Wednesday, June 14, 2006

No, They Aren't Paranoid

According to their blog the Loose Change boys now announce that their promised showing of Loose Change before the British Parliament, did not happen as expected. I personally wasn't surprised, I don't believe Parliament has screened Deuce Bigalow: European Gigolo either, which is arguably about as accurate and relevant to British politics. What really amused me though, was this bit from a letter on their on their blog by one of their representatives.

Our fight to get the story of 9/11 out into the public arena will continue. Leading broadcasters from Holland, Belgium, France, Italy, Spain, Italy, Brazil, Israel, Pakistan, and The Middle East will be transmitting Loose Change around the fifth anniversay[sic], in full knowledge of the risks they are taking.

Huh? Exactly what are the "risks" they are taking? Exactly how many people have been killed for showing Loose Change, especially in the Middle East? As opposed to say, making cartoons about Mohammed, or wanting to host a beauty pageant in a country with a significant Muslim population.

I guess their best way of creating some drama is to create some artificial threat against themselves. Guys, we just think you are idiots, nobody is trying to kill you!


At 14 June, 2006 18:16, Blogger Chad said...

Guys, we just think you are idiots, nobody is trying to kill you!

::: Sulks away, dejectedly dragging the lead pipe intended for Avery's temple :::

HA! And Joan, before you get your panties in a twist, that comment was a J.O.K.E.

.... I'd rather use a baseball bat.

At 14 June, 2006 18:22, Blogger default.xbe said...

put the bat away chad, we already paid the sniper on the grassy knoll, if you kill avery now we cant get back our deposit

At 14 June, 2006 18:35, Blogger debunking911 said...

That's also the reason some of these "truthers" say the civil engineering community doesn't come to their defense. You know, since Jones is hidding in his secret classroom lair.

At 15 June, 2006 02:45, Blogger MarkyX said...

Yet geology and theology PHDs do..

This guys are seriously living in their own world. I think LTW should be charged with treason though if they show this garbage in the middle east.

The US needs some balls.

At 15 June, 2006 03:45, Blogger Alex said...

Ya know, I was planning on flying a remote controlled holographic plane into their next convention, but I can't seem to find anyone to demolish the building afterwards. I mean, I can work wth C4 no problem, but this whole thermite cutter charge thing has got me stumped. Can anyone help?

At 15 June, 2006 04:36, Blogger Chad said...

Alex, I think there's a flight school in Arizona or Florida that can point you in the right direction.

At 15 June, 2006 06:01, Blogger Jose said...

come on you guys..its not a debate if you dont have opposing comments on your blog..

Its just you guys talking about how dumb the loose change guys are.

At 15 June, 2006 06:30, Blogger Chad said...

Jose, is this the only thread you've read?

There's a bunch of people that come here and offer opposing opinions.

Pat and James aren't able to force people to come here and debate.

At 15 June, 2006 06:46, Blogger CHF said...

What drama queens these play-school revolutionaries are.

Acting like a Che Guevara rebel is fine in a police state but it looks just pathetic in a western democracy.

At 15 June, 2006 06:51, Blogger JoanBasil said...

If its true that MP Meacher backed down from showing the movie to Parliament, "Why?" Whatever your opinion of Loose Change, if you have an investigative mind, want truth, etc., that would be the question you'd ask Meacher.

Loose Change's representative says that Meacher lost his courage. Its the way of the world that evil triumphs when good men do nothing. With the British Labor Party, they have to find the courage to get rid of Blair first, as they seem to want to do.

At 15 June, 2006 07:04, Blogger undense said...

Funny that the LC seekers of truth don't dare to suppose that, quite possibly, Meacher did a bit of investigation prior to the screening and discovered that LC was full of doo-doo. That's a very valid possibility yet not one of the true believers on the LC forum dared to mention that likelyhood.

Instead they puff up their chests and exclaim that Meacher will be yet another in a long line of those who have been "clocked" and who will suffer their onerous wrath when the great exposition of the truth revolution comes.

Well that's just great. Spoken like true little fascists in training. Have they created their LC armbands yet in preparation of the great day?

At 15 June, 2006 10:22, Blogger MarkyX said...

Maybe I should wrote a novel that is a spin-off of the "The Wave", only involving Dylan and company instead of a high school experiment.

At 15 June, 2006 10:30, Blogger MarkyX said...

gr I mean write.

At 15 June, 2006 13:10, Blogger shawn said...


Because he doesn't want to make a mockery of the oldest democratic institution still in being.

Its the way of the world that evil triumphs when good men do nothing.

Like allowing Dylan and the others to spew their filth. If we at this blog stopped caring about them and let them go off we'd let evil be committed. I just won't stand for it.

At 17 June, 2006 21:39, Blogger insidejob said...

it's easy to build a big straw-man by debunking some of the errors in loose change. what is not so easy is coming to grips with all of the true claims in loose change, and especially coming to grips with all the very important facts not included in loose change.

here are a couple of good web pages that make strong arguments that both Loose Change and In Plane Site were part of a deliberate disinformation campaign - they blend false claims with true claims in order to discredit the truth movement. there is very strong evidence that 9-11 was an inside job, and a lot of serious researchers are putting it together, and Loose Change and In Plane Site both ignore most of the real evidence, while blending in a lot of false claims. mixing false claims with true claims is a common disinformation tactic. the cover of the Loose Change DVD actually sandwiches 2 false claims with 2 true claims. the websites below give strong evidence that both videos were intended to throw people off the scent of the real evidence of an inside job. the author of the first site writes "if it (Loose Change) is not naive, foolish, uninformed and ignorant, then it is the work of a calculating mole or at best a naïf who has been used by such." in other words, the authors of Loose Change may be trying to throw us off from the real evidence of an inside job, or they may have good intentions but have been fooled somewhat by, for example, the maker of “In Plane Site”:

Rumsfeld's "slip-up" about a "missile" hitting the Pentagon was an intentional part of the Flight 77 red herring.

There are disinformation websites out there: The site claims to be an objective website, saying that it only wants to show that some claims are without merit, but the site seems to me to be a deliberate disinformation website. They cherry-pick the claims that they can most easily cast doubt on, and they never mention the numerous and damning true claims – the real evidence. They don’t allow people to contact them to refute their claims (and thus test their objectivity), and their dishonesty is often obvious. For example, in “debunking” the claim that progressive collapse hasn’t happened before, the website mentions L’Ambience Plaza and the Ronan Point apartment building. They expect website visitors to not actually look into what actually happened in these 2 incidents:

L'Ambience Plaza was still in the early stages of construction and was using a special construction method – the lift-slab system – and wasn’t doing it properly. the Ronan Point incident, which happened in London in 1968, is most often cited by disinformation websites, although they don’t tell you what actually happened - this incident actually consisted of one tiny corner of balconies, and the collapsed balconies were short cantilever sections supported by the building's main structure - so there were no steel beams to prevent this little corner of balconies from collapsing progressively. To use these incidents to “debunk” the clear evidence of controlled demolition, without mentioning what actually happened, shows deliberate dishonesty.

first, my humble assessment of what happened: hijackers were involved, but they were puppets of Washington insiders, without knowing it. Pakistani intelligence agency (ISI) was the middle-man. Israeli intelligence agency (Mossad) and Israeli government knew the attacks were coming, and may have been directly involved (note - this isn't saying 'the Jews did it.' there are many many Jewish people who oppose the Israeli government, including Israelis). Flight 77 definitely hit the Pentagon, and the missile claim was a deliberate red herring to discredit the truth movement. the CIA recently released videos, but they don't show anything more than the 5 previously-released frames, and this is more bait, considering that they definitely have videos that clearly show Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon (such as from the Sheraton Hotel). they may be planning to later release the videos that actually show Flight 77 at some point and say, "look fools. here's flight 77 hitting the Pentagon." The war games on Sept.11, under the direction of Cheney and Rumsfeld, were a smokescreen and an excuse to explain why the Air Force did not respond for over an hour. Finally, without a hint of uncertainty, WTC 1, 2, and 7 were definitely brought down by controlled demolition. WTC 7 is the most damning:

(1) WTC (a) WTC 1, 2, and 7 were the first 3 steel-frame buildings in history to (allegedly) collapse due to fire. Several steel-frame skyscrapers around the world have had huge fires that burned throughout several floors for several hours, and none of these buildings collapsed. The official explanation of the collapse of WTC 1 and 2 claims that the impact of the aircrafts weakened the structures (which of course they would have to some degree), but NIST actually admits to fudging its models to make them more plausibly (to the casual researcher) explain the collapses, and it also simply lies and contradicts itself. For example, they alter the path of flight 175 so they can argue that it damaged the core columns. The report is misleading in many other ways. much more here:

The NIST Report completely ignores building 7, saying it will be considered “at a later date.” The Bush-appointed, 10-member corruption-squad known as the 9-11 Commission also ignored building 7 - most Americans don't even know about building 7, because the media have ignored it. Also, if you look at the video of the North Tower’s collapse, you can see that the top portion above the impact zone actually collapses in on itself from the bottom up, before the rest of the collapse proceeds (b) WTC 7 is the most obvious - no jet hit this building, and although some mention that the fuel tanks in the building may have contributed, FEMA said they were all intact, and, as already noted, fires do not make steel-frame buildings collapse, and random fires could not, by any stretch of the imagination, make a steel-frame building collapse so methodically into a neat little rubble pile within its own footprint, maintaining perfect radial symmetry all the way down, and falling at freefall speed. This only happens with controlled demolition. Unfortunately, most people are unaware of building 7, but the word is spreading thanks to many serious researchers. FEMA was actually able to obtain sections of the steel beams from WTC 7, and it found sulfidation in combination with rapid corrosion – a trademark of the use of thermate (the military version of thermite) cutter chargers – the presence of sulfidation and rapid corrosion can only be explained by the use of thermate. the fires in WTC 7 were only on partial sections of 2 floors, and even if the fires had engulfed the building for days, it would not have collapsed. Silverstein's slip-up about 'pulling it' also gave it away. his publicist later claimed that Silverstein meant 'pulling' the firefighters out of the building. 'pulling' is a term commonly used to refer to controlled demolition. FEMA has actually admitted that it cannot explain the collapse of building 7 (b) the official explanation ignores the thermal conductivity of steel. There would have been a massive heatsink from the steel beams, and the heat would have spread to other parts of the steel-beam mesh, rather than weakening nearby beams (b) the 'Pancake Theory', used to describe the collapse mode, has never existed as a collapse mechanism theory in structural engineering prior to 9-11. ‘Pancaking’ has happened before, but to one building (L'Ambience Plaza) that was still in the early stages of construction and was using a special construction method – the lift-slab system – and wasn’t doing it properly, and what happened wasn’t called ‘pancaking’ before 9-11. the term 'progressive collapse' has been used before, but no steel-frame building has ever collapsed due to this mechanism. the Ronan Point incident, in 1968, is most often cited by disinformation websites, although they don’t tell you what actually happened - this incident actually consisted of one tiny corner of balconies, and the collapsed balconies were short cantilever sections supported by the building's main structure - so there were no steel beams to prevent this little corner from collapsing progressively. (c)'squibs', a trademark of controlled demolition, can be seen in the videos of the collapses, and are especially obvious in WTC 7. the offical story attempts to explain them away as concrete dust and debris being pushed out of the windows by the force of the collapse, but they occur much below the level of collapse, and they occur just prior to the initiation of collapse in WTC 7. (d) Marvin Bush's contract with Stratesec(Securicom), the company that provided security for the WTC, United Airlines, and Dulles Internation Airport, was set to end on 9/10/01, the day before 9/11. (e) I've verified that there were several unexplained evacuations in the WTC towers in the weeks prior to the attacks: Ben Fountain, a financial analyst with Fireman's Fund, was coming out of the Chambers Street Station, headed for his office on the 47th floor of the south tower. "How could they let this happen? They knew this building was a target. Over the past few weeks we'd been evacuated a number of times, which is unusual. I think they had an inkling something was going on." (Source: People Magazine. Sept. 12th 2001). (f) Battalion Chief Orio J. Palmer had reached the 78th floor of the South Tower by 9:48 -- 11 minutes before the explosive collapse began -- and reported via radio "two isolated pockets of fire." (g) all three buildings maintained prefect radial symmetry as they collapsed – if the buildings had collapsed due to randomly-placed fires (which simply doesn’t happen – even full-fledged infernos don’t make steel-frame buildings collapse), they would not have fallen straight down into their own footprints (h) as Professor Steven Jones of BYU points out, flowing pools of molten steel were reported by eyewitnesses – impossible with hydrocarbon fires, but easily explained by the use of thermate cutter charges (i) the temperatures simply were not hot enough, and weren’t sustained long enough, to weaken the steel, let alone melt it, in such a short period of time, especially considering the thermal conductivity of steel (j) the explosive force of the collapses cannot be explained by mere gravity – debris was ejected out several hundred feet – huge steel beams were found 300 feet away.

Pakistani Intelligence Agency (ISI, which was founded by the CIA and still has close ties with the CIA, like Al Qaeda) was the middle-man between Washington insiders and the clueless terrorists:

October 9, courtesy of the Times of India:
"While the Pakistani Inter Services Public Relations claimed that former ISI [Pakistani intelligence] director-general Lt-Gen Mahmud Ahmad sought retirement after being superseded on Monday, the truth is more shocking. Top sources confirmed here on Tuesday that the general lost his job because of the 'evidence' India produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the World Trade Center. The U.S. authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to WTC hijacker Mohammed Atta from Pakistan by [Omar Saeed] at the instance of General Mahmud [Ahmad]."

September 9—two days before 9/11 — Karachi News made the following observation:
"ISI Chief Lt-Gen [Mahmud Ahmad's] week-long presence in Washington has triggered speculation about the agenda of his mysterious meetings at the Pentagon and National Security Council . . . What added interest to his visit is the history of such visits. Last time Ziauddin Butt, [General Ahmad's] predecessor, was here during Nawaz Sharif's government, the domestic politics turned topsy-turvy within days. That this is not the first visit by [General Ahmad] in the last three months shows the urgency of the ongoing parleys."

Israeli intelligence agency (Mossad) and government insiders knew the attacks were coming, and may have been involved in them:

Mossad agents were filming the towers before the airplanes even hit them, and began dancing and celebrating when the planes hit and when the towers collapsed :
This is a link to the article originally published by ABC News:

Source: ABC News, Saturday, June 22nd, 2002.

“A counterintelligence investigation by the FBI concluded that at least two of them were in fact Mossad operatives, according to the former American official, who said he was regularly briefed on the investigation by two separate law enforcement officials.”

Source: The Forward, March 15th, 2002

This has been reported on by several mainstream media outlets, but has simply been forgotten

Larry A. Silverstein – signed a 99-year lease on the World Trade Center 6 weeks before the attacks. A $3,500,000,000 insurance policy, specifically covering acts of terrorism, was included in the lease. This lease was an unprecedented privatization of the WTC complex. After 9/11, Silverstein demanded $7 billion, claiming that the two planes constituted two separate acts of terrorism.

Larry A. Silverstein is a close friend of Ariel Sharon, Benjamin Netanyahu, and Ehud Barak: “Shortly after the events of September 11, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon called Larry Silverstein, a Jewish real estate magnate in New York, the owner of the World Trade Center's 110-story Twin Towers and a close friend, to ask how he was. Since then they have spoken a few more times. Two former prime ministers - Benjamin Netanyahu, who this week called Silverstein a "friend," and Ehud Barak, whom Silverstein in the past offered a job as his representative in Israel - also called soon after the disaster.”

Flight 77 and the Pentagon:

JUNE 2001: The Pentagon initiates new instructions for military intervention in the case of a highjacking. these new instructions state that, for all "nonimmediate" responses (whatever that means), the Department of Defense must get permission directly from the Secretary of Defense (Rumsfeld).

Source: Joint Chiefs of Staff Document:

October 24, 2000: the Pentagon conducted the first of two training exercises called MASCAL (Mass Casualty), which simulated a Boeing 757 hitting the Pentagon.

Source: The U.S. Army Military District of Washington (MDW)

Charles Burlingame had actually retired 20 years earlier, but he still participated in the MASCAL exercise at the Pentagon, a year before the attacks:

Charles F. Burlingame III was the pilot of flight 77. He was an F-4 pilot in the Navy, and as his last Navy mission, he had helped craft Pentagon response plans in the event of a commercial airliner hitting the Pentagon.

Source: Associated Press. August 22, 2002

Barbara Honegger, who worked in the White House under Reagan, points out another coincidence. Researching press reports, she found a 9/16/01 Washington Post story about the pilot of AA flight 77 that, on the morning of 9/11, was said to have crashed into the Pentagon.

Here's Barbara Honegger:

...the main pilot of the 9-11 Pentagon plane, former Navy and then Navy Reservist pilot Charles Burlingame, had recently, in a Reserve assignment at the Pentagon, been part of a Task Force that drafted the Pentagon's emergency response plan on what to do in case a plane hit the building - which his own plane then did. It is therefore very possible - in fact extremely likely, if not certain - that this 'task force' that Flight 77 pilot "Chick" Burlingame was part of was the Cheney counterterrorism preparedness task force, and that the Pentagon plane pilot, therefore, directly knew and even worked with/for Cheney. and

Burlingame's 9-11 Pentagon plane not only hit the Pentagon that morning, it struck a Command and Control center for that morning's counterterrorism "game" exercise, killing most, if not all, of the "players". We know this because Army personnel from Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey were on special duty assignment at the Pentagon that morning for an emergency response exercise and were killed when Burlingame's plane hit. Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey also happens to be the headquarters for White House/Presidential communications, including therefore probably also for Air Force One (this is discoverable) -- and recall the warning "Air Force One is next" and the 'secret code' which was called into the White House that morning which WH press secretary Ari Fleischer revealed as a means of explaining why Pres. Bush left Florida for a military base and did not return to the White House. This "warning" was probably called into the White House, if true, by either the Ft. Monmouth White House communications headquarters and/or the Ft. Monmouth counterterrorism exercise "game" players temporarily at the Pentagon that morning.

This means the pilot of Flight 77 participated in MASCAL in October of 2000, an exercise which simulated a Boeing 757 crashing into the Pentagon.

Flight 77 hit the one and only section of the Pentagon that had been renovated to withstand just such an attack:

"Luck — if it can be called that — had it that the terrorists aimed the Boeing 757 at the only part of the Pentagon that already had been renovated in an 11-year, $1.3 billion project meant to bolster it against attack. That significantly limited the damage and loss of life by slowing the plane as it tore through the building and reducing the explosion's reach." Source: USA Today (1/01/02)

“Not all the offices were occupied that morning because of the renovation. In addition, the outer ring had been reinforced by floor-to-ceiling steel beams that ran through all five floors. Between them was a Kevlar-like mesh, similar to the material in bulletproof vests, which kept masonry from becoming shrapnel. Together, the beams and the mesh formed a citadel that kept the top floors from collapsing for about 35 minutes, time enough for some people to escape. New blast-resistant windows above the crash site didn't shatter. A new sprinkler system kept the fires from consuming the entire place.
When the plane hit wedge 1, workers were just a few days away from completing a three-year renovation of that section."

Source: USNews (12/10/01)

“The Pentagon has been undergoing some structural upgrades and retrofits, including new blastproof windows made of KevlarT that were, fortuitously, in place on the side of impact. This reinforced section of the building had a significant effect on reducing the extent of damage.”

Source: Fire Engineering Magazine (11/02)

"The 1,000,000-square-foot wedge was five days away from completion when it was struck by hijacked American Airlines Flight 77." Source: Annual Status Report to Congress (3/01/02)

FAA delayed reporting the hijackings for an hour, whereas it was bound by law to report them. The top FAA officials were appointed by Bush, and were close friends of Bush.

Norad (Pentagon) response was delayed, once FAA finally reported.

The jets that responded would have made it in time if they had flown at full speed. Why didn’t they fly at full speed? The Pentagon (Norad) must have given this order.

Several war games had been planned by Rumsfeld and Cheney on September 11th, in which most American fighter jets were off fighting imagined enemies. A particularly telling detail is that the CIA was conducting an exercise on Sept. 11th, under Cheney’s direction, that simulated a plane hitting NRO (National Reconnaissance Organization headquarters (near Dulles Airport, Virginia) - this was not a "terrorism" exercise but it did result in the evacuation of most NRO employees just as the "real" 9/11 was taking place, making it more difficult for the nation's spy satellites to be used to track the hijacked planes.

Terrorists were given visas based on incomplete forms. President Bush appointed James Ziglar commissioner of the INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service) one month before September 1lth

At 21 September, 2006 12:05, Blogger Paul Adams said...

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At 27 September, 2006 23:03, Blogger JustThink said...

I dont understand why people keep on arguing so much about the facts that every single structural engineer has already agreed on

Think about it..when everyone agrees about something and then people who are not in the field say it couldnt be that way dont we have to look for another reason of why people refuse to believe it?

All one has to do is study the psychology of people who deny the Holocaust and other cases of people making huge illogical arguments to see that facts about engineering are not whats is going to help them

There is no reason to lay out any details or counter arguments on this because anyone who can think rationally can see its like debating if water is wet.

The quesion is why do people allow their minds to be drenched in paranoia. Why did 12 black jurors let OJ Simpson go free when there was more evidence to convict than 99% of the crimes ever committed? Bias and mistrust of those in power

Why cant people accept one man could kill JFK? Refusal to believe big events can have small causes.

Why does a huge percentage of Muslims actually believe the Holocaust didnt happen? Bias and Paranoia.

Then we have the followers who are deceived by these biased and paranoid people through misinformation

The study is one in abnormal psychology. It is a warping of rational thought.

It is the inability to arrange concepts in the mind in an orderly way. Yes, a certain percentage of these people are smart..but they are not Wise. They have been affected ...tainted ..and are now broke. The majority, however, have problems fitting all the facts in their mind in order. The simple fact that not one noted democrat has even entertained this irrational theory alone disproves it. But the irrational mind will disregard all the obvious for the obscure

When people focus on how a building falls instead of visually imagining how all the people, involved in the most complicated overt plot in history, would act when confronted to kill their own people and cover it up--thats where the argument has to be made.

A person who does not have the OJ bias syndrome. The Jew hating holocaust paranoia syndrome or the earth is flat deny science syndrome or many of the others---they will be able to arrange the fatcs correctly in their minds and will quickly recognize how there is not a shread of logic present in the 911 deniers thought patterns

But again..A quick study on why some muslims and others believe the Holocaust didnt happen would go a long way to at least saving the followers from stupidity. But for the perpetrators of such stupity...Im afraid there is little hope.

The last thing is that these people are not claiming the earth is flat--which in part is harmless. These people have committed a desperately wicked act everytime they spread their accusation. They have become the very evil they preach about and are just as distorted as the terrorists in their thinking. In screaming from the rooftops that our government murdered its own people to take over the world based on the logic of a 3rd graders thought--they have become traitors who are no better than garbage


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