All of them (except for Gages 1,000). Unless they specifically state otherwise, any engineer who hasn't said anything about the NIST report is automatically on our side by default.
How many physicists have endorsed the theory of gravity? How many biochemists and toxicologists have confirmed that cyanide is poison?
By your reasoning, it should be safe for you to guzzle cyanide and jump off bridges.
"Unless they specifically state otherwise, any engineer who hasn't said anything about the NIST report is automatically on our side by default."
An asinine assumption. Whom do they have to say it to? Pat Curley? Sword of Twoof? Not very sharp, are we?
An asinine assumption. Whom do they have to say it to? Pat Curley? Sword of Twoof? Not very sharp, are we?
Yet another desperate straw clung to by the "truth" movement.
Since you're the one so interested in this, why don't you start contacting everyone in ASCE and ask them? I don't care to waste my time on this pointless exercise any more than I'd care to ask every biologist on the planet whether they think AIDS is caused by a virus (there are plenty of conspiracy theorists who say otherwise).
Many, many lulz over at http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/01/missing_you.html#comments
So after speaking for ALL of the ASCE folks, New Yorker wants an anonymous internet poster to verify that their opinions match his. I see. Is this 'debunking'?
Why not discuss cold, hard, facts, instead of appealing to popularity and then asking me to verify it?
Oh yeah, because you, Sword of Flaccidity, and the rest of Curley's Cowards have nothing else. Enjoy your ignorance, lads.
[From a previous thread]:
"I thought I already told you, the NWO created a micro-black hole right under WTC 7 at the moment of collapse. That's what caused the collapse at "gravitational acceleration".
This is New Yorker's explanation of the acceleration during the 7's descent. Laughably stupid as it is, it's more than Sword of Truth, Pat Curley, James Bennett, Mark Roberts, Ryan Mackey, or any of the other clowns have offered. 'Debunking' at its finest.
So after speaking for ALL of the ASCE folks, New Yorker wants an anonymous internet poster to verify that their opinions match his. I see. Is this 'debunking'?
You're the one claiming that there's doubt about the NIST report among engineers. Go prove it. You morons really need to learn what "burden of proof" means.
Why not discuss cold, hard, facts, instead of appealing to popularity and then asking me to verify it?
OK, so could you tell Gage how having 1000 members is meaningless since popularity (correctly) has nothing to do with it?
Please, let's talk some facts. Please list some facts that prove that 9/11 was an inside job.
Oh yeah, because you, Sword of Flaccidity, and the rest of Curley's Cowards have nothing else. Enjoy your ignorance, lads.
Right, we have nothing else. So, since you've got all the facts on your side, you're going to present them in a court of law soon, right?
This is New Yorker's explanation of the acceleration during the 7's descent. Laughably stupid as it is, it's more than Sword of Truth, Pat Curley, James Bennett, Mark Roberts, Ryan Mackey, or any of the other clowns have offered. 'Debunking' at its finest.
So you're going to be presenting your argument about gravitational acceleration in court soon?
Pat, it appears that your criterion for the success or failure of a statement is the number of people supporting it. Well, A&E for 911 Truth is now 1,000 strong. How many have you got on your side?
" Nothing New, Yorker said...
So after speaking for ALL of the ASCE folks, New Yorker wants an anonymous internet poster to verify that their opinions match his. I see. Is this 'debunking'?"
No, it's pointing out that you're a fucking elbow licking retard.
" Gnat Curley said...
[From a previous thread]:
"I thought I already told you, the NWO created a micro-black hole right under WTC 7 at the moment of collapse. That's what caused the collapse at "gravitational acceleration".
This is New Yorker's explanation of the acceleration during the 7's descent. Laughably stupid as it is, it's more than Sword of Truth, Pat Curley, James Bennett, Mark Roberts, Ryan Mackey, or any of the other clowns have offered. 'Debunking' at its finest."
No, that him pointing out that you're a fucking elbow licking retard.
"Boris Epstein said...
Pat, it appears that your criterion for the success or failure of a statement is the number of people supporting it. Well, A&E for 911 Truth is now 1,000 strong. How many have you got on your side?"
Haow many snae A & Es are there?
Take that number, ans subtract 1,000.
'Mkay, boron?
For those elbow licking retards who weren't paying attention: 129,000 is more than 1,000.
Pat, it appears that your criterion for the success or failure of a statement is the number of people supporting it.
No, that's the "truthers" standard of success. That's why Gage puffs this up. That's why Brian Good babbles endlessly about it.
Well, A&E for 911 Truth is now 1,000 strong.
Does that include Dr. Berevtov Szanitiy?
Roman, New Yorker -- equating non-endorsement of the NIST report with non-denunciation of the Bigfoot reports is illogical.
SwoT, claiming silence constitutes endorsement is dishonest. That's like saying most people in the USA thought the war in Iraq was a good idea because only a a few thousand demonstrated against it. Physicists endorse the theory of gravity when they teach it in college classes and write about it in textbooks.
I don't see any Dr. Berevtov Szanitiy on AE's roster.
Roman, New Yorker -- equating non-endorsement of the NIST report with non-denunciation of the Bigfoot reports is illogical.
False. It's exactly the same. You just have no idea how to compose a logical thought, Petgoat.
SwoT, claiming silence constitutes endorsement is dishonest. That's like saying most people in the USA thought the war in Iraq was a good idea because only a a few thousand demonstrated against it.
False.
I don't see any Dr. Berevtov Szanitiy on AE's roster.
Seek professional help, Petgoat.
Until I see an actual list with architects and engineers endorsing the NIST report, it's a 9/11 lie movement fantasy.
This list must contain signatures. Real names. Where is it?
Your wish that all ASCE members by default support the NIST report is just that: a wish.
You guys should start a company providing imaginary petitions. You can call it "Opt-Out Petioning, Inc", how's that? Just think how many organ donors you could recruit. They signed their organs away but they just don't know it yet!
So why aren't any of you guys at it yet? Can't you just get it done? What miserable excuses can you additionally come up with? Where are the signed statements? Need I remind you that you don't need to be a 'truther' to reject the NIST report? Does Ron Craig endorse the NIST report? Does Frank Greening endorse the NIST report? How about Zdenek Bazant?
Nice pictorial defamation of Richard Gage. Note that no such photoshoppery is required for Curley: he looks like a shriveled alcohol addict troll all by himself. =D
Denouncing big foot reports is exactly the same as denouncing NIST reports.
(The trick is to use positive statements. Non-denunciation nor non-endorsement equal their opposites)
You can always tell the things that make the "truthers" see reality despite their willful blindness. They always get really upset when it happens. See anonymous above.
Anonymous scribbles, "...Until I see an actual list with architects and engineers endorsing the NIST report, it's a 9/11 lie movement fantasy."
The American Society of Civil Engineers writes, "...Founded in 1852, the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) represents more than 147,000 members of the civil engineering profession worldwide, and is America's oldest national engineering society. ASCE's vision is to position engineers as global leaders building a better quality of life."
Source: ASCE: Inside ASCE.
The American Society of Civil Engineers continues, "...The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) released a final report of the findings and recommendations from its building and fire safety investigation of the World Trade Center (WTC) disaster. The report includes 30 recommendation for improving building and fire safety based on the findings of the investigation.
"A draft version of the report was released in June 2005. The final report is available on NIST's website at http://wtc.nist.gov."
Source: ASCE: NIST Releases World Trade Center Collapse Report.
So anonymous, the "American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) represents more than 147,000 members of the civil engineering profession worldwide". Additionally, the American Society of Civil Engineers sourced the NIST Report findings in order to make recommendations "for improving building and fire safety based on the findings of the investigation."
Thus the ASCE represents all 147,000 members and endorses the NIST Report.
Perhaps you can show us a list containing the names of ASCE members who disagree with the NIST Report?
You can't? Then may I suggest that you STFU.
Any questions?
Denouncing big foot reports is exactly the same as denouncing NIST reports.
Right. So "not denouncing" big foot reports is the same as "not denouncing" NIST, which is nothing like expressing support for NIST.
GB, a squib saying that a report exists is not an endorsement.
Anonymous, you f*cking numskul, can you read?
Here's what I wrote:
"...Additionally, the American Society of Civil Engineers sourced the NIST Report findings in order to make recommendations 'for improving building and fire safety based on the findings of the investigation.'"
Why would they use the NIST Report "for improving building and fire safety based on the findings of the investigation" if they didn't endorse the report?
Get back to me "truther" swine, when you can pass a formal examination in elementary logic.
GuitarBill:
Ah! The fallacy of demanding negative proof!
You just cited generic ASCE membership information. So what?
Where is the list of signed endorsements?
Your naive hope does not constitute a mass ASCE member endorsement. Membership does not mean blanket agreement and endorsement of ASCE reports. You know that and I know that.
Make it explicit. Think of how easy it could be, if only you got off your lazy fallacious butt and started petitioning. You have nothing but wishful thoughts, and nothing concrete.
I say all ASCE members disagree with the NIST report. How are you going to prove me wrong? Are you going to project more wishes onto ASCE members?
Until I see an actual list with architects and engineers endorsing the NIST report, it's a 9/11 lie movement fantasy.
How about the NIST report itself, you sniveling turd?
NCSTAR1 lists several pages of named contributors. I counted 313 names. I'd bet that group alone exceeds the combined expertise of Gage's group.
This list must contain signatures. Real names.
Bitch, please. It has been shown many times that Richard Gage performs no verification whatsoever before announcing people "architects and engineers." Go read the JREF thread I linked previously for numerous examples.
Your wish that all ASCE members by default support the NIST report is just that: a wish.
Nobody in the ASCE (or anywhere else) has written a peer-reviewed paper explaining why it's wrong. Until someone does, it is accepted by default. That's how things work in the academic world. Those who publish papers are not required to get the signed approval of every member of the profession. That you think this standard somehow applies to the NIST report proves only your ignorance of academia, and the desperation of your cause.
All you have to do to beat the mean ol' NIST report is put together a paper that passes basic scientific scrutiny. We've been telling Truthers this for years. We're still waiting for anyone to even attempt it. (And no, that "Bentham Journal" shit doesn't count.)
GuitarBill, especially get steaming mad, as you know your pro-NIST signed endorsement list is a pipe dream.
Where is the signed list of engineers and architects specifically endorsing the NIST report?
You should work elections in North Korea!
Anonymous--you ignorant slut. I just proved that the NIST report was used by the ASCE to make "30 recommendation for improving building and fire safety based on the findings of the investigation."
Get it through your thick skull, jackass, the ASCE wouldn't use the NIST Report to make recommendations unless thay endorse the NIST Report. No competent engineer in his or her right mind would source a report where the findings are in dispute.
Got logic, moron?
GuitarBill:
Ahaaa! So all you have to do to invent an imaginary petition with 1000+ imaginary signers is to make some meaningless recommendations!
(The best recommendation would, of course, be to evacuate all steel-framed high-rises nationwide....immediately)
Triterope: so the authors endorse their own report? WOW!! Who would have thought? And then to top it off, you exaggerate their number. LOL!
So, where is that list of signed endorsements? Membership does not equal endorsement.
Right. So "not denouncing" big foot reports is the same as "not denouncing" NIST, which is nothing like expressing support for NIST.
False.
GB, a squib saying that a report exists is not an endorsement.
Stop lying, Petgoat.
Ah! The fallacy of demanding negative proof!
Which is what the ENTIRE "truth" movement is based on....
Make it explicit. Think of how easy it could be, if only you got off your lazy fallacious butt and started petitioning. You have nothing but wishful thoughts, and nothing concrete.
Anyone else see the absurdity of someone who believes his own government murdered 3,000 of its own citizens demanding that those who are skeptical of his claims do his work for him?
What was that quote by George Monbiot again?
I say all ASCE members disagree with the NIST report. How are you going to prove me wrong?
We're not. You've just got to provide some evidence for this assertion. I say you're a child molester. How are you going to prove me wrong?
Anonymous--you toothless, trailer park educated moron. Wrong! We can't produce a list that doesn't exist, because the ASCE doesn't require its members to sign anything as relates to the NIST Report. That said, if any member of the ASCE disputes the findings of the NIST Report, he or she is free to right a paper in opposition to the Report. Thus, you show us one peer reviewed paper written by a member of the ASCE that disputes the findings of the NIST Report.
You can't?
Then may I suggest, once again, that you STFU.
I just want to set the record straight that I left AE911Truth because it's just an ego project for Richard Gage, an abject failure with delusions that he is the next Frank Lloyd Wright.
Typo
Sorry, I need more tea. :)
"...That said, if any member of the ASCE disputes the findings of the NIST Report, he or she is free to write a paper in opposition to the Report."
Anyone else see the absurdity of someone who believes his own government murdered 3,000 of its own citizens demanding that those who are skeptical of his claims do his work for him?
Straw man slash false dilemma rejected. I believe 3000 people were killed by Al Qaeda AND the "government". Same as JFK was killed by Oswald AND the "CIA".
Futhermore, even if I had no theory, or if I wasn't a "truther", you are making a claim ("All ASCE members indivually endorse the NIST report because I want them to and I fantasize about it") therefore the onus probandi is on you.
What was that quote by George Monbiot again?
Is it bigger than a breadbox?
“I began drinking alcohol at the age of thirteen and gave it up in my fifty sixth year; it was like going straight from puberty to a mid-life crisis.”
— Monbiot
GuitarBill, especially get steaming mad, as you know your pro-NIST signed endorsement list is a pipe dream.
Signed endorsements aren't necessary. Engineers who haven't officially stated otherwise support the NISTs conclusions by default.
GuitarBill: oh so now ASCE members can only opt-out of your apparatchik petition if they write a paper? How charming, commissar.
Newsflash: the NIST report wasn't peer reviewed.
"I wish that there would be a peer review of this.... I think all the records that NIST has assembled should be archived. I would really like to see someone else take a look at what they've done; both structurally and from a fire point of view"
— Fire professor / NIST veteran Dr. James Quintiere.
Guess what else he said:
"I think there should be a full airing of the NIST analyses and results with questions raised by the public before an impartial panel judging the completeness and accuracy of their results In other words, peer review with accountability to a national body. That should determine whether further investigation is needed"
Wow... he actually quotemined James Quintiere.
You do know that Dr. Quintiere syas that fire and airplane impacts are the sole cause of the WTC collapses, don't you?
You frakking moron.
"Where is the signed list of engineers and architects specifically endorsing the NIST report?"
Twoooofers™ use magical thinking.
No list, no proof.
"I do believe in spooks, I do believe in spooks, I do believe in spooks" as brian plays with his tail.
Signed endorsements aren't necessary. Engineers who haven't officially stated otherwise support the NISTs conclusions by default.
There is no evidence for your pipe-dream. Your perverse Stalinist fantasies of non-dissent do not dream up these illusory 1000+ petition signers.
A signature is the only evidence individual engineers explicitly endorse the NIST report.
"There is no evidence for your pipe-dream."
Says the conspiracy mongering moron.
"Your perverse Stalinist fantasies of non-dissent do not dream up these illusory 1000+ petition signers."
False.
"A signature is the only evidence individual engineers explicitly endorse the NIST report."
False.
Find someone who has resigned from the organization in protest, you booger eating moron.
"You do know that Dr. Quintiere syas that fire and airplane impacts are the sole cause of the WTC collapses, don't you?"
Apparently in your binary worldview everybody who thinks the NIST reports (and the processes involved in creating them) are flawed is automatically a truther.
False dilemma/straw man argument rejected.
Find someone who has resigned from the organization in protest, you booger eating moron.
(A) Fallacy of demanding negative proof.
(B) False condition. Resignation is not a prerequisite for deprecation.
"Apparently in your binary worldview everybody who thinks the NIST reports (and the processes involved in creating them) are flawed is automatically a truther."
You ARE a Twoooofer™ you retarded marmoset.
"False dilemma/straw man argument rejected."
That's nice, brian.
You retarded marmoset.
"A) Fallacy of demanding negative proof."
No it's not. it's an order for you to use your Mad Google Skillz to find what I told you to find.
"(B) False condition. Resignation is not a prerequisite for deprecation."
It is for an honorable man.
Not that you'd know anything about Honor, brian, since you're a lying, America hating fucktard.
Now get cracking and find what I told you to find.
And come back with an explanation of what "FAE" stands for too.
Chop chop!
Futhermore, even if I had no theory, or if I wasn't a "truther", you are making a claim ("All ASCE members indivually endorse the NIST report because I want them to and I fantasize about it") therefore the onus probandi is on you.
False. You're not very good at this whole burden of proof thing. Perhaps you shouldn't have dropped out of high school?
There is no evidence for your pipe-dream. Your perverse Stalinist fantasies of non-dissent do not dream up these illusory 1000+ petition signers.
Aww, I think the little "truther" is upset!
Apparently in your binary worldview everybody who thinks the NIST reports (and the processes involved in creating them) are flawed is automatically a truther.
No, but the only ones blathering inanely about it here are.
You still haven't provided proof that you're not a child molester, btw.
60+ comments underway.
AE911Truth: >=1000
You: <=0
^^^^^^
It's a tragedy.
I know, it's blue monday today. Huddle in the corner, fight back the post-new year melancholy with some entertaining fiction. Tip: NIST or the brothers Grimm.
It'll comfort your inner child.
"Aww, I think the little "truther" is upset!"
I know, let's take a vote!
Does anyone care?
BTW, I don't think this is Brian. For one, this guy is way too hysterical. Brian has that passive-aggressive tone that only occasionally becomes inflamed (and then he just calls us girls).
Plus, Brian apparently started posting as "Snug Bug" last night.
"It'll comfort your inner child."
Says the insane conspiracy monger.
OH TEH IRONY SHE BURNS SHE BURNS!!!!!!!
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=9
This is the list of experts who contributed to Popular Mechanics debunking 9/11 article. What do we find under "Structural Engineering/Building Collapse" heading?
James Quintiere, Ph.D. professor of engineering, University of Maryland member, NIST advisory committee
I fully stand behind Dr. Quintere, his NIST colleagues and the 147,000 members of the ASCE in their findings that fire and airplane/debris impacts alone caused the collapses on 9/11.
You still haven't provided proof that you're not a child molester, btw.
Hey, I was just fucking with yall! Lighten up!
(Or I will drop you on your head)
I'm copy and pasting something I just posted to the thread on JREF:
Actually, I just had a thought. AE911T, despite having finally hit their 1,000 mark, is actually shrinking!
AE911T has gained roughly 200 members in a year and a half, right? How many engineering students have taken their exams and graduated in that time? Let's be conservative and say it was roughly 1,000* across the US and Canada. That would mean that the engineering community is growing 5 times faster than AE911T, which further means that the percentage of engineers who are AE911T members is in freefall.
Faster than freefall, even. :D
The 1,000 clowns announcement is just not good news for AE911T. Gage may as well have announced that he is closing up ship and leaving town with the money.
Triterope: so the authors endorse their own report? WOW!! Who would have thought?
Not you, apparently.
And then to top it off, you exaggerate their number. LOL!
I counted them. And I said exactly where you can find them. Prove me wrong.
So, where is that list of signed endorsements?
The same place as the list of signed endorsements of everyone who joined AE911 Truth -- nowhere.
Membership does not equal endorsement.
So they're "members" of a report?
GB, the fact that ASCE found some of the fire safety recommendations useful does not mean they endorsed the report.
Participants in the report are not independent endorsers.
You guys are embarrassing your own cause.
New Yorker, it is Brian. His email is public information since he posted with it on several internet sites, it is snug.bug@hotmail.com.
New Yorker, it is Brian. His email is public information since he posted with it on several internet sites, it is snug.bug@hotmail.com.
Oh, OK. He's more hysterical than usual in this thread.
In that case,
60+ comments underway.
AE911Truth: >=1000
You: <=0
Nobody cares, Petgoat.
GB, the fact that ASCE found some of the fire safety recommendations useful does not mean they endorsed the report.
Stop lying, punxsutawneybarney
Participants in the report are not independent endorsers.
Nobody cares, contrivance.
You guys are embarrassing your own cause.
There is no "cause", Brian, there is only reality and fantasy. We inhabit reality, you don't, and that's why you really need to see a psychiatrist.
Participants in the report are not independent endorsers.
Jeezus H. Christ. So the default assumption is that people do not endorse work they contributed to? Seriously?
And Brian, pick a fucking name and stick to it, would you please?
BTW, Brian is babbling away in a dead thread about asymmetric collapses, molten steel, and pulverized concrete.
Ah, it's so entertaining to have his brand of insanity around. Can you call us all girls, Brian? How about denying being Petgoat?
Keep in mind that the insane Debunker Cult forgot to mention that Thomas Eagar isn't even a structural engineer.Hell,they probably don't even know that.
Newsflash: the NIST report wasn't peer reviewed.
So what? If you want to object to its contents, there are channels to follow. Submitting an actual paper to an actual science journal for actual review is just one.
NIST requested input and guidance from citizens throughout the investigation. Furthermore, there is also a "request for correction" procedure that any citizen can use.
With these tools available to them, what did the 9-11 Truth movement contribute? Absolutely nothing. But now that the work is over, and is widely accepted, a bunch of random internet trolls want to argue that the report doesn't count because it does not have the embossed signature of every single person in the science industry.
You want to invalidate the NIST report, get off your fat asses and do it.
But you won't. You never do.
"the insane Debunker Cult"
And Krazee, the Balless Wonder Klown™ throws a changeup.
It's into the outfield, but you still get the Special Olympics medal for trying.
And Thomas Eagar is a materials professor at MIT and infinetly smarter than you, Krazee.
But then flatworms are infinitly smarter that you and your insane Twoooofer™ cohorts.
You want to invalidate the NIST report, get off your fat asses and do it.
But you won't. You never do.
"The great virtue of a fake conspiracy is that it calls on you to do nothing." - George Monbiot
C'mon, you expect Brian, a middle-aged man who can't hold down a janitor's job and lives with his parents to actually do anything that requires getting away from the computer?
Of corse the point is,PornBoy,that Thomas Eagar isn't a structural engineer yet his analysis is taken as the word of God in the Debunker Cult.Half of you thirteen cretins are always gobbling on about the supposed lack of structural engineers,blah blah woof woof.So, a materials scientist is good enough fer ya? Hmmm.Only the sick and rotten minds of your imbecilic Cult could twist the growing amount of building professionals speaking out on the demolitions into some kind of scam!!
Someone inform the sad Canadien that many critiques of the NIST reports have been offered.He's welcome to google,say,Kevin Ryan etal.,Jim Hoffman,etc.etc. Happy learning,ol' Frozen Lobes!!
Kevin Ryan and Jim Hoffman are a stupid joke whose work debunks itself. Also, I'm not Canadian.
Arhoolie, Dr. Eagar's collapse theory (the zipper/pancake theory) has been completely repudiated by NIST. Actually it was challenged by Weidlinger Associates because its suggestion that truss "clips" failed meant that the building was defective. To protect Mr. Silverstein's insurance claims, it had to be shown that the trusses weren't weak at all, that the columns failed.
"the Debunker Cult"
LAther.
Rinse.
Repeat.
Now Krazee is back to his normal "standing on the street corner wearing an incomprehensable sandwich board screaming at the top of his lungs at the passerbys" mode.
Now remember, Krazee, don't let you mind wander - it's far too small to be let out on its own"
PornBoy is so frenzied over the Anthony Shaffer development that he's literally frothing at the mouth.Can someone softly inform him that the NIST reports were Bush Administration reports as they cam out through the Commerce Department,whose Chief is a political appointment.Is he aware of the scandalous applications of "Bush Science" bemoaned around the world?
"Asshoolie said...
PornBoy is so frenzied over the Anthony Shaffer development that he's literally frothing at the mouth."
Who are you talking to, the voices in your head?
"Can someone softly inform him that the NIST reports were Bush Administration reports"
Well, no, they weren't.
"as they cam out through the Commerce Department,"
OMG THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!!!! RUN AWAY RUN AWAY!!!!!111!1!@!!!eleventy!!!1!
"whose Chief is a political appointment."
OMG A POLITICAL APOINTEE WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!!!! RUN AWAY RUN AWAY!!!!!111!1!@!!!eleventy!!!1!
"Is he aware of the scandalous applications of "Bush Science" bemoaned around the world?"
The only moaning we hear around here is you, down in your Mom's basement, playing "Yankee-My-Wankee".
Now go take you meds and have a nice nap, 'mkay?
I love how he still hasn't figured out how utterly nonsensical combining LIHOP and MIHOP is.
"We're gonna bring down the towers with explosives after our terrorist assets crash planes into the buildings. No one will ever find out! muahahahahah"
There's absolutely nothing silly about combining LIHOP with MIHOP. The LIHOP attack provides the patsies. Controlled demolition ensures that the buildings are destroyed, and the distraction of the war games ensure that the airplanes get to their targets -- except flight 93, which is hopelessly behind schedule.
There's absolutely nothing silly about combining LIHOP with MIHOP.
False. They are in direct contradiction.
The LIHOP attack provides the patsies. Controlled demolition ensures that the buildings are destroyed, and the distraction of the war games ensure that the airplanes get to their targets -- except flight 93, which is hopelessly behind schedule.
Of course. And you have plenty of evidence for this, right Petgoat?
Why would they need to completely destroy the buildings? How does that serve the plans of whomever you fools thing is planning this?
I wanna hear his explanation for why "they" needed to bring down the buildings and why simply airliners crashing into buildings isn't enough to justify "their" war plans.
There must be some reason the buildings had to come down completely. One that would justify the risk of getting caught wiring three massive buildings for demolition.
There's absolutely nothing silly about combining LIHOP with MIHOP.
It is not only silly, it is completely fucking bonkers. Monty Python couldn't think up something that screwy.
The LIHOP attack provides the patsies.
Except that the patsies have to attack exactly how you want them to attack. If you rig up the World Trade Center with explosives and the patsies you're "letting" attack crash into the wrong building -- or the World Trade Center at the wrong floor -- the whole thing doesn't really work, does it?
Controlled demolition ensures that the buildings are destroyed
Assuming, again, the people you're "letting" attack in a manner perfectly suited to your conspiracy that they know nothing about. If you rig the 78th floor and Ahmed the Terrorist crashes into the 110th floor (because they couldn't fly, remember) the whole thing doesn't really work, does it?
the distraction of the war games ensure that the airplanes get to their targets
Sure, let's raise the degree of difficulty about 20 more orders of magnitude. Let's coordinate some phony wargames to go with our unpredictable explosives and our "LIHOP" attack that we don't know when or where it's coming.
The whole thing is just so goddamn stupid. Let it go.
Why destroy the buildings? Because undestroyed buildings would have been a symbol of strength, not a symbol of the fragility of civilization. What was needed was a searing public event. A mere plane crash would not be it.
TR, the patsies attack when you want them to attack because you convince them that scheduling the attacks to coincide with the war games will maximize the chances of success, and then you tell them when the war games will happen.
If the planes home in on a radio beacon they'll hit the right floor. If the charges are computer-controlled, you can reprogram the detonation sequence to match the impact floor. You guys have not given this much thought, have you?
The war games aren't phony. There's a lot of evidence for them. The National Reconnaissance Office (satellite reconnaissance) was completely evacuated for a disaster drill.
What makes you think we didn't know when the attacks were coming? All we had to do was follow the guys to the airport!
What was needed was a searing public event. A mere plane crash would not be it.
No, of course not. Plane crashes, especially those hijacked and flown into buildings resulting in hundreds of additional deaths, are not "searing public events". I mean, look at TWA 800 and Pan Am 103. I think everyone forgot about those by the next news cycle!
TR, the patsies attack when you want them to attack because you convince them that scheduling the attacks to coincide with the war games will maximize the chances of success, and then you tell them when the war games will happen.
That's, like, brilliant!
If the planes home in on a radio beacon they'll hit the right floor. If the charges are computer-controlled, you can reprogram the detonation sequence to match the impact floor. You guys have not given this much thought, have you?
C'mon Brian, we've given it plenty of thought. It's just that we didn't do a metric ton of LSD before thinking about it, and that's why we haven't reached the, um, conclusions you have.
The war games aren't phony. There's a lot of evidence for them. The National Reconnaissance Office (satellite reconnaissance) was completely evacuated for a disaster drill.
That's nice.
What makes you think we didn't know when the attacks were coming?
The fact that there's no evidence that we knew they were coming?
Seriously, Brian, watching your thought process in action is truly fascinating. It's amazing how someone of your mental health issues can be walking around free.
OH MAN I knew I'd get a good response. I just wanted to hear him say something about remote controlled jets but "radio beacons" is just as good.
So, now that we've had a "searing public event" we're, what, going to invade a shit-poor country with no natural resources, to defend pipelines that will never be built, that even if built wouldn't benefit us one iota?
Then, let me guess, we're gonna institute a police state and round up dissidents and put them into FEMA camps?
TR, the patsies attack when you want them to attack because you convince them
That's not "letting." That's "making." That's what the L and M and LIHOP and MIHOP stand for, fucktard.
If the planes home in on a radio beacon
And now there's a radio beacon. Great. Another gigantic piece of evidence that has to be installed surreptitiously, and can potentially be found.
If the charges are computer-controlled, you can reprogram the detonation sequence to match the impact floor.
Oh that is spectacular.
Of all the ludicrous technology people have to had invent to justify 9-11 conspiracy stories, you've just topped 'em all.
Forget Hushaboom(TM)! Forget Inviscrete(TM)! Forget Superduperultrananothermite (patent pending)!
Now we've got... Port-A-Bomb! The space-time altering explosive that automatically transports where you need it, when you need it!
Or are you going to tell me they planted explosives on all the floors and only blew up the one they needed? Please tell they planted them on all the floors and only blew up the one they needed. That would just brighten my day.
The war games aren't phony. There's a lot of evidence for them.
You missed the point completely.
What makes you think we didn't know when the attacks were coming? All we had to do was follow the guys to the airport!
Sure, once they've arrived in the United States the morning of the attack. Before that you have to spent a lot of years figuring out who the guys are, what their itinerary is, what their target is, and so on -- with laser precision and zero margin for error. And while trying to hide their actions from the conspirators, because they don't know the conspirators want them to succeed (again, that's what the L stands for).
New Yorker is right -- your thought process is unfuckinbelievable. How you manage daily life is totally beyond me.
Another gigantic piece of evidence that has to be installed surreptitiously, and can potentially be found.
I'm just going to beat him to the punch:
"TR, the radio beacon could have been sent out from the antenna on top of WTC 1. You really haven't thought this through."
NY, neither TWA 800 nor Pan Am 103 were able to motivate 20-year wars.
There is evidence that we knew the attacks were coming. Top Pentagon brass cancelled travel plans. FBI agents warned David Schippers. Apparently Schippers believed these warnings were pretty specific. Tenet and Blee warned Condi an attack was coming in the next few weeks.
stilllaughing, no benefit to whom? Halliburtoin got no-bid contracts, Bush got his war, Pentagon got a $700 billion budget, CIA got the resumed Afghan opium, Chevron gets the Afghan pipeline.
TR, there are MIHOP elements in the LIHOP and vice versa. Sorry the world is more complicated than the binary world you want. You Let It Happen when you want it to happen. You can't hide a radio beacon in an elevator shaft?
There's no need to invent anything. Ever hear of MIDI? Ever see that Apple ad where an Apple II turned off all the lights in a building, floor by floor? You guys are so 1973!
They planted many floors and detonated them in the desired sequence.
TR, your incredulity is based on your ignorance of the facts. The hijackers did not arrive the morning of 9/11. The San Diego guys lived with an FBI informant and made many unsecured phone calls back to the Yemen communications hub that was bugged by the CIA. The Mossad warned of 19 terrorists planning something big, and they named names. How do you think the FBI identified the dead hijackers (without bodies) within a couple of days?
NY, neither TWA 800 nor Pan Am 103 were able to motivate 20-year wars.
I would hope TWA didn't since it wasn't a fucking terrorist attack, you retard. Also, it's not 2021. Learn to google.
There is evidence that we knew the attacks were coming. Top Pentagon brass cancelled travel plans. FBI agents warned David Schippers. Apparently Schippers believed these warnings were pretty specific. Tenet and Blee warned Condi an attack was coming in the next few weeks.
So in other words, there was no evidence. Good to have that cleared up.
CIA got the resumed Afghan opium
I'd better get some popcorn before he explains this one...
TR, there are MIHOP elements in the LIHOP and vice versa.
False.
There's no need to invent anything. Ever hear of MIDI? Ever see that Apple ad where an Apple II turned off all the lights in a building, floor by floor? You guys are so 1973!
1973: the last year Brian Good was capable of having a coherent thought before all the LSD finally got to him.
They planted many floors and detonated them in the desired sequence.
No.
TR, your incredulity is based on your ignorance of the facts. The hijackers did not arrive the morning of 9/11. The San Diego guys lived with an FBI informant and made many unsecured phone calls back to the Yemen communications hub that was bugged by the CIA. The Mossad warned of 19 terrorists planning something big, and they named names. How do you think the FBI identified the dead hijackers (without bodies) within a couple of days?
Nobody cares, Petgoat.
Anyway, Brian, now that you're done babbling about radio beacons and computer-controlled demolitions, I want to know more about the CIA-opium stuff.
This is gonna be GREAT....
CIA got the resumed Afghan opium, Chevron gets the Afghan pipeline.
Of course you think the CIA is in the drug business. And of course you have proof right?
I'm pretty sure I mentioned that the pipeline in question isn't being built. They can't keep roads from getting blown to shit, how would they keep a pipeline and all its hundreds of pumping stations from being blown up?
Furthermore, the Chinese have already finished a pipeline that will take the gas north and east to Xinjiang province in China. Turkmenistan (the source of the gas) is planning on sending another pipeline south and west through Iran. There's not enough gas remaining for a trans-afghan pipeline.
We should have just sold UNOCAL and its worthless pipeline routes to CNOOC when we had the chance.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8410369.stm
notlaughing, what no pipeline? Then why is Obama sending more troops?
'Cus he needs to look tough lest the right wingers call him weak on terror. Or maybe he's really delusional enough to think we can bring democracy to Afghanistan. You'll have to ask him.
The fact is, that pipeline is a worthless investment without any natural gas to put in it. The gas flows to Europe via Russia already. It's starting to flow to China (and will probably stop going to Russia) and will eventually also flow to Europe via Iran and Turkey. There's none left for India and Pakistan or Gwadar or whatever you think Chevron has planned.
You Let It Happen when you want it to happen.
...except that, as I said before, have to "let" people do exactly what you want. Especially in a complex scenario as you suggest.
You can't hide a radio beacon in an elevator shaft?
Sure, as long as nobody has to do ordinary elevator maintenance. Which they do all the time in a skyscraper.
Ever see that Apple ad where an Apple II turned off all the lights in a building, floor by floor?
Lights are not explosives. Also, planes were not crashing into the building at the time. This becomes a factor, as we shall see.
They planted many floors and detonated them in the desired sequence.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
Okay, okay, I'm done laughing. I'm HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
Yeah, sure, Brian. They planted explosives on all the floors. Which in addition to increasing the difficulty of installation avoiding detection by a couple thousand googolplexes, once the building was struck, and jet fuel, fire, and structural integrity issues were introduced, there are about 80 quadrillion things that could go wrong with your brilliant explosives system.
Thanks, Brian. You made my morning. Now go get your fucking head examined. And pick a name.
"If the charges are computer-controlled, you can reprogram the detonation sequence to match the impact floor."
brian, when you were a kid, and were playing in the sandbox, did the cat keep trying to cover you up?
'How many times do I have to explain to you, Brian, that serious professionals don't spend their time refuting the ignorant lunacy of people like Gage?'
This is the whole point. The truthers are on such an ego trip that they don't realise that the majority of professionals in the relevant scientific disciplines don't 'refute' their bullshit because they can't, but because they've ever never heard of their comedy excuse for 'research', or think it's so self-evidently retarded that it's not worth wasting one's time tearing it to shreds.
Any doubts? Go online, find a reputable uni with a Dept in Civil Engineering or Physics, pick a name, forward Jones and Harrit's 'paper' to said professor, and wait for the response.
PS: Boris, you really shouldn't use your photo on this site. You look like someone recently set your head on fire and put it out with a shovel.
TR: [you] have to "let" people do exactly what you want.
If you know that what they want is what you want, what's the problem?
as long as nobody has to do ordinary elevator maintenance.
Maintenance schedules can be known. There are many crannies in an elevator shaft, and things can be disguised as other things.
Lights are not explosives.
Nobody said they were. Computer-controlled triggers can be used to control lights or explosives.
planes were not crashing into the building at the time.
So what? Thermite is not ignited by ordinary fires.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Is that what you wrote for your Masters Thesis? How did that work out for you?
Yeah, sure, Brian. They planted explosives on all the floors.
I didn't say all the floors. I said several floors. Explosives could be planted in the elevator shafts on many floors easily. Hidden inside the hollow core columns it would be difficult to detect.
LL: "If the charges are computer-controlled, you can reprogram the detonation sequence to match the impact floor."
LL. I guess you've never seen a MIDI computer control a room full of music synthesizers -- perfectly sequenced and synchronized. It's old technology-- from the '80s.
Saa, When Gage speaks at a university, every professor in relevant fields gets an individual invitation to the talk.
You guys are so lame you convince me I'm right.
TR: [you] have to "let" people do exactly what you want.
If you know that what they want is what you want, what's the problem?
as long as nobody has to do ordinary elevator maintenance.
Maintenance schedules can be known. There are many crannies in an elevator shaft, and things can be disguised as other things.
Lights are not explosives.
Nobody said they were. Computer-controlled triggers can be used to control lights or explosives.
planes were not crashing into the building at the time.
So what? Thermite is not ignited by ordinary fires.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Is that what you wrote for your Masters Thesis? How did that work out for you?
Yeah, sure, Brian. They planted explosives on all the floors.
I didn't say all the floors. I said several floors. Explosives could be planted in the elevator shafts on many floors easily. Hidden inside the hollow core columns it would be difficult to detect.
LL: "If the charges are computer-controlled, you can reprogram the detonation sequence to match the impact floor."
LL. I guess you've never seen a MIDI computer control a room full of music synthesizers -- perfectly sequenced and synchronized. It's old technology-- from the '80s.
Saa:
When Gage speaks at a university, every professor in relevant fields gets an individual invitation to the talk.
Basically y'all just argue "I'm too lazy and ignorant to figure out how to do it, and therefore it can't be done."
Maintenance schedules can be known. There are many crannies in an elevator shaft, and things can be disguised as other things.
That's nice.
Nobody said they were. Computer-controlled triggers can be used to control lights or explosives.
So what?
So what? Thermite is not ignited by ordinary fires.
Thermite also isn't used to demolish buildings.
Is that what you wrote for your Masters Thesis? How did that work out for you?
I detect a bit of ressentiment on the part of our faild janitor here. It's OK, Brian, there's nothing wrong with being a janitor. It's just that you might actually be able to hold onto a job if you don't spend every hour of that job babbling about thermite and stalking the female employees.
I didn't say all the floors. I said several floors. Explosives could be planted in the elevator shafts on many floors easily. Hidden inside the hollow core columns it would be difficult to detect.
And you have plenty of evidence for this, right Brian?
LL. I guess you've never seen a MIDI computer control a room full of music synthesizers -- perfectly sequenced and synchronized. It's old technology-- from the '80s.
And the relevance of this is.....?
Saa, When Gage speaks at a university, every professor in relevant fields gets an individual invitation to the talk.
That's nice. You do understand that serious academics are busy people who don't have time to waste "debating" frauds like Gage, right?
There's a homeless guy in Washington Square Park who claims he is the second coming of Christ and is bitching that Billy Graham and the Pope won't meet with him. I'm sure it's because they're afraid to debate him.
You guys are so lame you convince me I'm right.
Nobody cares, Petgoat.
"So what? Thermite is not ignited by ordinary fires."
Wait, you're back to thermite?
I thought it was computer controlled multi-floor planted explosives that did the deed.
Or was it multi-floor computer controlled squibs that ignited the thermite and then the computer controlled explosives went off after the planes hit the building and ignited the carpets?
I'm still waiting for an explanation of the motive for the attack. It's interesting that "they" could pull off something like 9-11 but can't beat the Chinese to central Asian gas fields. Omnipotence sure is selective these days.
Also, you still owe us an explanation as to what the CIA wants with opium. Krazee feel free to fill in here.
I'd guess the reason Afghanistan turned out so wrong is that our ideologues assumed (as the Russians probably did) that the people would greet us a liberators and everything would be loverly.
Why does the CIA want the opium? Ever hear of this thing called money?
Again, "they" can pull of the most complicated feat of engineering and misdirection in history but didn't look at what Wikipedia had to say about Pashtun nationalism? The NWO sure is incompetent for an all seeing all knowing cabal.
As far as money goes, have you ever heard of a thing called "Taxes" and "black budgets?"
If you know that what they want is what you want, what's the problem?
For the third and final time, the problem is getting independent people to act in precise harmony with the rest of your conspiracy, which your argument requires. You clearly do not understand how difficult this attack would be to coordinate. Even if all the actors were in on it, it would be needlessly difficult.
Maintenance schedules can be known.
Much maintenance is unscheduled.
things can be disguised as other things.
There are not many things in an elevator shaft that an airline beacon could be made to look like. Hell, would it even fit? Would it even function? Would it even help? I mean, the beacon doesn't fly the plane for you. I don't know any of this, and neither do you.
Nobody said (lights) were (explosives).
You did, in your 20:32 post. But you're nobody, so in a way you're correct.
I didn't say all the floors. I said several floors.
It doesn't matter whether it's 2 floors, or the total number of floors in the tower minus one.
Rigging one floor of a WTC tower with enough explosives to destroy they building without detection is unfeasible, as has been explained here many times. Doing more than one floor is unfeasible times unfeasible. Any floor beyond that is unfeasible raised to a power of your choice.
And how typical of you to nitpick an irrelevant detail like that when the whole thing is a non-starter. And you keep changing the rules halfway through. Speaking of which:
So what? Thermite is not ignited by ordinary fires.
BAHWHAHAHHWHAHAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! And now it's thermite again?! PRICELESS!
So is it thermite or explosives? No, wait! Don't tell me! It's BOTH!!!!! It's a floor wax and a dessert topping! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
Explosives could be planted in the elevator shafts on many floors easily.
I could answer this one of two ways.
I could say that they're not, and implore you to use your mighty Google skills and learn how much explosive it takes to destroy much smaller buildings, with unlimited access, weeks of prep time, no need to maintain operational safety for tenants, and no need to hide what you're doing.
But the more precise answer is this: your insertion of thermite into this "explosives" discussion lowers it to a point where there's absolutely no logic left, even as an exercise in mocking you.
If you're just going to make up substances that have whatever properties you need any given second, I'll just say that your proposed attack would never work because Batman would have stopped it.
'When Gage speaks at a university, every professor in relevant fields gets an individual invitation to the talk.'
Now tell me if they can be bothered to turn up.
Why does the CIA want the opium? Ever hear of this thing called money?
The entire value of Afghanistan's drug exports is $4 billion.
That amount, if completely appropriated by the United States government at no cost, would pay about two percent of the total cost of being in Afghanistan in the first place ($188 billion; includes Afghanistan, Iraq and other efforts).
It would pay less than one half of one percent of the cost of Obamacare (at least $800 billion, over ten years; proposed bills vary).
It would pay one-tenth of one percent of the entire federal budget (about $3 trillion in 2007).
Wanna try again? And this time, maybe not be such a smartass about it?
Our defense budget it between $700 billion and $1 trillion. I've read estimates of the black budget to be around $50 billion. The CIA is clearly strapped for cash.
My favorite explanation is Michael Ruppert's, who claims that wall street banks need drug cash to finance their operations.
Actually Sacktchel Paige,that paper is going around the world right now and the fact remains:there has been no challenge to it's findings.Besides Bozo's like you offering that the dust was fabricated,it's the usual silence.Meanwhile,life goes on outside all around you.
Do you have evidence that anyone relevant is paying attention to it?
Anon 15:47, since "they" apparently couldn't see that Iraq was another Yugoslavia set to implode, I don't see why we should expect them to learn from the Russian experience in Afghanistan. After all, if they hated the Russians, it was cinch that they'd love us, right?
TR, the patsies coordinate because they regard the war games of 9/11 as a window of opportunity.
Hiding explosives inside the hollow box columns is not unfeasible. Most of the box columns were accessible from the elevator shafts.
Your thermite/explosive gag is a false dichotomy. Why not both? You can have kung pao AND chow fun! What a concept! Wow!
There was a six month elevator renovations project going on in thr weeks before 9/11. Lots of cover for strange goings on in the elevator shafts.
That you invoke Batman in your QED shows that you're better at entertainment than logic.
TR, the wholesale cost of the opium is a different matter from the retailers' cost for the heroin. One thing about people with lots of money. If they have $50 billion for black ops, they want $100 billion irresponsible no-questions-asked dollars.
KBF: What do you expect them to do if they are? Send up a signal flare?
Again, "they" can pull of the most complicated feat of engineering and misdirection in history but didn't look at what Wikipedia had to say about Pashtun nationalism? The NWO sure is incompetent for an all seeing all knowing cabal.
Yes. Don't forget that they rigged the WTC with magic explosives and had radio beacons to lure their pasty Arab hijackers to the towers and then managed to cover it all up after a flawless execution....only to forget to plant some canisters of sarin gas in the middle of the empty desert in Iraq.
I expect people to have startling reactions to evidence that the US government perpetrated 9-11. This would come as a shock to most people.
You can't claim that some BS report is going "around the world" then claim that there's no way of verifying this. I doubt any serious scholars have looked at it. I'm sure the Muslim Brotherhood has though, they eat this shit up!
You guys are so uncreative. Why haven't you considered the obvious possibility that Yugoslavization of Iraq was the goal in the first place? We can't afford a unified Islamic world, so stir up trouble between Sunni and Shi'ia in the most divided Islamic country. And as an added benefit, Iraq's massive oil supplies will stay in the ground and keep oil prices high, to benefit Bush's oil buddies and their Saudi friends.
I have to admit, wild speculation is a lot of fun.
My favorite explanation is Michael Ruppert's, who claims that wall street banks need drug cash to finance their operations.
Of course it's your favorite, since it's completely insane.
TR, the patsies coordinate because they regard the war games of 9/11 as a window of opportunity.
There were no patsies, Petgoat.
Hiding explosives inside the hollow box columns is not unfeasible. Most of the box columns were accessible from the elevator shafts.
False.
Your thermite/explosive gag is a false dichotomy. Why not both? You can have kung pao AND chow fun! What a concept! Wow!
I think there needs to be napalm, tabasco sauce, and bubblegum too. It wouldn't work right without these additional items.
There was a six month elevator renovations project going on in thr weeks before 9/11. Lots of cover for strange goings on in the elevator shafts.
Nobody cares, Petgoat.
That you invoke Batman in your QED shows that you're better at entertainment than logic.
Stop pretending you know what QED means, Petgoat.
TR, the wholesale cost of the opium is a different matter from the retailers' cost for the heroin. One thing about people with lots of money. If they have $50 billion for black ops, they want $100 billion irresponsible no-questions-asked dollars.
Can you please take your medications and try to type this again in English?
I'm not going to bother with the point by point this time, because I've answered all this shit already, and it's getting boring. I'm just going to focus on this comment:
That you invoke Batman in your QED shows that you're better at entertainment than logic.
Well, at least you're starting to figure out what I'm all about.
Brian, I'm going to make a little confession to you. I don't care about this argument. I just wanted to see how much crazy shit I could get you to say.
I'd say I've done pretty well, because according to you:
1. The WTC had both thermite and explosives planted.
2.The WTC had both thermite and explosives planted on multiple floors.
3. Oh, and an airplane beacon was placed inside the WTC towers in the elevator shafts to assist the pilots in hitting the target.
I think those are three completely new theories in the 9-11 Truth movement. All the years of Loose Change versions, Loose Change copycats, hecklivisms, and DURR INVESTIGATING have failed to produce those three theories. And you did it in one thread. Bravo. The thread's almost over anyway, so take a bow. And PICK A GODDAMN NAME.
NY, your "flawless execution" canard is just silly. 9/11 was anything but flawless. The timing got all bolluxed so NORAD had to sit on its hands for 100 minutes, and the president was stuck with his goat story because flight 77 was delayed.
They used way too much explosives on the twin towers, WTC7 was a dud and they had to fix that, the passengers took over flight 93 and that had to be shot down. 9/11 was totally botched.
KBF, I've considered the possibility that Balkanization of Iraq was intended. My suggestion that the neocons were ignorant was in a certain context. I've also considered the possibility that DU poison is intended to make Iraq uninhabitable.
TR, so you're admitting that you're about the yuks and not the facts.
You guys keep claiming I'm asserting things that I only raise as objections to your irrational claims that certain things are impossible.
Pick a name? Obviously you want me to pick "Brian Good".
'Actually Sacktchel Paige,that paper is going around the world right now and the fact remains:there has been no challenge to it's findings.'
Probably because no one who's not a truther loser has actually read it. What does that tell you, Walt? It tells you that it's findings are as credible as your attempts to pose online as an OIF vet.
NY, your "flawless execution" canard is just silly. 9/11 was anything but flawless. The timing got all bolluxed so NORAD had to sit on its hands for 100 minutes, and the president was stuck with his goat story because flight 77 was delayed.
Well, this might be true if the US government carried out the attack. It didn't. That's what we're trying to tell you, Brian. You should try listening to us sometime.
They used way too much explosives on the twin towers, WTC7 was a dud and they had to fix that, the passengers took over flight 93 and that had to be shot down. 9/11 was totally botched.
See above, Brian.
I've also considered the possibility that DU poison is intended to make Iraq uninhabitable.
Brian, I know you hate Democratic Underground for laughing at your "meatball on a fork" model, but you can't poison a country with a website.
TR, so you're admitting that you're about the yuks and not the facts.
No, we know the facts. We just prefer laughing at you to meticulously laying them out.
You guys keep claiming I'm asserting things that I only raise as objections to your irrational claims that certain things are impossible.
English, Brian.
Pick a name? Obviously you want me to pick "Brian Good".
Or Petgoat, or punxsutawneybarney, or contrivance, or snug.bug....
And yes, I know Brian doesn't mean "Democratic Undeground" when he said DU. He's just babbling about another conspiracy regarding depleted uranium.
I'm wondering how long it's going to take to make Iraq uninhabitable. I mean, all those tank battles 19 years ago, and we still haven't turned the country into a Chernobyl-esque zone of exclusion. Man, the NWO is really slipping these days.
Come to think of it, their attempt to make Nevada uninhabitable by testing nuclear weapons there for 40 fucking years didn't work out too well either. I mean, Las Vegas is the fastest growing metro area in the country, even as it sits 100 miles downwind from the Nevada Test Site.
"My favorite explanation is Michael Ruppert's, who claims that wall street banks need drug cash to finance their operations."
According to wiki-p, the total worth of (just the) New York Stock exchange in August, 2009 was $10,842,001,9000.
NASDAQ was $2,847,535,200
So I'm sure that $4 billion dollars in Afghan opium is gonna be a deal breaker......
[facepalm]
It tells us,Sackpoodle,that you and your reactionary,pretentious crowd of twits has their heads in the sand and only consult propaganda from hacks like Steve Coll.
" Anonymous said...
Anon 15:47, since "they" apparently couldn't see that Iraq was another Yugoslavia set to implode"
Yeah, if Saddam Hussaine had passed away, there was no one ready to take his place, and infrastructure available to maintain the tyrannical, terroristic thug government in place.
Oh.
Wait.
"Hiding explosives inside the hollow box columns is not unfeasible. Most of the box columns were accessible from the elevator shafts.:
Maybe not, but the idea that someone would actually do is insane.
"Your thermite/explosive gag is a false dichotomy. Why not both?"
TWO! TWO! TWO MINTS IN ONE!!!!!
I know, it's not nice to make fun of retards, but boron makes it so easy.
and assholio is like the cherry on the pile of bullshi.
My fingers aren't working this morning.....
Preview is my friemd.
'It tells us,Sackpoodle,that you and your reactionary,pretentious crowd of twits has their heads in the sand and only consult propaganda from hacks like Steve Coll.'
Oh right. So all of academia is ignoring the pioneering work of Jones, Harrit and other assorted wing-nuts because they're all sheeple. That old chestnut.
'"Again, "they" can pull of the most complicated feat of engineering and misdirection in history but didn't look at what Wikipedia had to say about Pashtun nationalism? The NWO sure is incompetent for an all seeing all knowing cabal".
Yes. Don't forget that they rigged the WTC with magic explosives and had radio beacons to lure their pasty Arab hijackers to the towers and then managed to cover it all up after a flawless execution....only to forget to plant some canisters of sarin gas in the middle of the empty desert in Iraq'.
Indeed. I've finally cut to the chase with the various 'truther' theories and this is what they amount to:
19 phantom hijackers from a non-existent terrorist group did not hijack four planes, which they did not crash into the WTC towers, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania. NORAD deliberately did not respond by scrambling the squadrons of invisible jets at its disposal, and the invisible SAM batteries surrounding the Pentagon were disabled so they couldn't shoot down AA77.
Prior to 9/11 the US government rigged WTCs 1,2 and 7 for a controlled demolition in a matter of days, without anyone working in these buildings noticing. Leprachauns carrying hushabooms are suspected.
The whole purpose of 9/11 was to frame the non-existent terrorist group, which has never committed any acts of terrorism before or since that day, and to build and protect an invisible oil pipeline across Afghanistan.
And they say the 'official' story lacks plausibility.
Even a casual perusal of the modified,limited hangout that George Tenet was part of destroys the whole Debunker Cult's bizarre attempt to "disappear" huge chunks of the story.They knew and they both let it happen and made it happen.There's no contradiction there and only the nincompoop's with their pathetic "coincidence theory" think they've cleared up that smoke.
NY: "I'm wondering how long it's going to take to make Iraq uninhabitable."
The birth defect rate is very high there, NY.
LL's numbers ($11 trillion NYSE, $3 trillion NDAQ, $4 billion opium) are misleading. According to Ruppert the illegal drug industry is worth $500 billion a year, and all that goes to the moneylaundering banks in cash. You can't compare wholesale opium in Afghanistan to retail heroin in Manhattan and London, and you can't compare stocks to cash.
Saa, the six-month elevator renovations project provided cover for the planting of explosives and incendiaries.
"LL's numbers ($11 trillion NYSE, $3 trillion NDAQ, $4 billion opium) are misleading."
No they're not.
They prove that you are a fcuking moron, boron.
Deal with it.
According to Ruppert the illegal drug industry is worth $500 billion a year, and all that goes to the moneylaundering banks in cash.
The GLOBAL drug trade is estimated to be worth around $400 billion according to UN figures. You might want to cite legitimate sources and not disgruntled ex-cops.
Can you please explain how money laundering helps banks? Do you know what money laundering is? The banks get dirty money and give their clients clean money. It's a 1 for 1 exchange with no net benefit for the banks.
The birth defect rate is very high there, NY.
As it is in the Ukraine. Neither country is uninhabitable.
LL's numbers ($11 trillion NYSE, $3 trillion NDAQ, $4 billion opium) are misleading. According to Ruppert the illegal drug industry is worth $500 billion a year, and all that goes to the moneylaundering banks in cash. You can't compare wholesale opium in Afghanistan to retail heroin in Manhattan and London, and you can't compare stocks to cash.
Is there a term for the opposite of a Renaissance Man? You know, instead of someone who is an expert in all fields, someone who is an appalling dunce in all fields?
Saa, the six-month elevator renovations project provided cover for the planting of explosives and incendiaries.
False.
LL, your ignorance is showing.
Rupertstiltskin, presumably the cash is returned to the drug lords in the form of loans. That keeps the reserves up. You don't buy real estate or legitimate businesses with cash. That attracts too much attention.
NY, I'll give you one thing, you're consistent. A consistent liar, but consistent.
Rupertstiltskin, presumably the cash is returned to the drug lords in the form of loans. That keeps the reserves up. You don't buy real estate or legitimate businesses with cash. That attracts too much attention.
Brian, nothing you've ever babbled about here has been based on anything but presumptions inside that diseased mind of yours.
NY, I'll give you one thing, you're consistent. A consistent liar, but consistent.
Show me one example of a lie. You can't. You make up your own facts.
TR, so you're admitting that you're about the yuks and not the facts.
Yes, I am.
I hate to break this to you, Brian, but the facts were settled long ago. People in coffee shops around the world are not chatting about World Trade Center controlled demolition theories. Academics are not holding conferences on thermite. Governments are not having discussions with the World Court about bringing your alleged conspirators to justice. And even most conspiracy losers have moved on to Birtherism and more recent items.
But I know what you're really trying to say. You're trying to say that my argument is invalid because my stated objective is getting cheap laughs. (And you're just a noble, intelliegent truthseeker demanding an independent investigation into the multiple explosives/multiple floors/airline beacon theory.)
Burn this into your frontal lobe: COMEDY REQUIRES TRUTH. Sure, there's rampant exaggeration, absurdism, juxtaposition, pastiche, and many other techniques. But comedy requires an element of truth to resonate with an audience.
The truth, in this case, is my attempts to maintain a logical narrative as you careen off the rails in every direction, making you introduce new and even more ridiculous elements to justify the ridiculous things you said two sentences before.
So, yeah, I'm all about the yuks. But there's a lot more truth in my yuks than there is truth in your entire compendium of 9-11 conspiracy theories.
"Is there a term for the opposite of a Renaissance Man? You know, instead of someone who is an expert in all fields, someone who is an appalling dunce in all fields?"
Yeah, a "brian".
"Anonymous said...
LL, your ignorance is showing."
See what I mean?
'Saa, the six-month elevator renovations project provided cover for the planting of explosives and incendiaries.'
Name me an accredited expert in CD who can support your claim that this is possible. Or show me any evidence showing that the firms responsible for the renovation (bet you can't even name them) were responsible. I won't hold my breath on either count.
'According to Ruppert ...'
Yeah, let's all take for granted the word of a kook who mistook a convicted fraudster and a paedophile for a US Navy intelligence operative.
NY, you've lied in claiming the widows have no questions. You've lied in claiming that NIST did not say the buiildngs came down "essentially in free fall". Almost every one of your dozens of statements "false" has been a lie.
Saa, the six-month elevator renovations project was done by Ace Elevator. They had over 75 people in the buildings on the morning of 9/11. And though elevator mechanics have a culture of being heroic rescuers, not one of the Ace people died on 9/11.
No expert is needed. The elevator shafts allowed access to most of the core columns.
NY, you've lied in claiming the widows have no questions.
They don't.
You've lied in claiming that NIST did not say the buiildngs came down "essentially in free fall".
NIST didn't say the buildings came down "essentially in free-fall".
Almost every one of your dozens of statements "false" has been a lie.
False.
Saa, the six-month elevator renovations project was done by Ace Elevator. They had over 75 people in the buildings on the morning of 9/11. And though elevator mechanics have a culture of being heroic rescuers, not one of the Ace people died on 9/11.
Nobody cares, Brian.
No expert is needed. The elevator shafts allowed access to most of the core columns.
Nobody cares, Brian.
not one of the Ace people died on 9-11
Are you accusing them? Or just more curious observations that amount to nothing.
'Saa, the six-month elevator renovations project was done by Ace Elevator. They had over 75 people in the buildings on the morning of 9/11. And though elevator mechanics have a culture of being heroic rescuers, not one of the Ace people died on 9/11.'
That's what you call 'proof'? You're smearing a bunch of working men now. Have you got any evidence to back up your claim that they rigged a building for a CD, and were complicit in mass murder?
Thought not, you lying little sack of shit. I hope you cycle into an AIDS tree.
Saa, I didn't day anything about proof. Nor did I claim that Ace rigged a building for a CD, and were complicit in mass murder.You surround your tender psyche with so many straw men you've effectively consigned yourself to life in a padded cell.
I believe I brought the issue up in response to someone who claimed that any attempt to plant explosives would have been detected. Since there were dozens of men working in two hundred elevator shafts, that's simply not true.
I hope you cycle into an AIDS tree.
I never heard of an AIDS tree. I guess you move in different circles from me.
Saa, I didn't day anything about proof. Nor did I claim that Ace rigged a building for a CD, and were complicit in mass murder.You surround your tender psyche with so many straw men you've effectively consigned yourself to life in a padded cell.
No, you're just babbling about nothing, as always. Now go say something mean about Willie Rodriguez like a good little Petgoat.
I believe I brought the issue up in response to someone who claimed that any attempt to plant explosives would have been detected. Since there were dozens of men working in two hundred elevator shafts, that's simply not true.
False.
There's Peew Porker babbling about babbling about nothing, and lying about Ace elevator.
He thinks he's cute.
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