Tuesday, December 05, 2006

RIP, Wendy Burlingame

This is certainly sad news. Wendy Burlingame, whose father Charles F. Burlingame was the original pilot of Flight 77, the plane that crashed into the Pentagon, dies in a suspicious blaze in New Jersey.

The woman, Wendy Burlingame, 32, was discovered by firefighters in a short hallway between the kitchen and the bedroom of her 10th-floor apartment where the four-alarm fire began, said Edward DeFazio, the Hudson County prosecutor. Mr. DeFazio said the fire, which law enforcement officials are calling suspicious, began shortly after midnight in the apartment Ms. Burlingame shared with her companion and was still under investigation, as was the cause of Ms. Burlingame’s death. No one else was injured in the fire, Mr. DeFazio said.


How long before Deniers begin speculating that perhaps her death is part of the conspiracy? BTW, Ms Burlingame first came to our attention when she blasted the Loosers in a post over at their old forum. Unfortunately the post has been disappeared, but you can see a screen capture and discussion of it here.

Update: Well, it's begun. The 25 percenters over at 9-11 blogger are speculating away.

Update II: Debra Burlingame has a piece in the Wall Street Journal today, obviously written prior to her niece's death, about the six imams thrown off the plane in Minneapolis. Get this detail:

"Allahu Akbar" was just the opening act. After boarding, they did not take their assigned seats but dispersed to seats in the first row of first class, in the midcabin exit rows and in the rear--the exact configuration of the 9/11 execution teams. The head of the group, seated closest to the cockpit, and two others asked for a seatbelt extension, kept on board for obese people. A heavy metal buckle at the end of a long strap, it can easily be used as a lethal weapon. The three men rolled them up and placed them on the floor under their seats.

72 Comments:

At 05 December, 2006 23:26, Blogger Democrat said...

Flight 77 you mean?

A tragic death.

 
At 06 December, 2006 05:56, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Flight 778? Better change that or will make you part of the conspiracy too! Hey what is up democrat?

 
At 06 December, 2006 06:06, Blogger Democrat said...

I don't know, SD. It looks like I have to switch to the OS side since I have been beaten, yelled at and accused of being a liar. If that happens to a person, the OS must be true. Such arguments are really overwhelming...

 
At 06 December, 2006 06:10, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

I use to enjoy debating on here. I'll admit, I've been wrong and switched my position on one point, the silverstein comment, but it is too bad the vast majority of OS'ers follow the lyingdylan/Alex tactic. Doesn't make it fun anymore eh?

I actualy tried to remain on the high ground, but I've lowered my standards on a few posts. The blog is basically an OS fan club were OS'ers come to fell important because they can call people liars, and more importantly ignore any information that destroy's their Disneyland view of the world.

 
At 06 December, 2006 06:12, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Another point, the creators of LC get the stick for making an error in the B-52 statement yet Flight 778 gets no attention? ;)

 
At 06 December, 2006 06:26, Blogger Democrat said...

The major point is that doubting the OS does not mean that you have to be on the sides of mini-nukes or beam weapons.

There is no truth moment, just a lot of people that want answers and do not buy the story until properly investigated.

If someone wants to put a 'doubter' in that small box of crazy people, please put the Press for Truth women in that same box each time and be proud of it. Please send these relatives e-mails stating that they are loonies, liars and dumb asses too.

Amazing how people can hold on to someone else's OS. Look at the face of this clown, what is he hiding? More curiously, why don't OS defenders appear wanting to know?

Is Press for Truth a danger to the country or so?

 
At 06 December, 2006 06:41, Blogger Pat said...

Fixed the flight number; it was a case of me typing too fast and not re-reading before posting.

 
At 06 December, 2006 06:50, Blogger Pat said...

As for the Jersey Girls, I'm not impressed with the "questions" they raise in Press for Truth, but they don't appear to buy into the looney conspiracy theories, they just want heads to roll, especially President Bush's.

 
At 06 December, 2006 07:36, Blogger Lying_Dylan said...

Typcial of SD and Democrat to make it all about "me me me!!!" on a thread about a victim.

BOXCUTTERS HA HA HA HA HA!

 
At 06 December, 2006 08:37, Blogger James B. said...

The moonbats are already working this tragedy into their conspiracy theories.

911 Blogger

 
At 06 December, 2006 08:38, Blogger Democrat said...

Indeed, purchasing your main weapons of choice just the day before your planned attack and even have to ask directions to Wall Mart to do so.

Someone really wanted to leave an enormous trail. Remember, the name is "Atta, A-T-T-A".

It just does not make any sense.

 
At 06 December, 2006 08:49, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Exactly Demo. Lets say I bring up accountability and who is to blame. You will hear the echos:
LIAR! MOONBAT! TERRORIST SUPPORTER!
NUTJOB! TOOFER! CTER! ANTI-SEMITE!
MOON LANDING CRAZY! GRASS GNOLLER!
ITS ALL ABOUT YOU!!! LOONY!

Yeah, Democrat. If I were a terrorist I would certainly leave multiple paper trails, leave the purchase of every terrorists weapon of choice to the day before the attacks, leave my sacred texts behind, make sure I rent an apartment from an FBI informant and pray for stupidity on the FBI's part, hobknob with strippers, ahh the list goes on.

 
At 06 December, 2006 08:50, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Lying DylanT ypcial of SD and Democrat to make it all about "me me me!!!" on a thread about a victim. I guess that makes you guilty as well eh?

 
At 06 December, 2006 08:51, Blogger James B. said...

Oh yeah, but thermite, cruise missiles disguised as jetliners, and star wars death rays, THAT makes sense.

 
At 06 December, 2006 09:16, Blogger Jujigatami said...

If I were a terrorist I would certainly leave multiple paper trails, leave the purchase of every terrorists weapon of choice to the day before the attacks, leave my sacred texts behind, make sure I rent an apartment from an FBI informant and pray for stupidity on the FBI's part, hobknob with strippers

You know, they weren't worried about being caught, they were planning on being dead.

Why wouldn't you leave a paper trail if you are planning on being dead. Wouldn't you WANT someone to know without a doubt that YOU are the one that did it? You aren't going to be able to claim responsibility, you'll be dead.

And when you rent an apartment, do you ask the landlord if they are an FBI informant? I own 3 rental apartments, and I've never been asked that by any of my tennants. Then if I was, I'd probably call the FBI immediately. How are they supposed to know their landlord was a FBI informant on an unrelated case?

As for the hobnobbing with strippers, I know plenty of religious people that would normally never step in to a strip club, but on the day before their wedding go pretty nuts. I would think that if you know you are going to die, maybe you'd do the same.

/why bother

 
At 06 December, 2006 09:23, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 06 December, 2006 09:29, Blogger Democrat said...

Like Oswald purchasing some expensive jewelry (or whatever it was) making sure his name was spelled correctly:

"No no no, O-S-W-A-L-D".

What a laugh.

 
At 06 December, 2006 09:31, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Juji Fair enough I can accept those points.
Question. A terrorist by definition claims responsibility to enact social or political change.

1. Were there any claims by the 19 of responsibility that would have been for public release? What political or social change were they dying for?

2. Why should I consider the OBL confession (suspect tape) non-confession/ as authentic in reference to the 9/11 attacks when he wasn't the Mastermind?

 
At 06 December, 2006 09:34, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

James b. Why do you guys do that? You try to lump one or two people into those that believe some truly unbelieveable theories. Cruise missiles disguised as planes? Beam weapons? I know that is a logic tactic to discredit one by applying all points to the single person.

Personally I have never endorsed the beam weapons 'theory' although the technology is certainly there.
I have never endoresed the no-plane theory. I have never endorsed the lone missile Pentagon theory. Yet you want to throw me into that bag of coal. For your 1000's of readers that have any sense, be aware of this tactic. ;)

Let me ask you this, is it too much of a stretch of the imagination to think that Islamic radicals planted explosives in the buildings? I mean didn't they do that once already with limited success with a truck? Of course! Somebody did at OKC with great success. But change Islamic radical to an 'insider' and POOF the possiblity no longer exists.

Try looking at the facts as if a terrorist were responsible and NOT an 'insider'. Do you come to the same conclusions of impossiblity? Some OS regular on here apprently didn't think so. I don't remember who it was

 
At 06 December, 2006 09:35, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Juji Great analogy with the wedding and dying! ;)

 
At 06 December, 2006 09:36, Blogger shawn said...

This is why you people are idiots - it doesn't matter if the Nineteen left their names everywhere. Nobody can prosecute you when you're dead.

If you guys had come here months ago you wouldn't have been insulted to kingdom come. You just keep repeating debunked points and it gets really old really fast.

 
At 06 December, 2006 09:37, Blogger shawn said...

What a laugh.

It's also hilarious how he owned the gun used, was seen in the building after Kennedy was shot, and killed a police officer in order to avoid arrest.

Keep being an idiot, though.

 
At 06 December, 2006 09:38, Blogger shawn said...

Personally I have never endorsed the beam weapons 'theory' although the technology is certainly there.

No, it isn't. Beam weapons do not exist.

 
At 06 December, 2006 09:54, Blogger Murdervillage said...

I'd like to suggest that people not let this thread degenerate into the usual bickering. Try to keep things in perspective.

 
At 06 December, 2006 09:55, Blogger Democrat said...

It's also hilarious how he owned the gun used, was seen in the building after Kennedy was shot, and killed a police officer in order to avoid arrest.

Keep being an idiot, though.


'Owning' a gun is easy if somebody wants you to. Remember: "No no no, Oooooswald it is spelled", and you own a gun.

He stated to have been outside of the building, watching the parade. Killed a cop; Jack Ruby you mean?

Please let me be the idiot that does not buy hijackers running around like they are rock stars, shouting their identity of the roofs of casino's, drinking till they drop, and misbehave. It's really the disguise you would use when planning the most evil plot of the century.

 
At 06 December, 2006 09:57, Blogger ScottSl said...

Swing Dangler, I would suggest watching the hijackers on video talking about it themselves.

You see video of the last wills of some of the hijackers.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aBa252lC4uA&mode=related&search=

 
At 06 December, 2006 10:10, Blogger Jujigatami said...

1. Were there any claims by the 19 of responsibility that would have been for public release? What political or social change were they dying for?

2. Why should I consider the OBL confession (suspect tape) non-confession/ as authentic in reference to the 9/11 attacks when he wasn't the Mastermind?


Not all terrorists leave tapes or letters. Look at all of the suicide bombings going on in Iraq. Almost none of them have the famous "martyrdom" tapes like the Palestinians use.

There were no tapes from the madrid bombings, none that I know of from the Bali bombings.

My guess as to why they didn't make any tapes is that they thought KSM or Bin Laden would handle it after they had entered heaven.

As for your second question, why should you consider any statement by any corporate CEO? Usually the CEO's have little to do with the "masterminding" of operations, and virtually nothing to do with the actual work. But when a company does something great, you can be sure the CEO is the one making the rounds claiming responsibility and taking the praise. Conversely, when a company does something bad, the CEO's head is usually the one to roll, whether or not they had anything to do with it, and usually they didn't even know about it (sure there are plenty of corrupt CEO's, but most have little knowelege of day to day operations)

Do you really expect OBL NOT to take credit for it? Even if his underling was really the mastermind? Did you really expect him to say "I had only a little bit of involvement with 9/11, I want to send props out to my main man KSM, who really masterminded the whole plan, I was just a figurehead, and I paid some of the bills."

Really?

Come on.

 
At 06 December, 2006 10:12, Blogger troy said...

Alex Jones is just loving it that this woman died.

Asshole.

 
At 06 December, 2006 10:14, Blogger ScottSl said...

Jujigatami, they DID make tapes, see post above.

 
At 06 December, 2006 10:18, Blogger shawn said...

'Owning' a gun is easy if somebody wants you to. Remember: "No no no, Oooooswald it is spelled", and you own a gun.

Oh, so this isn't the reason we know he owned it?

He stated to have been outside of the building, watching the parade.

Ah, so you're taking his word for it? I'm sure he'd say "Oh, I was upstairs shooting the president and then ran downstairs."

Killed a cop; Jack Ruby you mean?


What are you talking about? Ruby killed him. Oswald killed Officer Tippit before he was arrested.

 
At 06 December, 2006 10:39, Blogger Stevew said...

The AQ manual says that it is very inportant that you blend in

 
At 06 December, 2006 11:32, Blogger Curt Cameron said...

democrat wrote:
He stated to have been outside of the building, watching the parade. Killed a cop; Jack Ruby you mean?

Here in this one paragraph you show how little you know about the JFK matter. Oswald didn't claim he was outside watching, he claimed he was inside the lunchroom eating.

And the "cop = Jack Ruby" thing is just bizarre. You're embarrassing yourself (you should be).

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:00, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

As for your second question, why should you consider any statement by any corporate CEO?
I was placing that in the perspective of the PLO and Yasser Arafat and his successful CEO run as a terrorist and then later as a politician.

As the leader of a terrorist organization, I would expect him (OBL)to take full credit for the operation. But instead we find a 'shaddy' confession tape and then later a full rebuttal to the attacks. Now why would he go and do such a thing considering his position in the Islamic-political-terrorist world? Why wouldn't he be shouting at the roof tops to all of those who hate America to the tune of "My 19 just thawrted the FBI, the CIA, airport security, passengers, and the American defense establishment, and achieved a near total success rate, caused untold millions of dollars in damage, murdered 1000's of innocent people because I hate America's free....err scratch that...because I want Afghanistan controlled by America...err scratch that..because I want the U.S. to control Iraq...err scratch that.!
You get the point. The PLO and Arafat if responsible would have had no problem and no controversy taking credit for the attacks.

Scott... I would suggest watching the hijackers on video talking about it themselves.
Thanks Scott, but I can't access that site from my tin foil office. I did look it up however. Unless we are talking about a different video, I don't think we can conclude that it is a 'why I did it for the Jihad' tape or this is 'my terrorist motive.'
According to NBC News:
The Times reported that it obtained a copy of the videotape that is the original source for these still photos. The videotape was recorded without any audio, and FBI and Pentagon officials tell NBC News that they used Arabic linguists to try to lip-read the tape — especially the martyrdom speeches by Atta and Jarrah. The lip-reading effort was largely fruitless, the officials say.
y Jim Popkin
Senior Investigative Producer
NBC News
Updated: 8:10 p.m. ET Oct 1, 2006

Sorry I can't accept that as terrorists motivations be it political or social change. Sounds to me like instead of funding terrorists, OBL, needs to fund an A/V specialist from those caves he hides in.

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:04, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Shawn! Hey guy I have the exact magazine that photo is from. That photo is a complete fraud. You can actually see the cut-n-paste/crop mark under his nose where his head was pasted onto his body. It also does a nice job of showing the different chin bone surgery LHO went through during that brief period of time. ;)
Sorry but that is not going to help your stance.
Date: Life Magazine Cover Feb. 21, 1964.

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:12, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Shawn Beam weapons don't exist??? Man I just love proving OS'ers wrong.

Tesla and the Beam
http://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_wendwar.html

Beam weapons almost ready for battle
Directed energy could revolutionize warfare, expert says
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10805240/

Introducing the Particle-Beam Weapon
Dr. Richard M. Roberds
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/
ureview/1984/jul-aug/roberds.html


Microwave beam weapon to disperse crowds
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1470

Report: Raytheon 'heat beam' weapon ready for Iraq
Boston Business Journal - December 1, 2004
http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2004/11/29/daily30.html

Energy beam weapon may lower Iraq civilian deaths
By Steven Komarow, USA TODAY
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-07-24-energy-beam_x.htm


We have also taken a little time to dig up some interesting white papers on the subject of lasers and their relationship to space based weaponry from the U.S. Air Force's War College (Occasional Papers) section:

* Lasers in Space - Mark E. Rogers, Lieutenant Colonel, USAF
* Lasers and Missile Defense - William H. Possel, Lt Col, USAF
* Weaponization Of Space - Thomas D. Bell, Lt Col, USAF

MILNET presents a summary of current information on these:

* AirBorne Laser - Multi-Megawatt Laser on a 747
* Airborne Tactical Laser - Highly accurate low altitude based laser for attacks on SAMs, Battlefield rockets, or urban assault in support anti-terror, etc.
* THEL MIRACL - White Sands Ground Based Laser, can destroy aircraft or satellites on orbit
* ALI on VentureStar Supposition that the Alpha Lamp Integration system could be carried on the X-33/X-34 spacecraft.
http://www.milnet.com/lasers.htm


I don't need to go on, Shawn. But how can we expect to take your arguements be it the OS of 9/11 or beam weapons seriously if you lie to us?

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:26, Blogger Triterope said...

I only hope that every one of these conspiracy theorists will someday have to go through what they've put the Burlingame, Lyles, Brown, and other victim families through.

Namely, that they'll suffer some horrible tragedy in their lives, and have to hear every day how their closest loved ones never existed, were willing participants in some evil plot, were butchered by some non-existent shadowy Dr. Evil-like organization, or had to be bumped off by the government for some poorly-explained reason.

Think back to a time when you lost a loved one. Could you imagine some random passerby in a black t-shirt telling you something like this? How would you have reacted? How would you have reacted when they said "hey, we just want the truth, we want to know how your mother REALLY died, because only sheeple believe that apartment fire bullshit! Here, let me show some articles from Prison Planet..."

I've never struck another person in my life. But anyone who said something like this to me would probably be the first.

Then again, this may be the wrong line of thinking. In situations like this, the 9-11 conspiracy believers have shown such a complete lack of basic decency that I question whether the death of a loved one would even move them. Hell, the sicker ones would probably start trying to fit it into the conspiracy before rigor mortis set into the corpse.

The need to believe in conspiracies, to the extent of disparaging the dead on the day of their death, and to their own families, is a mental sickness that is just beyond my comprehension.

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:39, Blogger shawn said...

You can actually see the cut-n-paste/crop mark under his nose where his head was pasted onto his body

Actually, you're wrong. I've heard the claim before, it holds no water.

Those aren't beam weapons in what the conspiracy requires. They want things like what the Death Star had. None of those match that description.

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:40, Blogger ScottSl said...

Wrong tapes Swing Dangler

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:41, Anonymous Anonymous said...

SD, Thx for debunking the Beam theory for us by supllying us with those links dude.

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:44, Blogger Jujigatami said...

The PLO and Arafat if responsible would have had no problem and no controversy taking credit for the attacks.

That right there shows your almost complete ignorance of the subject at hand.

Arafat in the post Oslo years, after he had mastered the art of PR, formed what a lot of terror analysts called the triangle of deniability. Its rather simple in that there were always at least 3 groups committing terror (Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Martyrs Brigade (later called Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade), etc. They all work together, all recruit together, all were under the authority of Arafat but whenever one claimed responsibility for an attack, Arafat would immediately disavow it, sometimes even condeming it in english (yet curiously never in arabic), then the other 2 groups would call for a cease fire.

It happened over and over and over.

Arafat would never take any responsibility for any attacks post Oslo, even though there were hundreds, and he was directly responsible for them all.

So in other words, your analogy is BS.

as for the "Why wouldn't he be shouting at the roof" BS, simple, his singing it to the rooftops would take away any of the deniability that arab countries have, and use. He knows this. He knows that if he were to taunt the US with what he had done, decent arabs in the middle east would turn against him and his followers. As it is now, they are ambivalent. They can deny to themselves his guilt using much of the mental subtrefuge that you are using. OBL knows that everyone knows he did it, but he is going to play the victim.

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:44, Blogger ScottSl said...

This link has some of the info on it.
http://www.911myths.com/html/the_19_martyrs_video.htm

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:48, Blogger pomeroo said...

The reason why conspiracy liars should be regarded as liars is that they tell lies. Pretty neat, huh?
The problem with the deranged Ms. Wood's Particle Beam theory is that TWO PLANES WERE OBSERVED BY THOUSANDS OF EYEWITNESSES AND MILLIONS OF VIEWERS TO CRASH INTO THE WTC!!

Disingenuous lying morons.

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:55, Blogger pomeroo said...

The liars pretend that they have"questions." Asked what those questions might be, they reply that they have questions. Asked to frame those questions as coherent sentences, they reply that they have questions.

I posted quotes from several demolition experts refuting the liars' central fantasy, the use of explosives in the WTC.
The liars were silent.

I asked for a specific question that I could pass along to Dr. Frank Greening. Somewhat surprisingly, bg offered one. Greening's response was met with deafening silence.

What parts of the mainstream account, hammered out by hundreds, if not thousands, of researchers spanning a wide range of disciplines and industries, have been refuted or even called into doubt by the liars?

Now, there's a question!

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:57, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cool. Looks like you guys got a new pet conspiracy theorist. I like the "OS" thing, too, that's cute.

Personally I have never endorsed the beam weapons 'theory' although the technology is certainly there.
I have never endoresed the no-plane theory. I have never endorsed the lone missile Pentagon theory. Yet you want to throw me into that bag of coal.


That's nice. You can be a conspiracy theorist without actually having a conspiracy theory. Is there a conspiracy theory out there that isn't absurd and baseless that you'll own up to believing? Is there a conspiracy theory out there that isn't absurd and baseless?

Shawn Beam weapons don't exist??? Man I just love proving OS'ers wrong.

Not that you think beam weapons have anything to do with 9/11.

There is no truth moment, just a lot of people that want answers and do not buy the story until properly investigated.

A proper investigation being any investigation that shows U.S. complicity in the 9/11 attacks. I'm not buying your "just asking questions" act. I might be inclined to listen to what you have to say if you weren't so transparently dishonest about your motives.


Back to the topic of the post. I've no doubt that the real truthers, like Democrat and SD here, will be the first to condemn any exploitation of Mrs. Burlingame's tragedy by their conspiracist peers. No? You'd rather point out typos, talk about beam weapons, and praise your valiant moral superiority? Can't say I'm surprised.

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:57, Blogger Stevew said...

There are currently a number of laser weapons under developement, I just read that they are working on one for the Spectre but none exist that are powerful enough to knock down a building let alone the towers

 
At 06 December, 2006 12:58, Blogger Alex said...

Heh, I love how he links to crowd-control weapons in order to "prove" that some super-duper-energy-beam could have brought down the WTC. Only in CT land would something like that make sense.

 
At 06 December, 2006 13:13, Blogger acmefoilco said...

Alex,

You know darn well that while the Alan Parsons Project developed the "Beam Weapon"; It was "Operation Bananarama" that lead to the fall of the towers!)

 
At 06 December, 2006 15:03, Blogger CHF said...

Dem,

There is no truth moment, just a lot of people that want answers and do not buy the story until properly investigated.

Here we go again.

Investigated by WHO????

 
At 07 December, 2006 00:33, Blogger Democrat said...

Investigated by WHO????

Twoofers?

 
At 07 December, 2006 00:54, Blogger Democrat said...

Tippit is described in the Warren Report here and here. Did they see the man that could fire a magic bullet?

Nothing seems like it is supposed to be.

 
At 07 December, 2006 04:51, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Democrat i don't know what you are trying to prove here, but first you said that Oswald killed Ruby, and now you come with links that says Oswald killed Tippet. Like Shawn had already pointed that out to you.

 
At 07 December, 2006 05:20, Blogger Democrat said...

Jay, I never said Oswald killed Ruby. It seems that you misinterpretated my line here. Jack Ruby shot Oswald before he, obviously, could give vital information about his position.

If this was not clear from my remark, I apologise.

 
At 07 December, 2006 05:32, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well this is what u said earlier.

He stated to have been outside of the building, watching the parade. Killed a cop; Jack Ruby you mean?

So if you are saying that you didn't mean that, ok fine by me.

 
At 07 December, 2006 05:57, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Juji I was refering to pre-Oslo. Analyogy is therefore not bullshit. And at the same time those groups you mentioned were committing acts of terror, Arafat was publically calling for Jihad, etc. etc. So technically you statement is BS.

simple, his singing it to the rooftops would take away any of the deniability that arab countries have, and use.
Now wait a minute. Now your saying Arab countries are responsible and not Al-Ciada? Or is Arab countries and Al-Ciada? Which is it? And which country?

Stevew-Spectre but none exist that are powerful enough to knock down a building let alone the towers
Of course you have no information to support such a statement. So please don't state items that you pretend to know the answer to.

Trite, I only hope that every one of these conspiracy theorists will someday have to go through what they've put the Burlingame, Lyles, Brown, and other victim families through. Yes trite and we can only hope that Karma visits you as a result of this statement.


You can actually see the cut-n-paste/crop mark under his nose where his head was pasted onto his body

Actually, you're wrong. I've heard the claim before, it holds no water.


Shawn, are you that dense? I have the magazine. I can see the crop marks. I have the various pictures of LHO. The picture you refer to is a complete fraud and total fraud, created to make LHO appear to hold the weapon that supposedly killed JFK. Your problem is that you've 'heard' such claims. Well pal, I can see such claims, and those claims are true.

 
At 07 December, 2006 06:36, Blogger Stevew said...

SD
"Stevew-Spectre but none exist that are powerful enough to knock down a building let alone the towers
Of course you have no information to support such a statement. So please don't state items that you pretend to know the answer to."

All you have to do is a little reasearch and you would know this, I am not about to spoon feed the likes of you, there is plenty of info out there if you wish to find it.

How about a detailed explaination to back up your claims and back it up with real experts and scientific evidence that is equal to what has been put fourth by the real experts? No opinions

 
At 07 December, 2006 06:37, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

trite Your entire call for karama was an appeal to emotion. So please, move on.

I'm sure the CT community is sad a woman died. Hell people die everyday. Why do you care about CT'ers and their explanation? At this point, anyone's theory is open for discussion.

 
At 07 December, 2006 06:41, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

All you have to do is a little reasearch and you would know this, I am not about to spoon feed the likes of you, there is plenty of info out there if you wish to find it.
Now you as an expert on everything is going to tell me weapons that powerful don't exist because it isn't on the 'net? Come on Mr. Expert that is a tad 'basic' don't you think?

So now your expecting me to accept as fact classified or unclassified weapon technology and its power only exists if it is on the net? Are you sure your not a CT?
One example, Stealth fighter technology. When did we first hear about? How long in development was it before the public heard about it?
Now apply that to beam weapons. After doing so, go find an expert to
destroy this example.

 
At 07 December, 2006 06:47, Blogger Stevew said...

LOL I will admit you write well, too bad it is all BS
Why don't you answer my question
You guys make the claim of some beam weapon in space. How about some facts to back it up. The 747 laser is currently the most powerful flying laser period and it could never bring down the towers. This theory is about as dumb as it gets.

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002978.html
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003003.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/news/1999/n19990811_991496.htm
http://www.weaponsblog.org/entry/boeing-747-400f-airborne-laser-aircraft/
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/747-400f-gets-airborne-laser-system
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=11457&rsbci=5&fti=0&ti=0&sc=400

You clowns never answer questions you just try and divert to avoid it.
How about a detailed explaination to back up your claims and back it up with real experts and scientific evidence that is equal to what has been put fourth by the real experts? No opinions

 
At 07 December, 2006 06:49, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Hey Alex thanks for lying again! Heh, I love how he links to crowd-control weapons in order to "prove" that some super-duper-energy-beam could have brought down the WTC. The proof was that beam weapons exist, not that they brought down the towers. That wasn't my stance at all but your failed logic tries to equate it to such. I stated earlier I don't buy the beam weapon destruction of the towers arguement.
STOP LYING! GO READ THE EARLIER POSTS. You have no leg to stand on or no businesses even entering this ring. I've proved my point, I've destroyed Shawn's beam weapon statement, and I've proved that you are a liar. Now stick to all things Canadian and you might do ok.

 
At 07 December, 2006 06:54, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Shawn for christ sakes, your pulling an Alex on me!You guys make the claim of some beam weapon in space. Again another lie from the OS side. I've NEVER made such a statement nor am I defending the Beam Weapon brought down the towers position of Judy Wood. The original discussion was the existence of beam weapons, not wether or not they brought 'em down. Come on your traveling on a road both of us are not on.

 
At 07 December, 2006 07:00, Blogger Stevew said...

Was that to me or Shawn?
You guys was a general term for toofers, if it applies to you fine, if not fine. There are toofers who made the claim. I have never said we do not have lasers, just that they are not powerfull enough to bring down the towers. If we had such a weaopn, it would be front page news

 
At 07 December, 2006 07:15, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Sorry Stevew, that was to you. If we had such a weaopn, it would be front page news
It would?? Yes, if the said weapon was in the public realm. Come on Steve, you know as well as I do that classfied weapon's development is not public knowledge.

 
At 07 December, 2006 07:35, Blogger Stevew said...

In this case I don't believe it would be true. Reagan sadi at the start that if we develope it we would share it. Most of the developement has been in the public view. I use to follow it closer than I do today. It is real simple, the 747 is as advanced as it gets and it takes all a 747 can do to lift it. A laser big enough to bring down a building the size of the towers would have to be many times larger and there is not a booster on the planet that could launch it. Have you ever watched future Weapons, great show and high lights some of the future tech. Granted there are many things we do not know, hell they developed the Black Bird at the Skunk Works behind a wall in Burbank but something this large that would be part of the ABM could not be kept a secret.

How about a detailed explaination to back up your claims and back it up with real experts and scientific evidence that is equal to what has been put fourth by the real experts? No opinions

 
At 07 December, 2006 08:27, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

something this large that would be part of the ABM could not be kept a secret.
Now come on Stevew, I don't think we can hold to that statement, either. Especially if it is classified.
And as far as beam weapons as the towers: There is no need for an outside source of energy. If you look at the videos you can see layer after layer of dust blowing out in precise sequence. If you are going to postulate an energy beam you have to ask how probable is it that a beam could pass harmlessly through many storeys to start the collapse on a particular floor, then pass harmlessly through the next five or six storeys to knock out another and so on. And how could it be so precisely aimed? How come the people trapped did not get cooked - there were some who survived. The people were fragmented to an extraordinary degree. 1000 were never identified even with DNA and 200 samples were found to come from one person. Bone particles were found on the roofs of adjacent buildings. Is there any energy beam that shatters concrete, cuts steel into handy lengths, but does not heat up the material it strikes?

Which is why I don't buy the theory at all. Could the weapon exist? Sure. Who knows where or what form it might take, if it does exist.

Thanks for being civil by the way. A nice change from the OS side.

 
At 07 December, 2006 09:32, Blogger Stevew said...

I said the beam weapon is silly and you made good points. I never said that a more powerful one could not exist. POP SCI had an article on one last year but I forget the details. The real point and we seem to be in agreement that a space based weapon could not exist. I have been in Aerospace for 43 years and have worked on many space pgms during that time and have friends that give me tidbits from time to time. I have been a space junkey since the 5th grade and the Regulus was state of the art. I am also a military plane junkey as well and have worked on some. My point is I know a lot more than the average joe.

To add to your point, can you imagine the logistics involved in a space laser with the current technology?
As far as the ABM most development has been quite public. Have you seen that Phased Array Radar they have been building up north that was built and is the size of an off shore oil platform? Every test is public, the Navy is part, on and on. Perhaps some of the technical aspect are not for public consumption but it is hard to hide an oil platform with a 100' or so Phased Array Radar antenna on top. I could go on but I think you get the point.

http://www.unidir.ch/pdf/articles/pdf-art89.pdf

How about a detailed explaination to back up your claims and back it up with real experts and scientific evidence that is equal to what has been put fourth by the real experts? No opinions

 
At 07 December, 2006 11:29, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

My point is I know a lot more than the average joe.
I don't doubt that one bit.

My brother-in-law works at Honneywell in Florida. He has programmed and designed parts for the International Space station, the communication satellite that enable South America to receive cell phone service, etc. Great picks of him standing in front of satellites and such. Excellent stories on what happens when a problem arises, like fixing a navigation component on a satellite that has already been fueled up. A bunch of Limo's and SUV's pull up to the lauch site. The security guy asks for all personal belongings. Ron asks why? The guards says in case the rocket blows up we have something to identify you with and give to your next of kin. He gets into the work area. To fix this multi-million dollar satelite, his buddy is perched on a wooden pallat, lifted up by a fork lift, trying to insert this circuit board. All this high tech wizardry and they have to use a fork lift to fix it. Comical. Anyway they averted the missed launch time. The customer treats the work crew to a big over night vacation to Brazil or some resort in Latin America. Kind of cool.

His wife, my sister-in-law, works in Honeywell's military procurements division and signs off on purchased agreement orders on parts for weapon systems and such to foreign countries. Wines and dines with dignitaries and what not. She related to me how she backed out of a trip to Saudia Arabia for meeting because of current events. (this has been perhaps 3 years ago or so) She was scheduled to stay in the complex that was hit by terrorists that killed several contractors. I don't know if you remember the story or not but it was big time news at that point.
Shared some nice stories on how Honeywell with the full blessing of the USG sells weapons components to our future enemies and classified items to Israel that actually violate US laws. Typical loopholes and the blessings of the USG.

What is your take on the HAARP system in the far North? Think it is more than just sub communications or perhaps a still classified atmospheric/ionsphere type weapon?

Haven't seen the phased array yet. I will check it out. Lifelong buddy of mine who was in the Navy shared some great stories. He was responsible for radar repair on the high seas. He said he was always shit his pants before climbing the radar tower, not because he would sway back and forth staring at the ocean, but because some operator might forget to turn the thing off and fry him up.

As far as the logicstics, it would take a lot of explaining to do as to why so many classified military satellites ...errr weather satellites are being launched to assemble the thing. No I don't buy that theory at all. Happens to be a major reason behind the ST911 rift too.

 
At 07 December, 2006 12:41, Blogger Stevew said...

I have always wanted to work at the Cape but my roots have always been in CA. and the aerospace center uce to be here. From the late 80's on I have mostly stayed in the comercial field, a lot more fun than having to deal with mil-specs and such.
I vaguely remember something about that Saudi thing but thats it.
Here is a crude model of the antenna.
http://www.colonialfleets.com/stevew/Misspiks/abmplat.jpg

I won't even get started on how our technology gets spread aroung the world, it just makes my blood boil.
I have not read much about HAARP in a while, I thought they shelved it a long time ago so I have given it little attention.
If you look at what it takes for the 747 you would need a booster larger than the Sat5 not to mention the support staff, it is not atonomus yet

 
At 07 December, 2006 12:52, Blogger Stevew said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 07 December, 2006 12:56, Blogger Stevew said...

The other link did not seem to work

http://www.colonialfleets.com/stevew/Misspiks/

clk on abmpla.jpg

 
At 07 December, 2006 13:03, Blogger Triterope said...

Trite, Your entire call for karama was an appeal to emotion.

No, it was an appeal to basic human decency. And once again, the 9-11 deniers have proven they don't have an ounce of it.

Yes Trite, and we can only hope that Karma visits you as a result of this statement.

You don't seem to understand the concept of karma.

 
At 07 December, 2006 14:45, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's an update (comments of the latest blog post here) before James or Pat decided to wipe them.

 
At 07 December, 2006 16:36, Blogger Alex said...

Hey Alex thanks for lying again! Heh, I love how he links to crowd-control weapons in order to "prove" that some super-duper-energy-beam could have brought down the WTC. The proof was that beam weapons exist, not that they brought down the towers. That wasn't my stance at all but your failed logic tries to equate it to such.

I think I'll try playing the game using your tactics for a while. Just to show you how idiotic you look to everyone else. Here goes:


Hey Swinger thanks for lying again! The proof was that beam weapons exist, not that they brought down the towers. The thing I said was that you said they COULD have brought down the towers, no that they DID. That wasn't my stance at all but your failed logic tries to equate it to such. STOP LYING! GO READ THE EARLIER POSTS. You have no leg to stand on or no businesses even entering this ring. I've proved my point, I've destroyed BG's beam weapon statement, and I've proved that you are a liar. Now stick to all things Lunatic and you might do ok.

 

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