Thursday, September 28, 2006

But The Thrill We've Never Known...

Is the thrill that'll gitcha when you git your picture on the cover of the Rolling Stone!

Well, the Loosers don't get their picture on the cover of the Rolling Stone, but they do get it on the webpage accompanying this terrific article by Matt Taibbi.

I don't have the space here to address every single reason why 9/11 conspiracy theory is so shamefully stupid, so I'll have to be content with just one point: 9/11 Truth is the lowest form of conspiracy theory, because it doesn't offer an affirmative theory of the crime.

Forget for a minute all those Internet tales about inexplicable skyscraper fires, strange holes in the ground at Shanksville and mysterious flight manifestoes. What is the theory of the crime, according to the 9/11 Truth movement?

Strikingly, there is no obvious answer to that question, since for all the many articles about "Able Danger" and the witnesses who heard explosions at Ground Zero, there is not -- at least not that I could find -- a single document anywhere that lays out a single, concrete theory of what happened, who ordered what and when they ordered it, and why. There obviously is such a theory, but it has to be pieced together by implication, by paying attention to the various assertions of 9/11 lore (the towers were mined, the Pentagon was really hit by a cruise missile, etc.) and then assembling them later on into one single story. But the funny thing is, when you put together all of those disparate theories, you get the dumbest story since Roman Polanski's Pirates.

Hat Tip: Shrinker at the JREF forums.


At 28 September, 2006 17:02, Blogger shawn said...

Could you stop making me feel somewhat good about publications and people I've hated since I was 15?

(Although that asshole did go overboard when he compared Fox watchers to conspiracy theorists. He needs to learn about strawmen.)

At 28 September, 2006 17:11, Blogger Yatesey said...

I can't wait to read the responses and see which diversions are tossed in this time.

Might Nesnyc rear his ugly head?

At 28 September, 2006 17:17, Blogger MarkyX said...

Rolling Stone is full of Jews.

Hey, it's easy to be an Nesync!

At 28 September, 2006 17:50, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

I have to say that is one of my new favorite articles.

The BUSH/CHENEY/RUMSFELD dialogue had me rolling off my chair.



At 28 September, 2006 18:21, Blogger default.xbe said...

"Rolling Stone is full of Jews.

Hey, it's easy to be an Nesync!

you forgot the phrase "its well established" because that makes whatever you say true :)

At 28 September, 2006 19:48, Blogger CHF said...

I hope someone finally puts together a narrative tying together all 9/11 conspiracies.

RS is right - it would be fuckin' hilarious!

At 28 September, 2006 19:58, Blogger CHF said...

The entire movement consists of pointing out "holes" in the OS with no regard for whether or not those holes actually add up to anything that makes sense.

At 28 September, 2006 21:56, Blogger Triterope said...

To properly imitate NesNYC, you must also post a link to some vaguely related Google results.

At 28 September, 2006 22:42, Blogger Pat said...

If it helps, Shawn, I've got one Taibbi Scalp on my wall--I forced him to issue a retraction to a story a couple years ago.

At 29 September, 2006 01:19, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

Slightly off-topic; Spooked911 has
declared American democracy dead.

I offered him some "monday morning quarterbacking". But I don't think he took it well.

I don't know why he still lets me post there.

At 29 September, 2006 05:18, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Like hey, man, I mean, we posed for that picture 'cause we're cooler than you!

Oh, man I'm glad they used that one - you can't tell if Korey took the lens cap off can you?

Box cutters ha ha ha ha

At 29 September, 2006 05:19, Blogger JoanBasil said...

"I don't have the space here " - but he's got 4 pages for a name calling article. Why were the Bukharis ever in the mix of 9/11 as suspects, Mr. Taibbi? One of them was dead on 9/11 (the other is still alive) but the FBI had the 2 of them renting one of the cars and on the passenger lists per news reports at the time. How did those names get in there unless someone was collecting Arab identities prior to 9/11? What other possible answer is there to that?

The basic premise that those who distrust the official version have to provide an "affirmative theory" is tellingly weak. There only has to be one fatal flaw in the official version and then . . . its not true!

At 29 September, 2006 05:34, Blogger Rowe_Korey said...


Why did you make me get on my knees for that picture?

At 29 September, 2006 06:20, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

Wrong Joan, in order to prove a theory you need to start with a hypothesis. That means while you point out "holes" in a competing theory you need to at least be able to explained what happens in your hypothesis. The Twoofers can't do that. In fact, many of their claims about "holes"(which usually aren't holes) actually CONTRADICT their competing claims.

For example, someone claiming "thermate" was responsible usually has nothing against talking about "pulverized concrete". Well CD charges DON'T pulverize concrete but THERMATE DEFINITELY WON'T PULVERIZE ANYTHING.

The failure of the American public education system is tragic.

At 29 September, 2006 07:20, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was just reading through the comments on that R.S. article (which was hilarious, a very thorough mocking) and it was a little discouraging. In fact, I've noticed that most online articles critical of 9/11 conspiracy theories get an overwhelmingly negative response. Even on Youtube, the debunking stuff is consistently rated lower than Loose Change (and its clones).

A lot of it is probably just high-school internet rebellion, but that concerns me even more. All this 9/11 conspiracy propaganda is poisoning a whole generation of youngstas minds. Even if most of them grow out of it, a lot of people with otherwise healthy brains will spend the rest of their lives never learning to examine evidence and come to rational conclusions.

Not all the CT's are off their rocker or stupid. Take joanbasil, for instance. She's (I presume she) clearly savvy and well-spoken. She has no outward emotional investment in conspiracy theories - e.g. nesnyc's hatred of jews. Yet she's here almost every day, cutting-and-pasting the latest truth-cult red herring.

What are we - the real truth movement - doing wrong that we're not getting through to people like her? Should we even care about the emerging subculture of paranoia in America? OK, sorry about the rant. I don't have any answers, it was just something I had on my mind this morning.

At 29 September, 2006 07:47, Blogger Manny said...

Should we even care about the emerging subculture of paranoia in America?

Well, the consolation prize is that even as America completes its transition to a knowledge economy we'll still have a large base of people to launder our shirts, put our fast food into bags, seperate recyclables from the waste stream, etc. You know how progressives like to be concerned about income inequality? Well, by meeting the twoofers you're basically interacting with the future unequal.

At 29 September, 2006 08:21, Blogger Alex said...

Why were the Bukharis ever in the mix of 9/11 as suspects, Mr. Taibbi?

Are you retarded? Seriously? How many times do you need to have the same thing explained to you before you'll "get it"?

Take joanbasil, for instance. She's (I presume she) clearly savvy and well-spoken.

I don't know about that. Her constant repetition of talking points coupled with her inability to actually understand any of the answers we give her....well she certainly doesn't seem "savvy", let's just say that.

She has no outward emotional investment in conspiracy theories - e.g. nesnyc's hatred of jews.

No outward emotional investment maybe. Doesn't mean there isn't an emotional investment though, just that it's harder to see. My guess? She went through life not believing in much. Was probably successful enough in everything she attempted, but never found any real meaning to any of it. As they get older, people in her situation tend to find religion, or meditation, or try to save the environment. For her, it's the 9/11 denial movement. It gives her life some meaning, makes her feel like she's part of the fight for a worthwhile cause. That's definitely an "emotional investment".

At 29 September, 2006 09:00, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

So this week the Bukhari's are the "topic of the week" for the CTers. Last week it was "the Pakistani Connection". Whats next week Joan...can ya give us the heads up on what you and the CTers will be derailing every blog post with next week??


At 29 September, 2006 10:25, Blogger CHF said...


Don't worry about the twoofers.

I would start worrying if a twoof rally drew tens of thousands of people. I would worry if a political party spouted this crap and had wide support.

But in reality, this is a small internet-based movement that has fooled itself into thinking they're bigger than they are. The Ground Zero debacle on 9/11/06 was a perfect example.

Most will grow out of it as they leave high school. As for the rest, they're the same people who would be blabbing on about chem trails and Big Foot were it not for 9/11.

The mentally deranged have always been among us and always will, so I prefer to see them for what they are: comedy gold.

At 29 September, 2006 12:13, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just get a little worried when I see things like this. Somehow the CT's have managed to convince over a third of Americans (if the Scripps poll is to be believed) that they're at least partially right.

It is funny you don't see any mass protests, though. It's like they're embarrassed to admit their convictions.

hopefully the anchor-thing worked, I've never tried it in a blogspot comment...

At 29 September, 2006 12:58, Blogger JoanBasil said...

thank you for your nice comments. You are correct that I don't have that feeling of emotional involvement. I'm not out to run the world but I do think that truth crushed to earth will rise again and the mills of God grind slowly but they grind exceeding fine.

Why do you think I'm bringing up talking points? I'm the only one I ever see bringing up the Bukharis and I'd really like an answer. No one has an answer to how these men could have been reported as suspects, renting a car, on the passenger lists. You can look them up in Wikipedia and here's part of the entry:

"A Saudi flight engineer, Adnan Zakaria Bukhari (Arabic: ادنان زكريا بخري) was initially reported by CNN to be one of the hijackers aboard American Airlines Flight 11 as part of the September 11, 2001 attacks - his name was even said to have been on the flight manifest.

Between 5:00 and 5:30 on the morning of September 12, FBI agents backed by a SWAT team stormed Bukhari's leased house at 4036 57th Terrace and arrested him - citing that identity cards of him and an Ameer Bukhari (mistakenly thought to be a brother) were found in a rental car the hijackers had left in Portland, Maine; though it later turned out that Ameer had died a year earlier, and had no relation to Adnan."

How could these men have been in the mix of 9/11 unless someone was collecting Arab identities? Especially Arabs in Florida with pilot licenses.

At 29 September, 2006 13:10, Blogger JoanBasil said...

regarding mass protests - you won't see them.

The polls on the Iraq war have a majority saying it was a mistake but how many go to protests? A small, tiny fraction.

People don't go to protests but they form opinions and then you can't tell them something that they don't believe. Five years from now, there'll be the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks and where will the public be? Time goes pretty quick. I didn't start hearing about the 9/11 Truth Movement until late last year or early this year and now its everywhere.

At 29 September, 2006 13:26, Blogger zippychippy said...

I can't help but laugh when someone quotes a wiki as a credible sourse.

At 29 September, 2006 14:17, Blogger Alex said...


Joan, you're an idiot, but this ONE LAST TIME, I'm going to answer your idiotic Bukhari question. You must have missed this part of the same wiki page that you quoted:

"Bukhari gave lessons to Saudi Arabian Airlines pilots at the FlightSafety Academy in Vero Beach, where several of the hijackers had trained."

So we've got a Saudi/Muslim instructor at the same flight school where the hijackers did their training. Sorta raises suspicion, huh? Not exactly conclusive evidence, but that would probably be why HE WAS RELEASED.

More importantly, what the hell does any of that have to do with your idiotic conspiracy theories? You think George Bush planned the world's greatest conspiracy, and then forgot to make sure that the people he was going to blame for it were under his control? Are you that daft? And why would the FBI release him? If they're going to frame a bunch of hijackers, might as well frame him as well. If it had been a conspiracy they'd know that releasing him would open them up to exactly the sort of questions you're asking now.

Once again, none of what you're suggesting makes sense. All that you can do is "ask questions", but when we ask for an alternative theory you have absolutely nothing to offer.

At 29 September, 2006 14:23, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How could these men have been in the mix of 9/11 unless someone was collecting Arab identities?

You said it yourself. They found his name on some identification cards in Mohammed Atta's rented Nissan. You're right about one thing, someone was collecting Arab identities: Mohammed Atta and the hijackers. Probably for aliases, I don't know. It makes sense that the hijackers - some of whom were in the country illegally - would keep false ID's of legal Arab pilots on hand.

Nothing about this incident shows U.S. complicity in, or foreknowledge of, the attacks. It's just an example of the confusion in the days after the attack. If anything the incident reinforces how little the U.S. government knew at the time.

At 29 September, 2006 20:39, Blogger shawn said...

I didn't start hearing about the 9/11 Truth Movement until late last year or early this year and now its everywhere.

It isn't "everywhere". You'd be surprised how many people aren't up on internet fringe groups.

At 30 September, 2006 04:40, Blogger JoanBasil said...

Its very convenient to say Mohammed Atta was collecting Arab identities like its convenient to have him going to Baghdad, being named by the Fat Osama, and meeting with Saddam's agents in Prague.

Why was someone collecting Arab pilot identities prior to 9/11? Clearly someone was or these Bukharis would be no where in the mix of 9/11. Why throw in fake Arab identities unless the real perpetrators aren't Arabs?

At 30 September, 2006 12:52, Blogger shawn said...

being named by the Fat Osama

You mean the Osama, that if you watch the entire video, looks exactly like OSama bin Laden?

There's a picture of me that makes me look like the lead singer of Alien Ant Farm, but if you watched a video of me you'd never make the connection.

At 01 October, 2006 09:37, Blogger default.xbe said...

Why throw in fake Arab identities unless the real perpetrators aren't Arabs?

actually you have that backwards, if they were trying to collect names that they could identify themselves as they would want names that matched their faces

example: you have a arabian-looking man who speaks broken english with a heavy middle eastern accent, he identifies himself as john smith

this is immediately suspicious of being a fake name, since i dont there there are many middle eastern people names john or smith

conversely: a clean cut blond white man indenifying himself as abdulaziz alomari is equally suspicious, the name doesnt match the face


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