Wednesday, April 21, 2010

The Continuing Idiocy of Kevin Barrett

Looks like he's digging in about his Holocaust Denial; he's having a prominent Holocaust Denier on his show this Saturday, and he's published an open letter to Andrea (sic) Merkel on his blog admitting his own "skepticism" that six million Jews died in the concentration camps.

But seriously, Ms. Merkel, you may ask why I side with Hilberg's estimate of 5.1 [million] Holocaust deaths rather than the well-known figure of six million. My answer is that Thomas Dalton, in his book Debating the Holocaust, presents evidence that the figure of six million European Jewish victims threatened with destruction repeatedly occurs long before anyone could possibly have known the real figure. For example, the February 23rd, 1938 New York Times describes six million European Jews as "slowly dying of starvation, all hope gone." Yet at that time the Holocaust, much less its precise body count, was still several years away. A few decades earlier, the May 7, 1920 New York Times cited "Jewish war sufferers in Central and Eastern Europe, where six millions face horrifying conditions of famine, disease and death..."


Barrett goes on to mention the Auschwitz Gambit, which has been debunked for years. Oddly after all this nuttiness, Barrett arrives at a number for the Holocaust:

After reading three books on the issue--Lipstadt's Denying the Holocaust, Shermer's Denying History, and Dalton's Debating the Holocaust--I am now prepared to state that I find pre-eminent Holocaust scholar Raul Hilberg's estimate of 5.1 million Jewish Holocaust victims a more reasonable estimate.


Oddly, because that's not an unreasonable number. Nobody, despite the claims of Holocaust Deniers, says that six million is set in stone. Indeed, in the famed lawsuit between David Irving and Deborah Lipstadt, the definition of the Holocaust was:

Evans argued that the term is generally understood to denote "the attempt by Nazi Germany, led by Hitler, to exterminate the Jewish population in Europe, which attempt succeeded to the extent of murdering between 5 and 6 million Jews in a variety of ways, including mass gassings in camps built for the purpose".

(Bolding added for emphasis).

I'm not sure where Barrett is going with his claims that the NY Times published stories about 6 million Jews dying much earlier than that figure could have been known or even contemplated; I suspect his argument amounts to "they kept claiming 6 million Jews perished after WWI and eventually the world accepted it about WWII." It's certainly a stupid argument, kind of like arguing that since Wonder Woman crashed her plane into the World Trade Center in a mid-1980s comic book, nobody could later have crashed a plane into the Twin Towers.


Incidentally, while we're on the subject of Holocaust Denying, 9-11 kooks, Bishop Williamson was fined 10,000 euros for his Holocaust Denial.

Hat Tip: JREF Forum Member Nick Terry. Good find!

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32 Comments:

At 21 April, 2010 16:57, Blogger GuitarBill said...

So, how will the "sincere" troofers™ respond to Kevin Barrett's latest Holocaust Denial diatribe?

[GuitarBill activates troofer™ simulation mode]

"...Kevin Barrett is a US government mole, whose goal is to discredit The 9/11 troof movement™. After all, we're just asking questions.

[deactivate troofer™ simulation mode]

%^)

 
At 21 April, 2010 19:28, Blogger angrysoba said...

Whether or not this technically counts as Holocaust Denial it does seem to be very typical petulant behaviour by a self-pitying malcontent. He reminds me of a spoilt child who tells his parents he's gonna run away from home and then die of starvation and then his parents will be REALLY SORRY!!!1!

I think this bit is the worst, where he suggests that fining Holocaust deniers is some kind of extortion racket for Israel:

Since Bishop Williamson was fined 10,000 euros for underestimating the six-million-Holocaust by 5.75 million people, that means that underestimating the six-million-Holocaust by roughly one million, as Hilberg and I do, should be penalized by a fine of $1,739.13 Euros. Please let me know where I should go to turn myself in -- the nearest German consulate is in Chicago -- and whether you would like that in the form of cash, check, or credit card. Or should I just send it straight to Israel and bypass the middleman? (Hilberg, fortunately for him, passed away a couple of years ago, and will thus never have to feel the fiscal jackboot of German justice.)


And then he whines on and on in the typical Truther adolescent fashion and obscenely equates modern day liberal Germany (with its laudable contirition for the Holocaust) to the Holocaust perpetrators with that "jackboot" jibe.

Then he projects:

Isn't this a case of racist double-standards, in which the "inferior races" (Native Americans and Africans) are neglected, while superior "white" Jewish suffering is lionized?

Nobody is saying Africans or Native Americans are inferior except Barrett. But Barrett has spent years apparently obsessively reading about the Holocaust in order to make wadical postures that are of no consequence as if he has somehow undermined the seriousness of the crime. "Ha ha in your face suckers! Only 5.1 million died!!!!1!"

If this guy really cared about making known the suffering in other genocides then he would be researching into those and perhaps trying to do something useful to extend human knowledge.

This is one of the things I find most irritating about Norman Finkelstein who complains about a "Holocaust Industry" and decides to combat it by... well... writing another book on the Holocaust in which he complains that there are not enough books on the Belgian genocide in the Congo. So WRITE A FUCKING BOOK ABOUT THE CONGO THEN, YOU DICKHEAD!!!!1!

No, far better to sulk and think up extremely tiresome arguments for undermining well-attested historical facts.

(For the record I don't think Holocaust denial should be criminalized but Holocaust deniers have absolutely no argument for not being vilified or ostracized from university history departments any more than flat-Earth physicists should be free from ridicule.)

 
At 21 April, 2010 20:58, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think you understand much about "simulation modes" at all, Billy Boy.

 
At 21 April, 2010 21:19, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wonder, BTW, how many critics of Israel are also Holocaust Deniers, and if therefore, any criticism of Israel is automatically "moot".

Because that is the point, isn't it? Hoping to gag 9/11 truth by associating it with Holocaust denial, as often and as desperately as possible. Focus on the "fringe of the so-called fringe". Oh well I shouldn't act surprised, that is the modus operandi of this pathetic tabloid of 9/11 lies and cowardly anti-activist cyberbullying.

There is preciously little in the way of informational 9/11 topics to come by in this gossipy gaggle called "SLC", as Pat Curley grows increasingly bitter and froward, living in his filthy ramshackle shanty, slowly growing a spider web from the furrows in his forehead to his antique and baroque 20" computer monitor. Cheers Pat, here's to your life, and the hapless rut you got yourself into.

 
At 21 April, 2010 23:27, Blogger GuitarBill said...

"...I don't think you understand much about 'simulation modes' at all, Billy Boy."

Yeah, about as much as you know about intellectual honesty.

Yeah, I meant emulation mode, but who gives a fuck.

Or are you pissed because I stole your idiotic "government mole" line?

Do have anything relevant to add to the conversation, quote miner?

 
At 21 April, 2010 23:33, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So... spankyfobia, Finkelstein isn't allowed to broach subjects he feels are being overshadowed by the Holocaust industry, unless he goes over these topics in a separate book for each? How is he supposed to do a comparison of coverage of such topics if you are going to hurl these cheap shots at him? How is he supposed to write a book about the exploitation of the Holocaust for political purposes without citing examples of topics that are being snowed under by the Holocaust?

And...why do you have the gall to croak about "flat-earthers", while it is you and your utterly embarrassing cult of pseudoskeptics, spin doctors, hobbyist liars and charlatans who pervert science for political ends? *You* belong in the same category of all those gullible crackpot freaks you yourself claim to take aim at. You're pathetic. You're an atrocious, spineless hypocrite and a gutless sycophant.

Just look at the Billshitter™: his degrees obviously aren't worth the paper they were printed on. What use is his education to the US? To endanger people through ignorance? I wouldn't want that pretengineer anywhere near some fragile and/or critical system. He's worse than a liar, he's a liability.

At least hitting some false notes in the park for a dollar isn't hurting anybody except those with good taste in music.

 
At 21 April, 2010 23:35, Blogger angrysoba said...

Hoping to gag 9/11 truth by associating it with Holocaust denial, as often and as desperately as possible.

I think it is fair to say that methodologically, 9/11 Truth and Holocaust Denial are very similar. They both tend to involve the most dishonest use of sources, quote-mining from experts to give their small details more credence (Hilberg is often abused this way) while ignoring the main body of the same experts' work. They often mistakenly or deliberately confuse the exception for the rule with their "evidence" and think that anomalies tell the story better than consistently converging lines of genuine evidence.

I don't think they are morally the same, though.

But, it's disingenous for any Truther to whine about the obvious parallels especially given the large number numbers of Truthers who also happen to be Holocaust deniers.

All those commenters on Kevin Barrett's blog seem to have gone into Pavlovian slobbering mode after that post including some of them who are saying the Jews got what they deserved (while also illogically denying the Holocaust actually happened!)

 
At 21 April, 2010 23:38, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Glenn the Holocaust denier whines, "...Because that is the point, isn't it? Hoping to gag 9/11 truth by associating it with Holocaust denial, as often and as desperately as possible. Focus on the "fringe of the so-called fringe". Oh well I shouldn't act surprised, that is the modus operandi of this pathetic tabloid of 9/11 lies and cowardly anti-activist cyberbullying."

There you go again, apologizing for Holocaust deniers.

And when Kevin Barrett was exposed as a Holocaust denier, what did the 9/11 troof movement do, Glenn? Shun him? Ignore him?

No, they made him co-founder and leader of Scholars for 9/11 Troof" (founder, Uncle Fetzer)

Who do you think you're fooling, Glenn (or was that Herr Streicher?)

 
At 21 April, 2010 23:46, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Glenn Maxey, quote miner and suppressed homosexual for 9/11 troof™ whines, "...Just look at the Billshitter™: his degrees obviously aren't worth the paper they were printed on."

I'll bet that ad hominem carries a lot of weight here, Glenn.

So now that your credibility can be measured in negative engineering units, Glenn, why don't you take a moment and give us a lecture on your brand™ of "intellectual honesty". Okay Mr. Quote Miner for 9/11 troof™?

 
At 22 April, 2010 00:07, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Honest truthers have been dissing Barrett for years. He got himself banned at 911blogger for his dumbassholery. Activists at TruthAction.org declared Barrett "fired" about the same time.

By self-publication and some few alliances with folks like Sander Hicks and Carol Brouillet and Jesse Ventura and NoLies Radio he manages to make himself look like somebody but most people in the truth movement consider him an embarrassment.

 
At 22 April, 2010 01:26, Blogger GuitarBill said...

"...Honest truthers."?!?!?!?!?!?

Honest troofers™? Are you kidding me?

That's an oxymoron, Glenn.

 
At 22 April, 2010 02:09, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Honest truthers.

Are you claiming that Lorie Van Auken, Patty Casazza, Mindy Kleinberg, and Donna Marsh O'Connor are dishonest?

Fuck you, and the horse you suck.

 
At 22 April, 2010 02:24, Blogger Pat said...

And yet you complain when I criticize Barrett. Can you point me to the part where I criticize the 9-11 Troof Movement in general for Barrett's sins? Surely there's some part of the post where I have blamed the many for the sins of one idiot (two, counting Williamson)? No?

 
At 22 April, 2010 02:26, Anonymous Sword of Truth said...

If Lorie Van Auken, Patty Casazza, Mindy Kleinberg, and Donna Marsh O'Connor claim that 9/11 was an inside job, then no... they are not honest people.




And go @#$% yourself, you treasonous jew-hating anti-american scumbag.

 
At 22 April, 2010 05:00, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

This is not the first time Chancellor Merkel has received mail like this from a complete nut-job:

http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editorials/2006%20Opinion%20Editorials/September/5%20o/Full%20Text%20of%20President%20Mahmoud%20Ahmadinejad's%20Letter%20to%20German%20Chancellor%20Angela%20Merkel.htm

 
At 22 April, 2010 05:30, Blogger angrysoba said...

And...why do you have the gall to croak about "flat-earthers", while it is you and your utterly embarrassing cult of pseudoskeptics, spin doctors, hobbyist liars and charlatans who pervert science for political ends? *You* belong in the same category of all those gullible crackpot freaks you yourself claim to take aim at. You're pathetic. You're an atrocious, spineless hypocrite and a gutless sycophant.

The mating call of the looooooser!

Wonder if it'll attract any other Troofers.

 
At 22 April, 2010 05:34, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

" Anonymous said...
Honest truthers.

Are you claiming that Lorie Van Auken, Patty Casazza, Mindy Kleinberg, and Donna Marsh O'Connor are dishonest?"

Are they twoooofers™?

Then yeah, either they are liars or full blown ravening conspiracy loons.

Like you.

 
At 22 April, 2010 05:36, Blogger angrysoba said...

Honest truthers have been dissing Barrett for years.

Of course, the implication that there are dishonest Truthers comes as no surprise to any here but does make a mockery of the name from a self-proclaimed Truther.

He got himself banned at 911blogger for his dumbassholery.

I hear the place has really emptied out of late. But that's not surprising. It is in the nature of wacky cults such as 9/11 Truth to appeal to people who are simply insane. But everyone turns up with their own brand of crazy which eventually rubs everyone else up the wrong way leading to mass purges and excommunications. It's a bit like Troskyism for social shut-ins.

 
At 22 April, 2010 08:07, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, this blog is really piquing interest. Is it even mentioned in Alexia? Tell me again how Alexia compares 911blogger.com and Infowars.com to you and Pat's schoolboy disinformation howler "blogs"?

These exodus fantasies reoccur every few months or so, but they only reflect desperation and straw grasping on the part of the inane state worshiping 'debunker' cult.

Like the meme that the truth movement "peaked" in 2006. Wishful thinking, my fascist apologist friends, wishful thinking.

 
At 22 April, 2010 09:54, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Excuse me. Alexa.

Site Information for screwloosechange.blogspot.com

* Alexa Traffic Rank: 1,128,685
* United States Flag Traffic Rank in US: 316,834
* Sites Linking In: 356

Site Information for 911blogger.com

* Alexa Traffic Rank: 88,040
* United States Flag Traffic Rank in US: 41,086
* Sites Linking In: 1,061

Site Information for randi.org

* Alexa Traffic Rank: 27,654
* United States Flag Traffic Rank in US: 10,749
* Sites Linking In: 2,366

Site Information for infowars.com

* Alexa Traffic Rank: 2,924
* United States Flag Traffic Rank in US: 846
* Sites Linking In: 5,568


A high number in the traffic rank means you are a fucking loser. Which is why SLC is beyond one million.

 
At 22 April, 2010 11:22, Anonymous Sword of Truth said...

What were Infowars and 911bloggers Alexa numbers for 2009, 2008, 2007, and 2006?

 
At 22 April, 2010 12:10, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

PornBoy knows goddamned well that the Jersey Girls are honest,legitimate and sane.His insulting retort is wholly unconvincing and even he couldn't be that dim.I think it's obvious the sap is an anti-American freak.

 
At 22 April, 2010 12:41, Anonymous Rob Connolly said...

"anti-activist cyberbullying"?!?!

You've got to be fucking joking!

Posting on an internet blog is "activism"? Perhaps that explains why the Twoof movement did indeed peak in 2006.

"There is preciously little in the way of informational 9/11 topics to come by in this gossipy gaggle called "SLC", "

Well piss off home then. Nobody invited you here. You won't be missed.

And - seriously? Alexa ratings are a metric by which we measure both truth and relevance? No wonder you people are dismal failures.

 
At 22 April, 2010 12:46, Anonymous Rob Connolly said...

"PornBoy knows goddamned well that the Jersey Girls are honest,legitimate and sane."

Twoofer Tactic #21: When challenged, bring out The Jersey Widows. Ignore the thousands of other victims who are not raving loonwaffles.

Twoofer Tactic #22: Dismiss Kevin Barrett as a raving loonwaffle. Pretend every other Twoofer is sane and sensible. Yes, even Judy Wood.

 
At 22 April, 2010 14:14, Blogger angrysoba said...

Yeah, this blog is really piquing interest. Is it even mentioned in Alexia[sic]? Tell me again how Alexia[sic] compares 911blogger.com and Infowars.com to you and Pat's schoolboy disinformation howler "blogs"?

 
At 22 April, 2010 14:51, Anonymous Marc said...

5.1 million instead of 6 million dead Jews? Oh, well that makes it all okay then. Obviously there is some kind of holocaust threshold between 5.2 million and 6 million. My bad.

Oh, and with that kind of margine of error I should have a PhD in math AND a bigger refund from the IRS.

 
At 22 April, 2010 15:45, Anonymous Sword of Truth said...

PornBoy knows goddamned well that the Jersey Girls are honest,legitimate and sane.

I looked up the "jersey Girls" on wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Girls

There is no mention at all of WTC7, Larry Silversteins "pull it" quote, controlled demolition, free fall speed, thermite or any of the inside job crowds usual talking points.

By your definition, the Jersey Girls aren't even remotely honest.

But here's one thing they did say: "the nation shouldn't focus on Coulter's words but on security problems like porous borders, wasteful Homeland Security funding and intelligence agencies that don't work together. 'Our only motivation ever was to make our nation safer".

Does that sound like the words of an inside jobber? Does securing the nations borders help prevent inside jobs when the chief perpetrators are already inside the White House? Does getting the nations intelligence agencies to work together prevent inside jobs when inside jobs are the result of them already working together in secret?

The fact is, by your definition, the Jersey Girls are just as big of liars as James, Pat, Bush, Cheney, the FDNY, the jews and the 99.9% of 9/11 families who haven't breathed a single word of twoof.

Instead of attacking us for failing to respect the Jersey Girls, YOU need to explain why YOU think the Jersey Girls are a bunch of lying ass bitches.

 
At 22 April, 2010 15:49, Blogger Triterope said...

Twoofer Tactic #22: Dismiss Kevin Barrett as a raving loonwaffle. Pretend every other Twoofer is sane and sensible. Yes, even Judy Wood.

Twoofer Tactic #23: Dismiss Judy Wood as a raving loonwaffle. Pretend every other Twoofer is sane and sensible. Yes, even Kevin Barrett.

 
At 23 April, 2010 05:09, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Holcocaust denial,,,that would be those who deny the zionists are genociding the palestinians...Even Obama has said he will stand with israel no matter what...what will he do when the palestinians are wiped off the map?

 
At 23 April, 2010 06:26, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hi james or pat, if you are reading, this may interest you:

http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=129241;

'6 An upper management official at LAX has reported that he overheard members of LAX Security (including officers from the FBI and LAPD) using their walkie-talkies shortly after the attacks. In some cases, he could hear both sides of the conversation. At first, the LAX officials were told that the FAA’s Air Traffic Controllers had not notified NORAD about the hijackings. Later, however, they were told that NORAD had been notified but did not respond because it had been “ordered to stand down.” When LAX security officials asked who had issued that order, they were told that it had come “from the highest level of the White House” (“My Observation of LAX Security Events on 9/11,” by an Upper Management LAX Official [attached]; although this official wants to remain anonymous, he would willingly take a polygraph test).'

Brian

 
At 24 April, 2010 11:18, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Hey Sewer of Goofs,what the hell are you trying to say anyway.Jeepers fella,that's just plain ridiculous.

 
At 25 April, 2010 20:31, Blogger Charles said...

No event in human history has been studied more thoroughly and carefully than the Holocaust. Thousands of thesis and dissertations papers have poured over mountains of data, from physical evidence and anecdotal testimony to captured German war documents. Virtually everyone with a PhD in History will stake their career on the fact that millions of Jews were systematically exterminated by Nazi Germany. One can no more "revise" this fact than one can revise the existence of gravity. Wannsee Conference records prove that Nazis planned the extermination of Jews as, "The Final Solution." German concentration camp records prove that it was carried out.

Whenever we stand up to those who deny or minimize genocide we send a critical message to the world. As we continue to live in an age of genocide and ethnic cleansing, we must repel the broken ethics of our ancestors, or risk a dreadful repeat of past transgressions.

Holocaust deniers ply their mendacious poison everywhere, especially with young people on the Internet. Deniers seek to distort the truth in a way that promotes antagonism against the object of their hatred, or to deny the culpability of their ancestors and heroes. If we ignore them, they will twist the minds of countless young people, creating a new generation of those who deny the facts of the worst episode of genocide in history. Freedom of speech and the press is a symbol of a healthy society. Yet, since no crime in history is so heinous as the Holocaust, its memory must be accurately preserved, to protect our children and grandchildren.

Museums and mandatory public education are tools to dispel bigotry, especially racial and ethnic hatred. Books, plays, films and presentations can reinforce the veracity of past and present genocides. They help to tell the true story of the perpetrators of genocide; and they reveal the abject terror, humiliation and degradation resulting from blind prejudice. It is therefore essential that we disclose the factual brutality and horror of genocide, combating the deniers’ virulent, inaccurate historical revision. We must protect vulnerable future generations from making the same mistakes.

A world that continues to allow genocide requires ethical remediation. We must insist that religious, racial, ethnic, gender and orientation persecution is wrong; and that tolerance is our progeny's only hope. Only through such efforts can we reveal the true horror of genocide and promote the triumphant spirit of humankind.

Charles Weinblatt
Author, "Jacob's Courage"
http://jacobscourage.wordpress.com/

 

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