Dr. Jones and the Nazis

No, this isn't about the fourth Indiana Jones movie, but I recently sent a list of questions from reader "Sword of Truth", which he posed in a previous post, to Steven Jones, and finally got a response. SoT, has posted the exchanges up on JREF, if you want to read the whole thing, and a continued discussion of the issue.

Here is Jones' response (Jones' part is italicized):

Dr. Jones: [OK, I added that part]

Were you aware that Rick Rajter was a Holocaust denier when you endorsed his 911myths rebuttal, specifically his analysis of jewish businesman, Larry Silverstiens finances?

NO. Indeed, what evidence do you have that Rick is a Holocaust denier? Because of this charge, I am cc'ing this to Rick to see what he has to say about it.

Were you aware at the time of your interview by Christopher Bollyn that he himself is a Holocaust denier and that the publication he worked for is a neo-nazi newspaper?

No. I will BCC Christopher also to see if he agrees with your allegations -- since you have offered no substantiation.

Were you aware when you agreed to appear at the recent "9-11 Accountability" conference, that its chief organizer at the time, Eric D. Williams, is a Holocaust denier?

No, absolutely not.

Were you aware at any time prior to your own appearance at the conference, that the reason Alex Jones and the makers of "Loose Change" withdrew from it, was due to Mr. Williams ties to neo-naziism?

No -- further, this charge of neo-naziism with respect to Eric Williams is unsubstantiated and I don't believe it is true. I had heard the allegation that Eric was a "holocaust denier" -- at the press conference as I recall-- but Eric said this was not true. Pls send Mr. Williams' email address or other contact information so we can ask him what he says about your allegations.

If the answer to any or all of the above questions is "yes", how do you, as a Latter-Day Saint, especially given the tragic early history of our own faith, reconcile your association with these people with the 11th Article of Faith and President Hinckleys recent conference addresses on racism?

All answers were No, above. Also, I am not a racist and I support Pres. Hinckley's statement -- April 2006 conference as I recall.

Do you believe that someone who feels compelled to lie about the Holocaust out of his own hatred for jews can be trusted to come up with an unbiased assessment of wether a jewish person is guilty of major felonies?

No.

Do you trust people who lie about crimes committed out of religious bigotry in europe 70 years ago to never lie about similar crimes committed in Missourri and Illinois 170 years ago?

No, but I don't know of any such people who lie about both of these topics -- do you? And can you substantiate your allegations?As I wrote in a recently-completed paper (not yet published):

. Let us be active and proactive – we can reduce our dependence on the globalized system, get out of debt and put reserves into local credit unions. We can reduce or end credit-card consumerism and build home reserves of food, cash and water. We need to look to our inner values; instead of fearing terrorists (foreign and domestic). We can build cooperation, sharing, and caring as we build the local infrastructure in our communities. We can rally around the Constitution in the United States, and the Geneva Conventions, and other standards of civility and human liberty throughout the world. I advocate only peaceful methods and a respect for all religious and ethnic groups, including Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus and all others.

I am confident that by working together and seeking the facts with determination, we will succeed in finding the truth about 9/11. If we act before the next series of restrictions on our liberties, we should be able to achieve justice and peace as well. Those are great goals. [See: http://journalof911studies.com/letters/c/what-are-the-goals-of-the-911-community-by-steven-jones.pdf]

I ask that you post my answers above IN FULL wherever the questions were posed, and that you disclose your actual name if it is not Hinman. James, you may also post my answers if you would.

Please inform me as soon as my answers have been posted, and where they are posted.

Thank you,

Steven J

Now out of all the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, Steven Jones is probably the most likeable one, he seems like the nice quiet elderly gentleman living next door tending his flowers, so I take his answers at face value. I don't believe he is a racist, but at the same time he seems pretty clueless regarding just about everything, and not aware of what is going on around him. In another e-mail regarding my original questions, Jones stated that he wasn't even famliar with Judy Wood having criticized the standards of his Journal, despite the fact this was mentioned in a Morgan Reynold's attacking Jones.

We have covered the Christopher Bollyn and AFP thing so many times, that I am not going to rehash it. Obviously Jones has never bothered to research his sources, and I invite him to do a search of this site on those topics. Eric Williams denying that he is a "Holocaust denier" is no surprise. Nobody indentifies themselves using that term. They always state that they just have "questions". As I have discussed before, Holocaust denial is not about serious academic research into the history of the Second World War, it is about biased anti-Semitic research, which turns a couple of rumors started by liars and wackoes, and tries to minimize the Holocaust, from an intentional plan to exterminate an ethic group, down to just another unfortunate event in war. Here is another question for Dr. Jones. In his "book",
"The Puzzle of Auschwitz" Eric Williams refers to the Auschwitz concentration camp as "an open and caring place". If Holocaust denier is not the proper term, than what term would you suggest for people who expouse such views?

Bollyn and Rajter responded almost immediately when Jones e-mailed them, but they didn't really help their case. You can find the entire texts of their responses at the aforementioned JREF link. Both of them immediately went into typical Holocaust denier mode, spinning the subject by going on about other horrific events that occured during WWII. Bollyn went off about the firebombing of Dresden:

I am not an expert on the history of World War II, but I have visited several important sites of the war. For example I spent one month in Dresden in February-March 2004, where I lived at a small hotel on the grounds of Slaughterhouse 5. Dresden is known for being the city that was incinerated on February 13-14, 1945. I have met with several eyewitnesses to this holocaust in which an estimated 600,000 people perished in a fireball that melted the streets and boiled the water in the river Elbe. The Anglo-American fire-bombing of Dresden was truly a holocaust - a human sacrifice in fire of immense proportions.

Nick Terry, in the JREF comments, points out that this number of 600,000 is exaggerated well beyond the normal Holocaust denier claims. The actual death toll is more around 35,000.

Bollyn does not exaggerate the death toll of the camps though. On the other hand:

Having visited several of these former camps at Auschwitz, Dachau, and Buchenwald, all I can say is that I have not seen any evidence of these large ovens in which Jewish prisoners are said to have been burned. I did visit the crematoria at all three camps and saw that they comprised 6 single-body cremation ovens. It has been many years since I visited Dachau so my recollection of the crematoria there is not as clear as the other two camps.

Having visited Dachau just a few years ago, I must point out that Dachu was just a standard work camp, not an extermination camp like Auschwitz. Even so a horrific number of people died there.

Rick Rajter, who quite angrily attacks me, even though I didn't say anything about him, I made it quite clear it was someone else's question, writes:

Regarding the "holocaust denier" charge. Just like 9/11, most of the official holocaust lore is propaganda. That doesn't mean all of it was a lie, certainly. Just as Bollyn so eloquently stated. There were camps and people did die, and I'm sure the conditions were not easy... just like the Russian Gulags where millions of people died. But the whole gas chamber business and 6 million numbers have also been refuted by scientists (for example, Leuchter and Rudolph) and other expert witnesses. So since they can't prove it, why should I take their word for it? After all, science trumps emotion. But I guess I should be slandered as a "9/11 Denier" too. And no. Just because I hold these conclusions does not mean I "hate jews" and all the crap. That's just emotional ad hominem intended to distract from the debate and onto such things as "oh how horrible could this person be"

Of course one of the first signs that you are a Holocaust denier is to cite the research of "scientists" like Leuchter, who was a complete fraud who is a favorite reference of those like Willis Carto's Institute for Historical Review. I assume the "Rudolph" he is referring to is in fact Germar Rudolf, who as been convicted in Germany for... you guessed it... Holocaust denial.

I am curious as to Whether Dr. Jones will actually look into any of this, and to hear his response.