Sunday, July 09, 2006

The "No-Buildings" Theory

Given that the "no-planes" theory seems to be, um, taking off, I thought I'd pursue the next big thing in CT circles: the "no-buildings" theory.

Now, I know what you're thinking already. "Pat, how can you say there were no World Trade Center buildings? We've all seen them hundreds and thousands of times."

Ah, but how many of you have really seen them in person, and not as pixels on your TV screen or computer monitor? Have you ever actually been inside the World Trade Center?

And even if you have seen the WTC, when did you see it? Who's to say it wasn't dismantled shortly after your last visit?

And think about the advantage to the neoconservatives. No need for a controlled demolition. No need to get rid of the bomb-sniffing dogs! No worry about collateral damage.

How did they do it? With holograms. Doubt it? Then look at this:



This also solves some of the anomalies with the collapse of the two buildings. How did the South Tower come straight down after it first started to tilt?



What about the Pentagon? Don't tell me you fell for the existence of the Pentagon? A huge, five-sided building constructed with concentric rings? Don't be absurd. We know Donald Rumsfeld can't account for $2.3 trillion in military spending, could it be the "construction costs" of this pretend building, which my sources tell me is actually a scale model mockup that can be found on the backlot at Universal Studios.



Yes, it's the biggest hoax since the moon landing! I explain it all in my new DVD, Loose Brains, available now for only $17.99 plus $2.99 shipping. You can also order an "Investigate 1941" tee shirt (1941 is the year construction started on the supposed "Pentagon"). By ordering this shirt, you promise to wear it to the planned protest on September 11, 2041 for the 100th anniversary of the groundbreaking. What's that? You didn't know that they "started" building the Pentagon exactly 60 years to the day before 9-11? Could they be any more blatant about it?

141 Comments:

At 09 July, 2006 08:51, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Like, hey man, wow, I mean, you nailed it, man, I mean, stop the FINALCUT-PRO, man his has to go in my new film man, Looooose Change 64!

 
At 09 July, 2006 09:45, Blogger dman said...

You mean all those years when I
would stop at the WTC PATH station
(one they were planning to bomb)
and walked throught the underground
concourse it was all an illusion!
And the time took the elevator to
the observation deck on the South
Tower? Come to think of it was
kind of strange - I mean like
how did they get all those people
around?

 
At 09 July, 2006 09:53, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Like hey man, I was never there, so it makes sense - you know, I mean, that's why when I had that thing about the pods, like I forgot that the pods, were really shadows, ya know, I mean, like how was I to know the sun came from the east that morning, and the pods were like the shodows of the engines.

Like wow, I mean, its not like that in Oneonta, ya know.

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:02, Blogger Unknown said...

More Grist for the Mill (the mill being the assertion that 9/11 was a false flag operation):

The web page contains links to the audio archive of:

Taking Aim -- with Ralph Schoenman and Mya Shone

I wasn't able to get the mp3 to download in full of one particular show of interest. I was able, however to get the streaming link to work for:

020910/ 9/11: False Flag Operation

Take a listen.

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:14, Blogger Dutch reader said...

*laughing*

A nice new story from hired foreign subtitlers for movies.

Let's not check it and present something.
What you do, is go in on subjects, on which you guys have forknowledge, or inexplainable truths, PROOVING otherwise.

Nice bedtime stories here.
Let's search for the truth, by telling more fairytales.

"Confidential does not mean freedom"

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:18, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Let me translate the dutch:

We chase shadows, and imaginary bad guys, and make a career for ourselves, because you never catch them.

But hey man, we're just asking questions. And don't like the answer and change the subject.

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:31, Blogger Alex said...

As Mike Myers famously said:

There's two things I hate.

People who are intolerant of other people's cultures......and the Dutch.

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:44, Blogger shawn said...

Did you know that before 2004, the last time the Red Sox won the World Series was September 11, 1918? Must be part of the conspiracy.

Let's not check it and present something.
What you do, is go in on subjects, on which you guys have forknowledge, or inexplainable truths, PROOVING otherwise.


What I got from this was: you guys debunk things that you know about, and can't explain the truth (which is the dumbest thing I have yet to see on this blog). The truth isn't 'inexplainable' as it's the TRUTH.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:06, Blogger BoggleHead said...

Saudi Arabia funded the 9/11 attacks but we invade Afghanistan and Iraq

No explanation necessary for the truth.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:13, Blogger Killtown said...

The "no-tail" theory...

Flight 77's Missing Tail Section

Look how big 757 tails are.

Where did it go?

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:15, Blogger Killtown said...

Btw, I've notice a lot of you 9/11 "debunkers" take a lot of things out of context from us 9/11 CT's. Wasn't that one of your main complaints against Loose Change, that they took things out of context?

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:16, Blogger shawn said...

Saudi Arabia funded the 9/11 attacks but we invade Afghanistan and Iraq

I wonder why we'd invande Afghanistan...might have something to do with the al-Qaeda camps all over the country and the Taliban harboring Osama and his ilk.

Now, Iraq, you have an argument there.

The "no-tail" theory...

Flight 77's Missing Tail Section


Yup, keep repeating it, it might make it relevant (how do you explain those crashes where the tail was destroyed?).

I guess you missed where it hit a concrete building and then was engulfed in a huge fireball. But those magic tail sections...they survive!

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:20, Blogger BoggleHead said...

How about TWA flight 800?

Why is the US government covering up its terrorism investigations?

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:26, Blogger shawn said...

How about TWA flight 800?

The plane went down due to faulty wire insulation (and subsequent electrical arc igniting fumes and causes a fuel tank to detonate).

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:29, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

No tail?

Like hey man, like I didn't get much tail either, I mean, before Loose Change, but now there's like Samantha Woodhouse, and like I mean well, you know,

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:38, Blogger apathoid said...

How about TWA flight 800?

Jeez! Is absolutely every tragedy a conspiracy to some people? How do you feel about foam destroying a space shuttle Boggs? Was the fuel tank using nano-super foam or something. I'd say that sounds pretty fishy. Also, some worms(from an experiment) survived the 250,000 ft fall(through the harsh upper atmosphere) and 70g impact. Sounds like a conspiracy to me, how do we know those worms werent switched? Look into it, its a conspricay just waiting to be uncovered(except for any possible motive).....

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:42, Blogger Killtown said...

Shawn said... I guess you missed where it hit a concrete building and then was engulfed in a huge fireball. But those magic tail sections...they survive!

I guess you missed the photos in my blog which showed nothing hitting the 3rd story facade!!!

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:46, Blogger shawn said...

I guess you missed the photos in my blog which showed nothing hitting the 3rd story facade!!!

You notice some windows survived where the wings would've/should've hit? They're blast resistant, genius.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:53, Blogger shawn said...

You guys would be the worst defense attorneys on the planet.

"Yes everyone saw my client kidnap the woman. Yes, they saw him cover the car in gasoline. Yes, they saw him light it on fire, BUT the woman's feet are missing. You must acquit."

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:58, Blogger shawn said...

Although, it's quite similar to how creationists work. They point out the missing "missing link" and ignore the mountains of other evidence to try to say "see, evolution doesn't work!"

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:01, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

Why don't you tell us where you think 6 million jews went, KKKiltown?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7618

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:02, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:04, Blogger shawn said...

Goddamit, he's a Holocaust denier? That's just disgusting.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:04, Blogger shawn said...

Oh, and Killtown about 1.1 million died at Auschwitz, the 6 million is all the Jews killed in the Holocaust.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:06, Blogger shawn said...

Let me correct myself, between 1 million and 1.5 million died at Auschwitz, a majority being Jews.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:19, Blogger Killtown said...

Shawn said... You notice some windows survived where the wings would've/should've hit? They're blast resistant, genius.

Yes, and? I'm talking about the tail section hitting against the relatively soft limestone. It would have made a mark if it obliterated against it.

Can't you even follow what I'm talking about? It might help if you actually LOOK at my blog.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:20, Blogger apathoid said...

So, Killtown is a "no-planer"(anywhere) and a holocaust denier. I guess we know how he feels about the Apollo moon landings and JFK.....sheesh.

Killtown, do yourself a favor and get a life.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:22, Blogger apathoid said...

Killtown, I gave you examples of high speed aircrashes yesterday where the tail mysteriously disappeared(as well as the rest of the plane). What do you have to say about that? Are they conspiracies too?

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:25, Blogger shawn said...

So, Killtown is a "no-planer"(anywhere) and a holocaust denier. I guess we know how he feels about the Apollo moon landings and JFK.....sheesh.

It truly is a religion to these people. It's quite obvious they can't be swayed by logic, reason, or evidence. they'll believe any conspiracy theory, as long as one person has thought of it. It doesn't matter if it makes sense or can be supported, it's added to the grand CT mythos. I mean you could sorta (I guess) take a CT seriously if they only bought into one (or hell, let's be generous, maybe two), but when they buy into unsupported bull like the grassy knoll shooter or the Holocaust being propaganda you really can't see them as anything but a religious, blind-faith zealot.

Killtown, I gave you examples of high speed aircrashes yesterday where the tail mysteriously disappeared(as well as the rest of the plane). What do you have to say about that? Are they conspiracies too?

He ignores it.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:32, Blogger BoggleHead said...

apathoid,

It's my understanding that CNN will be having a 2 hour special on TWA 800 soon.

It's also my understanding that the conclusion will be that because of a lack of transparency, we remain at risk for more TWA 800s.

So let's just wait till saturday when it comes out.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:37, Blogger apathoid said...

I hear ya Shawn, its exactly like dealing with a bunch of rabid Creationists, no doubt. CTs do is exactly what IDs do. They point out small irrelevant anomalies(to them) and believe that is enough to counter a theory endorsed by nearly every scientist in the whole world. Yet, if they applied the same standards of "skepticism" to their own theory, they would have to quickly abandon it.....yet they dont.
IDers=Dont care what every scientist in the world thinks
CTers=Dont care what every demolitionist and engineer in the world thinks.
Its realy kind of sad how people delude themselves

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:38, Blogger apathoid said...

Boggle, what motive would the government have to shoot down TWA 800??

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:39, Blogger Unknown said...

It sounds like Pat agrees with William Rodriguez:

William Rodriguez Says He Saw WTC Plane Parts

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:43, Blogger Killtown said...

apathoid said... So, Killtown is a "no-planer"(anywhere) and a holocaust denier. I guess we know how he feels about the Apollo moon landings and JFK

Curious what do you think "no-planer" means?

Holocaust denier? Apparently you don't read very well.

And please don't tell me you think Oswald did it alone!

apathoid said... Killtown, I gave you examples of high speed aircrashes yesterday where the tail mysteriously disappeared(as well as the rest of the plane). What do you have to say about that? Are they conspiracies too?

Again, address my question about 77's tail section FIRST, then I'll address yours.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:46, Blogger shawn said...

And please don't tell me you think Oswald did it alone!

He was the only shooter. There's absolutely no question about that.

Whether there was a grander conspiracy behind his assassination of JFK, you'll have to find better evidence than CTers have given thus far.

Again, address my question about 77's tail section FIRST, then I'll address yours.

Actually he is addressing your question. He's showing how it's not unusual for the major portions of the plane to seemingly disintegrate. Not only that but you ignore how your point matters at all.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:46, Blogger shawn said...

Holocaust denier? Apparently you don't read very well.

Holocaust denial refers to people who deny the generally accepted definition of the Holocaust, not just those very rare folks who think it didn't happen at all.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:46, Blogger BoggleHead said...

apathoid,

your inferences bear no resemblence to my implications

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:52, Blogger apathoid said...

Curious what do you think "no-planer" means?

Save it killtown, I've lurked in the LC forums long enough to know where you stand.....you think all videos, as well as the impact damage were faked.

Holocaust denier? Apparently you don't read very well.

So, you dont deny Germany killed 12 million(give or take) Jews??

Again, address my question about 77's tail section FIRST, then I'll address yours.

Negative. My evidence counters your notion that all crashes leave large hunks of wreckage, and I want you to acknowldege that. I can show you even more crashes where there are no tails if you'd like..

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:53, Blogger shawn said...

So, you dont deny Germany killed 12 million(give or take) Jews??

6 million Jews, 11 million total dead.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:53, Blogger shawn said...

you think all videos, as well as the impact damage were faked.

Wow, the levels of delusion baffle me.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:54, Blogger apathoid said...

your inferences bear no resemblence to my implications

What is that supposed to mean? If you think the government shot down TWA 800, you need to supply a possible motive. Comprendez?

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:55, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

Hey KKKilltown, holocaust denial exists for one reason.

It serves the pourposes of the white power movement. That's it.

As soon as you start questioning the holocaust, you may as well cut eye-holes in your bed sheet and throw it over your head because you're in the Klan now, boy!

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:56, Blogger apathoid said...

6 million Jews, 11 million total dead.

Thanks for correcting me, Shawn. Even if Killtown says he acknowledges the Holocaust, he still thinks its a watered down version, and the official count is propaganda...

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:00, Blogger Unknown said...

The Flight 93 Engines: WTF???

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:01, Blogger shawn said...

Hey, bg, how about we stop with the creationist tactics, huh?

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:08, Blogger BoggleHead said...

"What is that supposed to mean? If you think the government shot down TWA 800, you need to supply a possible motive. Comprendez?"

You need to supply a quote where I suggest this is what happened.

By contrast, all I said was that evidence that a missile hit TWA 800 was covered up, a conclusion which is beyond dispute.

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:11, Blogger Killtown said...

Shawn said...He was the only shooter. There's absolutely no question about that.

Back and to the left Shawn, back and to the left. Oh wait, his "nerve reaction" caused his head to SNAP VIOLENTLY back and to the left. How silly of me!

Actually he is addressing your question. He's showing how it's not unusual for the major portions of the plane to seemingly disintegrate. Not only that but you ignore how your point matters at all.

Shawn, GO BACK AND READ MY BLOG POST about the missing tail section!!! Obviously you DIDN'T!!!

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:16, Blogger apathoid said...

By contrast, all I said was that evidence that a missile hit TWA 800 was covered up, a conclusion which is beyond dispute.

The only evidence that a missile hit TWA800 is that the 747 exploded.

My question of motive is relevant for several reasons.
- TWA800 was over US waters, there would be no enemy vessels the shoot at aircraft..
- Not too many private citizens own surface to air missile batteries on their boats
- The above would mean the missile would have to be US
- If the missile was from a US Navy vessel, why did they shoot down the airliner..(motive)

Please do not bring up Iran Air 665 either, I know all about it and its not relevant, at all.....

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:18, Blogger Killtown said...

Shawn said...Holocaust denial refers to people who deny the generally accepted definition of the Holocaust, not just those very rare folks who think it didn't happen at all.

Aw, the "generally accepted definition". Ok, and that would be what, those who think the numbers are wrong? What if I thought 20 million Jews died, does that make me a "holocaust denier"?

Btw, what does all this holocaust stuff have to do about my points about 9/11??? Is it a character assassination attempt by OCT's?

"Don't believe anything Killtown says about 9/11, because he's a HOLOCAUST DENIER!!!"

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:18, Blogger apathoid said...

Shawn, GO BACK AND READ MY BLOG POST about the missing tail section!!! Obviously you DIDN'T!!!
I cant speak for Shawn, but I have no desire to look at your blog, so can you sort of summarize what you're trying to get at?
You say the tail is missing? Fine.
Are you looking for impact marks on the outer wall?

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:20, Blogger Killtown said...

BG said...The Flight 93 Engines: WTF???

Yes, no 757 crashed in Shanksville. See my Flight 93 page.

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:22, Blogger apathoid said...

Yes, no 757 crashed in Shanksville. See my Flight 93 page.

killtown, and you wonder why some of your CT bretheren call you a tin-hatter(and much worse)...

As I said before - get a life dude.

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:25, Blogger Killtown said...

apathoid said...I have no desire to look at your blog, so can you sort of summarize what you're trying to get at?

LoL!!! You guys are trying to debunk my claims and you HAVEN'T EVEN READ IT!!!

Man, you guys are killing me!

A quick summary of the missing tail section can be found here:

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/06/flight-77s-missing-tail-section.html

And btw apathoid, it helps if you READ what you are trying to debunk!

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:35, Blogger apathoid said...

Well, I dont have to read it killtown. I already know how seriously [explicative deleted] up in the head you are. But lets say I go to your blog and "debunk" you(which is not possible because you do not accept evidence).

Will you, in turn, explain the 757 specific debris found at the Pentagon, all the eyewitness accounts of a large passenger jet, the DNA matches for flight 77's occupants, the fact that AA has a 757 missing, the fact that AA is missing all of AA77s flight crew, explain why noone saw AA77 land at its destination or anywhere else?.

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:43, Blogger shawn said...

Btw, what does all this holocaust stuff have to do about my points about 9/11??? Is it a character assassination attempt by OCT's?

"Don't believe anything Killtown says about 9/11, because he's a HOLOCAUST DENIER!!!"


Ok, I'l spell it out for you (even though I did a couple posts up).

It speaks of the general psychology of the conspiracy-minded person. They have this odd thought process that history isn't a set of random events, but all has a puppet master behind it. It shows that you'll have faith in a conspiracy theory because you believe in other unsupported nonsense.

I've read your stuff on Flight 93 (and your stuff on the Pentagon). You just repeat the same debunked nonsense, or point out what you see as holes, just as creationists do with evolution.

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:44, Blogger BoggleHead said...

"The only evidence that a missile hit TWA800 is that the 747 exploded."

Well you've sure made some good headway.

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:45, Blogger shawn said...

Will you, in turn, explain the 757 specific debris found at the Pentagon, all the eyewitness accounts of a large passenger jet, the DNA matches for flight 77's occupants, the fact that AA has a 757 missing, the fact that AA is missing all of AA77s flight crew, explain why noone saw AA77 land at its destination or anywhere else?.

He seems to be one of those that sees any evidence against their belief structure as falsified or propaganda.

Killtown, for your tail post to have any relevance (as it stands it's a red herring, which you still haven't adressed) you need to show how all the eyewitnesses wrong, explain the pieces of the plane on the lawn, explain the engine and wheels found inside the Pentagn, and explain where all the people are.

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:47, Blogger apathoid said...

Well you've sure made some good headway.

I dont agree..

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:49, Blogger BoggleHead said...

You know how eyewitness reports at the Pentagon are so important that CTers have to deny them or explain them in order to claim the Pentagon was hit by a missile?

How does Apathoid propose to characterize the eyewitness testimony re: TWA 800?

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:50, Blogger apathoid said...

or point out what you see as holes, just as creationists do with evolution.

How do you feel about evolution, killtown?
What about all the Creationists smoking gun evidence that its false?

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:55, Blogger shawn said...

How does Apathoid propose to characterize the eyewitness testimony re: TWA 800?

How many people said it was a missle? All I can recall from back then (and it was quite awhile ago so my memory is fuzzy) was people saying they saw it explode.

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:55, Blogger apathoid said...

How does Apathoid propose to characterize the eyewitness testimony re: TWA 800?

You need a motive, bogglehead. The government doesnt shoot down an airliner just because...

The NYC airspace is some of the densest in the world, yet no airline pilots saw a missle.
I will go looking for some eyewitness accounts of a missile, but I already know what I'm going to find...

 
At 09 July, 2006 16:17, Blogger apathoid said...

Bogglehead, after a brief search I couldnt find any first hand eyetwitness accounts of a missile. I see a bunch of garbage being spewed by the usual sites(Newsmax, etc)

This charade got started by a French journalist(why is it always the French that starts these things?) who cited French intelligence sources that actually were fakers..
He is also threatening to have the Russians spill the beans(like they wouldn't have already!)

Also, I'd like to point something out here that I let you get away with before with regard to eyewitnesses at the Pentagon and at the scene of TWA800(which there werent any)
Fact 1: There were no people within 5 miles of the TWA 800 explosion, many people who reported a missile were 10-20 miles away.(10 - 20 miles!!)
Fact 2: A hundred or so people were 300 yards from AA77. Huge difference my friend.

 
At 09 July, 2006 16:34, Blogger telescopemerc said...

Note that TWA800 was flying well above the ceiling for any and all portable missile systems. So it it was destroyed via missile, it was done with a missile from a ship at least Destroyer in size.

If such a craft fired a missile, every crewman would know of it. Especially if it was an accidental launch.

So all these crewmen managed to keep silence? I doubt it.

Another factor: There were simply no missile firing seacraft operating in the area where TWA800 blew up.

 
At 09 July, 2006 16:35, Blogger telescopemerc said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Salinger_Syndrome

 
At 09 July, 2006 16:50, Blogger BoggleHead said...

Apathoid, Since the claim that nobody saw this streaking object from the view of an airplane in the area at the time is untrue, it's also untrue that nobody in general saw it, although there's many witnesses who saw this streaking object.

Additionally, CNN reporting on what the FBI says about eyewitnesses in the air at the time is not Newsmax, etc.

Telescopemere, Taking the word of the Navy that it couldn't have been there so it doesn't exist begs the question of what it is and how it could terminate at the plane if its origin were, for example, the plane itself.

 
At 09 July, 2006 16:59, Blogger Killtown said...

apathoid said...Well, I dont have to read it killtown. I already know how seriously [explicative deleted] up in the head you are.

So how fcuked up in the head am I?

Btw, why are OCT's so vicious to people trying to find out what really happened?

But lets say I go to your blog and "debunk" you(which is not possible because you do not accept evidence).

Oh I don't, huh?

Will you, in turn, explain the 757 specific debris found at the Pentagon, all the eyewitness accounts of a large passenger jet, the DNA matches for flight 77's occupants, the fact that AA has a 757 missing, the fact that AA is missing all of AA77s flight crew, explain why noone saw AA77 land at its destination or anywhere else?.

Ok, but I've already addressed all that on my website.

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:03, Blogger apathoid said...

Killtown, when other CTers are calling you delusional, take a hint. Seek help.

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:03, Blogger Killtown said...

Shawn said...I've read your stuff on Flight 93 (and your stuff on the Pentagon). You just repeat the same debunked nonsense, or point out what you see as holes

You mean like how OCT's repeated the same debunked nonsense?

and explain where all the people are.

I wasn't a participant in the conspiracy, so how would I know?

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:16, Blogger shawn said...

You mean like how OCT's repeated the same debunked nonsense?

No, you don't seem to get it. There's a difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory. Conspiracies actually have support (Iran-Contra, Watergate, etc), conspiracy theories do not (Apollo, JFK, 9/11 "truth", etc).

We are not OCTs, we live in the real world.


Tell me, why does every structural engineer side with us? That's a tad odd, isn't it? oh that's right, because the scientific (objective) evidence supports us. Weird how that works.

I wasn't a participant in the conspiracy, so how would I know?

Excellent shield. "I'm not part of the conspiracy." (I kinda guessed that since you're not a member of al-Qaeda.) But I get what you're saying, you're not part of the "government conspiracy" (which doesn't exist). You can't hide behind the "I don't know, I'm not part of it." It's not a valid defense. You can't "debunk" the footage, you can't "debunk" the eyewitnesses, you can't "debunk" the physical remains of the plane (although Loose Change tried and failed miserably). Could you Orwellian assholes stop your postmodern dance where you separate words from their actual definitions and use them as antonyms (truth becomes lie, objective becomes subjective, evidence becomes bullshit, etc).

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:17, Blogger shawn said...

Ok, but I've already addressed all that on my website.

Yes, by using the same debunked nonsense that's been addressed over and over again. This is why we say you won't accept evidence. You won't. Anything that destroys your preconceived bias is just completely ignored and you run back to your echo chamber.

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:20, Blogger shawn said...

Killtown has created a website completely involved in a fantasy world where the rules of logic, reason, and evidence don't apply...just like these guys

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:26, Blogger Killtown said...

Shawn said...No, you don't seem to get it. There's a difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory. Conspiracies actually have support (Iran-Contra, Watergate, etc), conspiracy theories do not (Apollo, JFK, 9/11 "truth", etc).

Just because something has or doesn't have "support" doesn't mean it's true or not, it just means it's the "accepted" version.

We are not OCTs, we live in the real world.

You believe in the Official Conspiracy Theory don't you (19 Arabs instructed by OBL)?

Tell me, why does every structural engineer side with us? That's a tad odd, isn't it? oh that's right, because the scientific (objective) evidence supports us. Weird how that works.

How many do?

You can't hide behind the "I don't know, I'm not part of it." It's not a valid defense.

Ok, how am I susposed to where the passengers really went?

You can't "debunk" the footage

What footage?

you can't "debunk" the eyewitnesses

You mean like the one's who said it hit the lawn first and "cartwheeled" into the building?

This is why we say you won't accept evidence. You won't. Anything that destroys your preconceived bias is just completely ignored and you run back to your echo chamber.

I won't???

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:33, Blogger shawn said...

Just because something has or doesn't have "support" doesn't mean it's true or not, it just means it's the "accepted" version.

Ok this is how skepticism works: you accept whatever has the most evidence.

Or perhaps you haven't heard of Occam's Razor. It can be summed up as "keep it simple, stupid". Your grand conspiracies do not do that.

You believe in the Official Conspiracy Theory don't you (19 Arabs instructed by OBL)?

As I said, that's a conspiracy, CT is a derogatory term for ridiculous conspiracies.

How many do?

Zero side with you. Every one who's spoken on the subject is with us. Man, shouldn't you actually be well-read on this subject? You run a website about it and all.

Ok, how am I susposed to where the passengers really went?

You have to answer the question, not answer my question with a question. If we use Occam's Razor here's how it goes. Flight 77 was carrying passengers...that flight no longer exists...its parts were found in and around the Pentagon...ergo they were killed in the crash. That's of course ignoring the DNA evidence.

What footage?

There was footage of the Pentagon crash and it doesn't remotely resemble a missle (and I assume since you don't believe Pentagon was hit by a plane, you don't think WTC was either). Remember, there's no reason to lob a missle at the Pentagon when you have a plane hijacked and you've already crashed two.

You mean like the one's who said it hit the lawn first and "cartwheeled" into the building?

Source. Also, one guy? See how you morons work? If a hundred people saw the plane crash into the Pentagon, and one guy saw a smaller plane or saw it cartwheeled, all the other eyewitnesses should all be questioned now.

I won't???

Your site (and your comments to me at least) show that you won't. There's no evidence for a government conspiracy (unless you consider invading Iraq evidence) besides what's in people's heads. There's no solid evidence for anything but the 'official story'.

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:42, Blogger apathoid said...

What footage?

All the footage of a 767 plowing into the South Tower that you think is faked..

You mean like the one's who said it hit the lawn first and "cartwheeled" into the building?

Strawman.

Ok, how am I susposed to where the passengers really went?

You must have some idea if youre so sure AA77 didnt hit the Pentagon.

How many do?

I wouldnt say all of them, but easily 99% are in our corner, does that count for something?

I won't???

No, you dont, you explain it away(badly)..

Tell me, killtown, how do you feel about the Moon landings?(yes, this is relevant)
Did we land on Mars?
Did FDR know the Japanese were going to bomb Pearl at 0800 on Dec. 7?
Was TWA 800 shot down?
7/7 an inside job?
Illuminati exist?
UFO abductions?
Ghosts?
Clairvoyants??
Chemtrails?

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:48, Blogger Killtown said...

Shawn said...Or perhaps you haven't heard of Occam's Razor. It can be summed up as "keep it simple, stupid". Your grand conspiracies do not do that.

Actually, Occam's Razor sides with CT's!

As I said, that's a conspiracy, CT is a derogatory term for ridiculous conspiracies.

It's still a conpiracy theory! The gov't hasn't even proved their case yet!

Zero side with you.

Nice side-step. How many side with YOU?

You have to answer the question, not answer my question with a question.

I was just showing you how foolish it is to ask me a question I couldn't possibly answer. So for the easy answer, I don't know where there are. They are MIA as far as I'm concerned.

That's of course ignoring the DNA evidence.

From the same MILITARY base that identified all of UA 93's passengers?

There was footage of the Pentagon crash and it doesn't remotely resemble a missle

I've proven that footage was totally fabbed, and btw, not saying it was a missile, but it definitely looks more like a missile than a 757!

Source. Also, one guy?

See my witness page.

There's no evidence for a government conspiracy (unless you consider invading Iraq evidence) besides what's in people's heads. There's no solid evidence for anything but the 'official story'.

I think it is YOU who won't accept evidence. Go look at my 'smoking guns' page.

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:56, Blogger Killtown said...

You must have some idea if youre so sure AA77 didnt hit the Pentagon.

My guess would be as good as yours.

Tell me, killtown, how do you feel about the Moon landings?(yes, this is relevant)

We never never landed on the moon???

:-O

Did we land on Mars?
Did FDR know the Japanese were going to bomb Pearl at 0800 on Dec. 7?
Was TWA 800 shot down?
7/7 an inside job?
Illuminati exist?
UFO abductions?
Ghosts?
Clairvoyants??
Chemtrails?


In order:

I assume there is a lander on mars, but I could care less.
I don't know, did he?
I don't know, was it?
Yes, I believe 7/7 was. See Alex Jones' TerrorStorm.
Beats me, I don't care if they do or don't.
I don't know, have there been?
No.
Beats me.
Like "conspiracy chemtrials"? I never really investigated that and have little interest right now.

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:58, Blogger shawn said...

Actually, Occam's Razor sides with CT's!

Wow, that post was such a ridiculous rationalization of your thought process you'd be laughed out of any class on logic.

Occam's Razor says the simplest explanation is the best one (although you seem to forget the whole evidence aspect). Hijackers flying planes into buildings is a simpler explanation (and requires less assumptions and jumps and logic) than a vast government conspiracy, planned for years and having to involved at the least hundreds of people, used drone planes/no planes/etc to destroy the buildings to start wars and suppress our freedoms (especially since it's weird they wouldn't blame any Iraqis or plant WMDs in Iraq).

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:59, Blogger shawn said...

Yes, I believe 7/7 was. See Alex Jones' TerrorStorm.

Yeah, what a great person to turn too. Next I'll call up the National Alliance office to find out about the history of Judaism.

 
At 09 July, 2006 18:03, Blogger BoggleHead said...

Gratuitous nazi reference

 
At 09 July, 2006 18:05, Blogger shawn said...

Gratuitous nazi reference

All Nazis are white supremacists, but not all white supremacists are Nazis.

And I didn't mean anything by it, except that his post was ridiculous in who his source was.

 
At 09 July, 2006 18:06, Blogger apathoid said...

We never never landed on the moon???

Just to clarify:

Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and Micheal Collins were on the surface of the Moon in 1969(as well as a dozen or so other astronauts)?
It was NOT a hoax?
All this correct?

I don't know, did he?
I don't know, was it?
Beats me, I don't care if they do or don't.
I don't know, have there been?
Like "conspiracy chemtrials"?

You didnt pass my test, but you didnt do as badly as I thought you might. And you didnt really answer my questions either. When you answer question with questions it means you are trying to hide something..

My guess would be as good as yours.

Okay, what about the 757 reg# N644AA, where did it go? Any ideas?

 
At 09 July, 2006 18:08, Blogger shawn said...

Okay, what about the 757 reg# N644AA, where did it go? Any ideas?

The government obviously took it somwhere and erased it from the records. Isn't circular logic fun? C'mon, everyone! Join in!

 
At 09 July, 2006 18:16, Blogger Pat said...

avery dylan, I'm rapidly becoming a fan of your comments--love your profile as well. :)

 
At 09 July, 2006 18:17, Blogger BoggleHead said...

http://www.orgnet.com/prevent.html

all evidence is sui generis until proven otherwise

 
At 09 July, 2006 19:04, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Like, Hey man! I mean, you know, like sometimes, I burn the DVD's myself, and put up the posters, in the subway, but you have to be fast, and before you get uptown, you go through downtown twice. You know?

 
At 09 July, 2006 19:06, Blogger apathoid said...

Apathoid, Since the claim that nobody saw this streaking object from the view of an airplane in the area at the time is untrue, it's also untrue that nobody in general saw it, although there's many witnesses who saw this streaking object.

The internet is polluted with misinfo, disinfo, and bunch of archived inaccurate reports. I dont have to time to delve into this headfirst just to find a few instances of people claiming to see a missile.

Can you show me to a site that details all of the eyewitness accounts of missiles?

Additionally, CNN reporting on what the FBI says about eyewitnesses in the air at the time is not Newsmax, etc.

Ok, well all I see are CT sites spewing idiocy as usual when I try to search for anything useful like eyewitness reports. I cannot find where CNN said the FBI interviewed people who claim to be flying near 800 when it blew up..

Telescopemere, Taking the word of the Navy that it couldn't have been there so it doesn't exist begs the question of what it is and how it could terminate at the plane if its origin were, for example, the plane itself.

I have no idea what this means but I'll comment anyway. There was, in fact, a submarine in the area at the time of the accident. However, submarines are not and have never been equipped with anti-aircraft armament. Like in the case of 911, you refuse to address some of the difficult questions, namely
- If it was a US Navy vessel that fired the missle, why no whistleblowers?
- Why would a destroyer or cruiser being conducting missile drills 5 miles off shore in New York?
- Has the Navy ever accidentally fired a missile before?
- Assuming it was an accident, you are saying the US military, specifically the US Navy has no integrity and I take offense to that.
- Assuming it was ordered shot down, what is the motive?
- Why would the head "indy" investigator fake his sources and doctor ATC tapes to help prove his point?
- Why did Sallinger lie about his sources?
- Why did I personally install new fuel tank wiring harnesses and Transient Suppression Units on 23 older 737 and 767 models with high suseptibility to stray voltage spikes entering the fuel tanks...
The US airline industry has doled out hundreds of millions of dollars on these upgrades, per an FAA Airworthiness Directive.
Pretty involved coverup wouldnt you say?

 
At 09 July, 2006 19:14, Blogger Chad said...

Yes, and? I'm talking about the tail section hitting against the relatively soft limestone. It would have made a mark if it obliterated against it.

Uhm... Was the plane flying backwards in your brain?

I'm still trying to understand your obsession with "tail sections", KT. Why is that the only proof of a plane that you will accept?

Landing gears, engines, passengers body parts... All of those things were found (in addition to other plane parts). Yet you NEED there to be a tail section.

Why?

 
At 09 July, 2006 19:14, Blogger BoggleHead said...

"The FBI has acknowledged that some pilots in the area that night saw streaks of light but has not publicly identified those pilots."

--- CNN, http://www.cnn.com/US/9611/08/twa.salinger/index.html

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/CRASH/TWA/WIT/wit.html

 
At 09 July, 2006 19:16, Blogger BoggleHead said...

The latter link is to scans of actual interview reports of eyewitnesses interviewed by the Suffolk County Police.

one sees a projectile approaching the plane

one sees an orange flare

report of a white streak moving skyward

report of a flare shooting upward

report of grey smoke trail at "high rate of speed"

white light, thought it was fireworks

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

 
At 09 July, 2006 19:19, Blogger Unknown said...

What a ef-ing wasteland of comments. I guest since Pat's post doesn't rank as one of his more inspired, it's understandable that, with such a low standard set, what following is hooey.

Take a break and read some interesting stuff:

Trapped in the Wrong Paradigm: Three Handy Rules

 
At 09 July, 2006 19:24, Blogger BoggleHead said...

hey bg,

where do you think the 9/11 investigation stands?

 
At 09 July, 2006 19:24, Blogger Chad said...

BG, do you have any more Steve Jones MP3s?

 
At 09 July, 2006 19:56, Blogger Killtown said...

Shawn said...Occam's Razor says the simplest explanation is the best one (although you seem to forget the whole evidence aspect).

Yes and the simplest explaination as to why there are SO MANY coincidences surrounding 9/11 is that it was an inside job. That would explain ALL the coincidences.

Or are you a coincidence theorist?

Yeah, what a great person to turn too. Next I'll call up the National Alliance office to find out about the history of Judaism.

I don't care what you think of him personally, his 7/7 evidence was solid.

 
At 09 July, 2006 19:59, Blogger Killtown said...

apathoid said...You didnt pass my test, but you didnt do as badly as I thought you might. And you didnt really answer my questions either. When you answer question with questions it means you are trying to hide something..

Your test! Ha! Ok, here's "my test," do you believe any factions in the U.S. gov't has ever committed a conspiracy?

Okay, what about the 757 reg# N644AA, where did it go? Any ideas?

Nope. You?

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:01, Blogger apathoid said...

bogglehead, thanks for the links.
I will look into it more a bit later. The interesting that the streak reported by the helo crew was moving East-West not vertically, the flight was also moving East-West. I will say this, though. There is a helluva lot more "evidence" to a missile hitting 800 than there is a CD at the WTC..
I still trust the USN, FBI and NTSB.
If it was an accident, it wouldve come to light by a whistleblower. If it was ordered shot down, there is no motive...
On whistleblower laws:
In the United States, legal protections vary according to the subject matter of the whistleblowing, and sometimes the state in which the case arises. In passing the 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley Act, the Senate Judiciary Committee found that whistleblower protections were dependent on the "patchwork and vagaries" of varying state statutes. (Congressional Record p. S7412; S. Rep. No. 107-146, 107th Cong., 2d Session 19 (2002).) Still, a wide variety of federal and state laws protect employees who call attention to violations, help with enforcement proceedings, or refuse to obey unlawful directions.

Its been 10 years, most of the people who wouldve been on the firing cruiser would long since be out of the Navy, sorry. I know lack of whistleblowers dont phaze CTs, but at least it should make you think..

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:02, Blogger Killtown said...

Chad said...Uhm... Was the plane flying backwards in your brain?

I love OCT'ers methods of debate; insulting!

I'm still trying to understand your obsession with "tail sections", KT. Why is that the only proof of a plane that you will accept?

Landing gears, engines, passengers body parts... All of those things were found (in addition to other plane parts). Yet you NEED there to be a tail section.


Because it's not like I'm asking where a windshield wiper is, I'm asking where is a MAJOR part of the plane.

All of those things you mention could have been planted or lied about, I can't see how a giant tail section can disappear without a trace.

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:04, Blogger Murdervillage said...

If anyone can prove that things exist, I will publicly eat a pair of my shoes, with laces, AND a pair of socks that I've worn all day.

I've been researching this for THREE YEARS. No government shill is going to tell ME that things exist!

Go ahead, shills: show me that things exist.

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:08, Blogger apathoid said...

Your test! Ha! Ok, here's "my test," do you believe any factions in the U.S. gov't has ever committed a conspiracy?

Of course they have. Most of them are small, yet whistleblowers and leaks usually put a nail in the coffin of a conspiracy. Some really small conspiracies probably dont get out. 9/11 would be the biggest conspiracy in the history of mankind possibly and not a single whistle has been blown.

Nope. You?

Yep. Pentagon.

Do you see what a proper usage of Occams Razor wields?
You are making too many assumptions, which you've admitted you cant even explain...

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:10, Blogger Murdervillage said...

I agree with my friend Killtown. Airplanes that hit reinforced concrete structrures at high speed DO NOT break into small pieces! Anyone who doesn't know that is a fool, a tool, and a shill.

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:14, Blogger apathoid said...

I can't see how a giant tail section can disappear without a trace.

Delusion at its finest. Killtown, I showed you 2 crash scenes where there was nothing idetifiable, not even a tail. I showed you a video of an entire plane disintigrating on contact with a concrete wall.

I've asked for your explanation, and did not get one...

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:15, Blogger Killtown said...

Of course they have....9/11 would be the biggest conspiracy in the history of mankind possibly and not a single whistle has been blown.

See here.

Do you see what a proper usage of Occams Razor wields?
You are making too many assumptions, which you've admitted you cant even explain...


An inside job is the easiest way to explain why there are so many coincidences surrounding 9/11, in accordance with Occam's Razor.

What would you like me to explain?

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:18, Blogger Killtown said...

apathoid said...Killtown, I showed you 2 crash scenes where there was nothing idetifiable, not even a tail. I showed you a video of an entire plane disintigrating on contact with a concrete wall.

I've asked for your explanation, and did not get one...


Well 2 of you pics were from so far away that I couldn't tell what was what other than it did sort of look like an aircraft crash. So you provided bad examples.

The Sandia video actually works in my favor, however you'd have to read my blog to understand how it does.

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:20, Blogger Murdervillage said...

Apathoid said:
"I showed you a video of an entire plane disintigrating on contact with a concrete wall."

Hello? That video was made at NASA's Implosion Assembly Plant. The version you linked to is running BACKWARDS!

I can't believe you tried to pull that. I may have fallen off a turnip truck once or twice, but not recently, buddy.

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:22, Blogger Murdervillage said...

Killttown, I read your blog. Two thumbs up!

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:24, Blogger apathoid said...

Well 2 of you pics were from so far away that I couldn't tell what was what other than it did sort of look like an aircraft crash. So you provided bad examples.

You said it yourself, a tail is a major part of the aircraft and is usually large. The first photo I linked was of a DC-8, which is larger than a 757. the tail section is about 30 feet tail at least 2-3 times the size of the cars in the lot. Where is it? I dont see it. The second crash scene is indeed hard to make out, but do you see anything that resembles a plane?

The Sandia video actually works in my favor, however you'd have to read my blog to understand how it does.

Summarize it for me, or give me a direct link on your blog that talks about it....there is no way it works for your "where is the plane" theory...

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:26, Blogger apathoid said...

Hello? That video was made at NASA's Implosion Assembly Plant. The version you linked to is running BACKWARDS!

I can't believe you tried to pull that. I may have fallen off a turnip truck once or twice, but not recently, buddy.


Actually, I thought he'd argue that the F-4 was CGI and explosives took out the wall...

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:33, Blogger Murdervillage said...

Lay off Killtown. He has been researching this for years and I believe he has spoken to investigators and other supposed witnesses at each supposed crash scene, and not a single one claims that planes hit there or that passenger rmains were recovered.

Killtown 1, Investigators and "witnesses" 0.

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:36, Blogger Murdervillage said...

Killtown, I forget where on your website you have all those quotes from your interviews with the investigators and witnesses where they say they found no aircraft and human remains. Can you link to that again?

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:42, Blogger apathoid said...

Killtown, I forget where on your website you have all those quotes from your interviews with the investigators and witnesses where they say they found no aircraft and human remains. Can you link to that again?

Not to mention, the part that quotes all the witnesses who saw a missile, if its not too much to ask..

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:47, Blogger Killtown said...

apathoid said...Summarize it for me, or give me a direct link on your blog that talks about it

Man, i've been telling you to frickin read this blog post from the beginning! Now you'll know why your examples mean nothing for my challenge.

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/06/flight-77s-missing-tail-section.html

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:54, Blogger Alex said...

You know, in all of these posts I've yet to see any evidence that Killtown has a cranial section. Therefore he must be a cruise missile. Occam's razor proves it!

 
At 09 July, 2006 20:55, Blogger Murdervillage said...

Oh, maybe it was on your blog where I saw your interviews with all those people who were on the scenes.

Is that right, Killtown? I know you said you interviewed all those people. Can you point me to them again?

Thanks!

 
At 09 July, 2006 21:00, Blogger Murdervillage said...

I just read the "no tail" blog post again, and I heartily concur.

It's perfectly obvious that when a long, cylindrical airliner hits a concrete structure, it will go through that structure without bending or buckling, and the vertical stabilizer would be perfetcty upright when it hit. Anyone who says different will need to explain what universe their laws of physics apply to.

 
At 09 July, 2006 21:01, Blogger shawn said...

Delusion at its finest.

Pretty much. These people are beyond retarded. Can't understand how a plane's tail would disintegrate? A giant fucking fireball might be the answer. He still doesn't seem to fathom how this is a non-point.

Yes and the simplest explaination as to why there are SO MANY coincidences surrounding 9/11 is that it was an inside job. That would explain ALL the coincidences.

The thing about humans is we need to find patterns in the data, even when none exist. Heard of the Bible Code? Or recognize shapes in the clouds? All completely random things, that happen to coincide with images or events. Coincidences are called that for a reason.

Occam's Razor doesn't go with your thought process, I'm sorry. It just pisses me off that you think you use even the pretense of logic. You're just like the creationists who think science is on their side ('cause they can't understand that the eye, in all its complexity, could evolve randomly).

What would you like me to explain?

Explain away why the official story has more evidence for it than the "alternate theories".

I don't care what you think of him personally, his 7/7 evidence was solid.

Judging by how you deem what's solid or not, I'm gonna say he has less than zero evidence of any type of inside job.

 
At 09 July, 2006 21:02, Blogger shawn said...

Murdervillage is giving avery dylan a run for his money.

 
At 09 July, 2006 21:23, Blogger Killtown said...

Shawn said...Pretty much. These people are beyond retarded. Can't understand how a plane's tail would disintegrate? A giant fucking fireball might be the answer. He still doesn't seem to fathom how this is a non-point.

Do you think I believe the tail section should not have disintegrated?

Coincidences are called that for a reason.

So you can have as many coincidences surrounding an event as you want without it suggesting it's a conspiracy instead?

Explain away why the official story has more evidence for it than the "alternate theories".

It does? That's news to me! Do they have over 200 pieces of evidence pointing that the Arabs did it?

Judging by how you deem what's solid or not, I'm gonna say he has less than zero evidence of any type of inside job.

Aw, so you won't even review his evidence? Nice. Where's my blinders?

 
At 09 July, 2006 21:31, Blogger Murdervillage said...

Killtown, help me out. I'm still lost! Can't find where you talked to all those people who were at the scenes. I think it was 30 or 40 interviews, right?

Are those interviews on your blog or your website?

 
At 09 July, 2006 21:52, Blogger shawn said...

It does? That's news to me! Do they have over 200 pieces of evidence pointing that the Arabs did it?

Pal, you can fall a fish a monkey, but that doesn't mean it can climb.

So you can have as many coincidences surrounding an event as you want without it suggesting it's a conspiracy instead?

Kill, you may not know this, but coincidences are not evidence. there could be a billion coicidences around 9/11, but if you don't have the solid evidence, it doesn't matter at all.

Aw, so you won't even review his evidence? Nice. Where's my blinders?

Does he bring up the M16 connections like boggle does? You seem to think we all ignore all your fantasy rantings, we don't. Hell, I was one of you until I grew up.

 
At 09 July, 2006 21:57, Blogger apathoid said...

Coincidences?

Strange coincidences between Abraham Lincoln and John F Kennedy

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.




--break - adjust your tin hat



The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters.

Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.

Both of their wives lost their children while living in the White House.

Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.

Both were shot in the head.

Both were shot with one bullet.



--break - adjust your tin hat



Both were rumored to be killed in a conspiracy.
Neither was confirmed to be a conspiracy.

Lincoln was shot in the Ford Theater.
Kennedy was shot in a card made by the Ford Motor Company (a Lincoln no less)


Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.

Both were assassinated by Southerners.

Both were succeeded by Southerners.

Both successors were named Johnson.



--break - adjust your tin hat



Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.
Their first names both contain six letters.


John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839.
Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.
Both assassins were known by their three names.
Both names comprise fifteen letters.



--break - adjust your tin hat



Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse.
Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.

Both assassins were assassinated before their trials.

The only complete filming of Kennedy's assasination was shot by Abraham Zapruder.
The only complete account of Lincoln's assasination was written by John Zelfindorfer.



--break - adjust your tin hat



A week before Lincoln was shot, he was with friends in Monroe, Maryland.
A week before Kennedy was shot, he was with his friend Marilyn Monroe.

Lincoln's last child, Tad, had his funeral held on July 16, 1871.
Later he was exhumed and moved to a different grave site.
Kennedy's son JFK Jr. was lost at sea on July 16, 1999.
Later he was found, brought up, and then re-burried at sea.






I think this means that JFK had Abe Lincoln killed and in a bizarre retaliation plot, Lincoln has JFK killed and left us clues linking him to the crime......too many coincedences to say otherwise.

 
At 09 July, 2006 22:01, Blogger shawn said...

Just a correction: Kennedy was shot twice. (Because I know Killtown will completely miss your point and just point out irrelevant inconsistencies).

 
At 09 July, 2006 22:20, Blogger Killtown said...

Shawn said...Pal, you can fall a fish a monkey, but that doesn't mean it can climb.

I noticed you didn't answer my question.

Kill, you may not know this, but coincidences are not evidence. there could be a billion coicidences around 9/11, but if you don't have the solid evidence, it doesn't matter at all.

So you admit you're a coincidence theorist?

 
At 09 July, 2006 22:22, Blogger Killtown said...

apathoid said...Coincidences?

Strange coincidences between Abraham Lincoln and John F Kennedy


I don't see how those are coincidences, I'd say they are more like strange simularities. I mean what would be the conspiracy theory derived from all those "coincidences"?

 
At 09 July, 2006 22:23, Blogger shawn said...

I noticed you didn't answer my question.

I guess you didn't get my point. You say you have 200 hundred pieces of evidence. I bet I could find someone with hundreds of pieces of 'evidence' that the moon landing was faked.

Here's what you ignore: the people on the plane said Arabs had hijacked the plane, we have their documents, and we hear them speaking on the black boxes.

If you say that evidence is faked/planted then you are using circular logic and cannot be reasoned with.

 
At 09 July, 2006 22:24, Blogger shawn said...

So you admit you're a coincidence theorist?

There's no such thing as a coicidence theorists. Coincidences happen all the time. It's only people who don't understand that who through them together to make goofy insinuations.

 
At 09 July, 2006 22:27, Blogger shawn said...

Instead of reading/watching Alex Jones, read some James Randi and Michael Shermer. You might actually learn something. I know they were a revelation for me.

 
At 09 July, 2006 22:44, Blogger Killtown said...

Shawn said...Instead of reading/watching Alex Jones, read some James Randi and Michael Shermer.

Shermer??? I called him out on his 9/11 hit piece and he was too chicken shit to answer my questions! He is a FRAUD?

 
At 09 July, 2006 23:25, Blogger Murdervillage said...

Killtown, they are killing me. I told them that you swore you interviewed a whole bunch of people who investigated the "crash scenes."

Help me out! I can't find those interviews!

 
At 10 July, 2006 02:01, Blogger mcar abasa said...

acbnews.go.com/US/story?id=92525&page=1

How do you explain what happened to WTC 1, 2 and 7?

 
At 10 July, 2006 02:01, Blogger mcar abasa said...

acbnews.go.com/US/story?id=92525&page=1

How do you explain what happened to WTC 1, 2 and 7?

 
At 10 July, 2006 02:26, Blogger Alex said...

I don't see how those are coincidences, I'd say they are more like strange simularities. I mean what would be the conspiracy theory derived from all those "coincidences"?

I just about peed myself laughing when I read that. If you would only stop for a second and look at your "no tail" nonsense in the same way, you'd see exactly how retarded you seem to the rest of us.

 
At 10 July, 2006 04:52, Blogger Chad said...

All of those things you mention could have been planted or lied about, I can't see how a giant tail section can disappear without a trace.

Really? You can non-chalantly just plant a Boeing 757s landing gear or engines somewhere? An engine?!?!

And what about the even larger fuselage section? Why aren't you worried about that? Are you honestly thinking that tail section should've survived?

'Cause if so, then I think we know where to start your reparative therapy.

 
At 10 July, 2006 05:25, Blogger apathoid said...

I mean what would be the conspiracy theory derived from all those "coincidences"?

Well, thats exactly the point and you missed it. There couldn't possibly be a connection between the assisinations, hence, no possible conspiracy. Yet, these are very bizarre coincedences - and you would only find them if you went looking for them.
Its the exactly same with 9/11 "coincedences". If you look for patterns, you WILL find them...anywhere.

 
At 10 July, 2006 05:25, Blogger Alex said...

You can non-chalantly just plant a Boeing 757s landing gear or engines somewhere?

heh, I'm picturing a cartoon spy walking around..stops...glances around left to right, then quickly yanks a 757 landng gear strut out of his pocket, drops it in a corner, kicks some dirt on it and walks away, hands in pockets, whistling.

heh, whoever said CT fruitcakes didn't have their uses. they're always good for a laugh!

 
At 10 July, 2006 06:19, Blogger apathoid said...

heh, I'm picturing a cartoon spy walking around..stops...glances around left to right, then quickly yanks a 757 landng gear strut out of his pocket, drops it in a corner, kicks some dirt on it and walks away, hands in pockets, whistling.

Exactly!! They used a model airplane strut, good thinking Alex! Thats the kind of outside-the-box thinking we need more of in the movment. Like my main man bg said, we dont know how big that strut was. I agree, its obviously a miniaturized version of a 757 strut.

As far as MiBs, I think these guys fit the bill.
MiBs Plating "evidence"
Notice how the one guy is all crouched down trying to be sneaky.
Who do they think they are fooling with this charade? Truthers arent idiots you know!

Are you gonna put this up on your blog, killtown.
What more "evidence" do you need that "evidence" was planted?

 
At 10 July, 2006 08:16, Blogger shawn said...

Shermer??? I called him out on his 9/11 hit piece and he was too chicken shit to answer my questions! He is a FRAUD?

I didn't know pointing out inconsistent logic constitutes a "hit piece" nowadays. You morons don't seem to get that they don't have to answer to you.

Randi and Shermer are real skeptics, unlike you disgusting pseudoskeptics.

 
At 10 July, 2006 08:43, Blogger Good Lieutenant said...

Here's an odd coincidence.

BG, Killtown and Co. have been proven wrong by evidence eyewitnesses and history, and as such their supposed relevance (not to mention their funding sources) are in danger of drying up and whistling away into permanent irrelevance like broken wind.

Coincidence, or neo-con conspiracy to supress the real truth? Keep in mind - the definition of Occum's Razor, according to Killtown, is not actually the definition of Occum's Razor.

 
At 10 July, 2006 17:28, Blogger shawn said...

the definition of Occum's Razor, according to Killtown, is not actually the definition of Occum's Razor.

Yeah, it's hilarious how he doesn't understand OCcam's Razor. He says Occam's Razor explains a load of coincidences as a conspiracy...when it fact Occam's Razor would say they're a load of coincidences.

 
At 15 July, 2006 00:07, Blogger STH said...

Here are a few more of those 911 truth nuts...
Col. Robert Bowman
Former Director of Advanced Space Programs Development for the U.S. Air Force, under President Reagan, and combat fighter pilot
Ray McGovern
Former CIA Intelligence Advisor to Reagan and George HW Bush
George Nelson USAF Col.(Ret)
Aircraft crash investigation authority
Don de Grand-Pre USAF Col. (Ret)
Former chief Pentagon arms negotiator for the Middle East.

Probably just a bunch of Keebler elves

 
At 16 August, 2006 16:40, Blogger cumatac said...

u guys a crazy... 9-11 was an inside job it was created to scare us into giving up all of our freedoms ur average ignorant negro on the streets knows it... u jews should get a job! and get off of welfare... (U.S. Loans) the propanda does not work on intelligent people -it really doesnt matter if the other group of nuts u persecute have it right the basics are evident... 9-11 was an inside job... how they did it i dunno, it did look like a controlled demolition to me though but hey like i said... im just an ignant negro (or worse) on the streets -wake up, here is a documetary for u since you didnt like loose change.....


BBC Special "The Power of Nightmares" google it and wake the hell up the same cats have been beating all of the war drums sice Vietnam -and they didnt learn shit obviously

 
At 02 April, 2007 23:50, Blogger Artifact said...

5-sided building? Why do they call it the Pentagon? I don't get it.

Anyway, I'm releasing a documentary that I made. After extensive research (online for 3 days) I've determined conclusively that 9/11 WAS a false flag event...meaning, it never happened. The WTC buildings are actually still standing, we just can't see them with the urban camoflage techniques employed by the NWO. I'll release my documentary on DVD. It will be free of charge, but you have to pay $89.99 for shipping and handling. Hey, I'm not looking to profit here, I just want to get the truth out there.

 

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