Truther Confab to Feature Sheehan, Rowley, Shaffer
The latest sign that all three are well-past their sell-by date:
Master of Ceremonies (MC) - Jon Gold
Cindy Sheehan, Mother & Activist
Richard Gage, AIA (Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth)
Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer (Able Danger)
Coleen Rowley, Former FBI Agent & Whistleblower, Time Magazine Person of the Year, 2002
Jack Blood, Radio Host (Deadline Live, American Freedom Radio)
Jon Gold, 9/11 Researcher & Writer
Dylan Avery, Filmmaker (Loose Change series)
Korey Rowe, Filmmaker (Loose Change series)
Daniel Sunjata, Actor (F/X, Rescue Me)
Sander Hicks, Writer & Activist
Jonathan Elinoff, Filmmaker (Core of Corruption series)
Manny Badillo, 9/11 Family Member
Bob McIlvaine, 9/11 Family Member
Kyle Hence - Filmmaker & Activist [TENTATIVE]
Note that Gold mentions himself twice in there; not too much doubt about who's behind this effort. With all the bad-mouthing of Sander Hicks over at Truth Action I'm surprsed he's not persona non grata. I believe, but I'm not certain, that this is the first large-scale confab of Troofers since the disaster in Chandler three years ago.
posted by Pat @ 11:38 AM
119 comments
119 Comments:
Pat writes, "...this is the first large-scale confab of Troofers since the disaster in Chandler three years ago."
In other words, a meeting of the mindless.
"Treason in America Conference"? Well, you've got to respect their honesty.
Hmmmm... 7 hours 1 way.
I wonder what kind of music "Payday Monsanto" plays?
I wonder what kind of music "Payday Monsanto" plays?
Take a wild guess.
Heh, I knew I should have looked to see if he has a myspace page:
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewAlbums&friendID=45290416
You don't even have to go into his albums, just look at the covers! Chemtrails, noooooo!
Coleen Rowley? Coleen Rowley? Say it ain't so.
Fuck the truthers have finally turned me into a Republican. What time is Sean Hannity on? Doesn't he also have some radio show?
Damn - it sucks to live in such an evil country - right walt?
"We want American soldiers to be swarming all over this place," says Joel Auguste, 33, a barber who is staying in a refugee camp thrown up in the national soccer stadium. "They shouldn't give one dollar of aid to my politicians because they will just steal it. Let the white man come and hand it out." Auguste once lived in the U.S. himself, selling tickets at Madison Square Garden. While living in America, he had the misfortune of being caught up in Hurricane Katrina. But he says the much criticized U.S. response to that catastrophe is practically a role model compared to the Haitian government's collapse now. "They evacuated me straight out of Alabama," he recalls of the 2005 hurricane. "Here it is every man for himself. There are escaped criminals all over the place and people are trying to rob whatever you have."
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1953379_1953494_1954393,00.html?xid=feed-yahoo-full-world-related#ixzz0d68LzkR9
"...this is the first large-scale confab of Troofers since the disaster in Chandler three years ago."
Hopefully, they won't have a Holocaust denier organizing the event this time.
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Hopefully, they won't have a Holocaust denier organizing the event this time.
He might not be organizing it, but check out the 2nd photo gallery on Payday Monsanto's Myspace page. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a Holocaust Denier.
Check out the 2nd photo gallery on Payday Monsanto's Myspace page. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a Holocaust Denier.
I'll take your word for it. I looked at that illegible mishmash and I had no clue what was a photo gallery, much less which one was second. Then it crashed my browser. Why does every MySpace page look like it was written in 1995 by someone trying to violate every web design principle he can think of?
"He might not be organizing it, but check out the 2nd photo gallery on Payday Monsanto's Myspace page."
Yeah, and I'll probably get around to alerting the Valley Forge Convention Center is having such vermin play. I'm sure they want Betsy and Jon's money, of course, but perhaps that convention center would think twice about the event if they knew that Jooooo-bashers were coming to play.
Fuck, now that I think of it, I'll probably contact the news media. If the KKK were coming, wouldn't that be a story?
Triterope, yeah, myspace sucks balls, you can't even stalk ex-girlfriends on there anymore. It's like Friendster now, but with sunburst graphics.
Walmart Troofa strikes again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnSp8yatuis
Gets banned and fined from Walmart.
"Check out the 2nd photo gallery on Payday Monsanto's Myspace page. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a Holocaust Denier."
I couldn't find the friggin' page. Could you post a direct link?
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I'm curious about Anthony Shaffer. He's a military man. Does he know he's going to be giving "evidence" for LIHOP in between nut-cases babbling on about nano-super-thermite and the New World Order?
Heh guys - trying to find a link to a youtube video - can't remember this one, but need to -
- video is slightly more professional than normal (perhaps an Alex Jones thing?)
- truther has southern accent
- truther's 911 crazy is obviously part of his religion
- truther is so dedicated that he starts to cry and you have to feel sorry for him
- some guy tries to talk him out of it
- perhaps New Orleans or Houston
Any ideas?
Walter,
that viewmorepics.myspace link above should work
For those who don't want to navigate to "Payday Monsanto's" myspace page,
it has a lovely image of the WTC smoking from the jet impacts with an Israeli flag in the background although the large blue Star of David is prominently featured in the center.
The truthers should seriously relocate to Cairo, they'd be really popular there.
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewAlbums&friendID=45290416
Patrick, you might try contacting local Jewish groups. They're pretty skilled at applying media pressure over events like this.
Triterope,
Actually, now that I think of it, the SPLC would have a good idea of who to call - in fact they might even take the ball and run with it just a little.
In my limited dealings with truthers in the real world, I've been accused of being an SPLC guy (after they figured out that I'm not a government secret agent), so, gee, I might as well make it come true!
According to the Wikipedia description of Shaffer, he is still in the reserve component. Is he claiming the US government killed its own citizens on 9/11? That would certainly be grounds for kicking him out of the military.
Conferences like these provide an opportunity for the FBI to infiltrate and sort out the harmless charlatans from the legitimate threats.
The poor folks who live in the adjacent areas will have to put up with lunatics for three days, but their suffering is not in vain.
This comment has been removed by the author.
And here I thought Jon Gold was taking over the Tonight Show instead...
It is actually illegal for a member of the military to participate in an extremist organization, especially an officer. This is a bit of borderline case, but he should be aware that he is getting beyond his normal LIHOP light stuff. Especially if he is going to use his rank as a credential.
Maybe Shaffer wants to get kicked out as a publicity stunt.
I notice a lot of people who aren't on the roster.
It sounds like Shaffer's testimony indicates that the Military's intelligence agencies knew something about the hijackers but because of legal reasons they couldn't communicate it to the FBI. That's basically why we created DHS, to bridge the gap between military and domestic intel.
He better watch his actions and who he chooses to associate with or he could risk losing his pension with a dishonorable discharge. He better watch what he says or he could risk being charged with serious crimes for disclosing classified information.
Hell, even Sibel Edmunds isn't that stupid.
He has been pretty vague thus far though. I am not really an expert on Able Danger, but best as I understand all he says is that through some unspecified means they identified Mohammed Atta in Brooklyn in 2000. Nevermind that he has no proof for this, or any supporting details, and this contradicts every other thing we know about him.
As best as I know it is not illegal to make unsupported claims about classified intelligence.
For those who don't want to navigate to "Payday Monsanto's" myspace page,
it has a lovely image of the WTC smoking from the jet impacts with an Israeli flag in the background although the large blue Star of David is prominently featured in the center.
There's far worse stuff in the gallery: an American flag in blue and white with 50 stars of david and a "made by mossad" label...a hook-nosed orthodox Jew caricature looking down on Obama, with (surprise!) arabic writing as captions....a "world without zionism" image which I can't make heads or tails of, except for it appears that the US and Israel are symbolically removed from the planet.
You know, just the normal kind of stuff you'd expect to find on the website of Hamas or the Aryan Nation.
Boy, I just can't understand why the "truth" movement attracts so many foaming-at-the-mouth Jew haters!
"A world without Zionism or America" was the name of the conference held by Ahmadinejad and that image was in the background.
http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/html/final/eng/eng_n/iran_je_e.htm
If Goebbles were still around he'd totally sue these guys for copyright infringement.
I think my favorite picture is the vaguely underage looking girl holding a sign that says "9-11 was an inside job" Very, very creepy.
"This Could Damage the Movement": A Talk with Pioneering 9/11 Researcher and Activist NICO HAUPT -
http://tinyurl.com/nicotalk2007
NY: "I just can't understand why the "truth" movement attracts so many foaming-at-the-mouth Jew haters!"
It's obvious, NY. A lot of new truthers are operating in "OMG everything I thought I knew was wrong!" mode and they don't know what to believe. They are ripe for recruiting to hate groups.
Also, since the movement as a whole has put more energy into what happened and what didn't happen than to who did it, it's pretty easy to scribble over a big terra incognita if you're not too conscientious about scholarship. That's Barrett's territory these days, and Bollyn's.
They are ripe for recruiting to hate groups.
Yup. And worse. A lot of 90s domestic terrorists, like Timothy McVeigh, got their start in "militia" and "patriot" groups. These "truth" organizations have a lot of potential to fill that role today. Sure, 99.99% of these people are never going to do squat. But for the 0.01% that will, it's a way for them to find like-minded people and network.
I'd wager any amount of money that the McVeigh of this decade will have been a 9-11 Truther at one point.
Wow,the Debunker Cult really is helmed by the military! In the person of JamesB for Boob,Anthony Shaffer is being subtly threatened to shut the fuck up! As he happens to have evidence of treason to spell out for the public,this is actually huge news.You people are truly reprehensible.Mr.Shaffer is a courageous and honest man,this is obvious.If what he is saying proves true (as you fear so much)then the American people need to know it.It will make us a better country.What's so difficult for you to understand about that?
I love how you can always tell when Spacebar Guy has returned because the number of comments on every post increases by one. It's like a dog going for its daily walk and pissing on the same tree, fire hydrant, etc.
Thinking of going there and setting up a booth selling Tin Foil Hats.
Good find, New Yorker!
Dave Kyte, here's some pointers:
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/
"the Debunker Cult"
Lather.
Rinse.
Repeat.
Good sleuthing, New Yorker.
Incidentally, I wonder if Messrs Badillo and McIlvaine know that Jon Gold thinks everyone aboard UA93 was complicit? And maybe Avery and Blood will re-enact their radio skit in which they mocked the crews and passengers in their final moments?
'Mr.Shaffer is a courageous and honest man,this is obvious.'
He also appears to have these amazing telepathic powers, given that he places Mohammed Atta in Brooklyn at a time (spring 1999) when every verifiable account has Atta training in Taliban-ruled Afghanistan.
'If what he is saying proves true (as you fear so much)then the American people need to know it.'
But if it's a load of bollocks (which is what his allegations actually are), then only sad pathetic little truther scum like yourself will get all moist over it.
Sac,your slip is showing.And Boyo,a pretty sight it aren't:what's with you saying that Atta was training in Osama's boot camp (excuse me while I get a larf outta that one ),since the last time you lurched precariously at this story you said he was actually in Germany when Able Danger had him in Brooklyn.Your cement headed analysis ain't worth commenting on except to say that it's too bad you're so fucking stupid.And obviously three sheets to the wind once too often!Here's a hint Bobo:how did the blind sheik get into the US of A when he was linked to all manner of radical Islamists and Immigration put up a big fuss? Your starter for 5!
Heh guys - trying to find a link to a youtube video - can't remember this one, but need to -
- video is slightly more professional than normal (perhaps an Alex Jones thing?)
- truther has southern accent
- truther's 911 crazy is obviously part of his religion
- truther is so dedicated that he starts to cry and you have to feel sorry for him
- some guy tries to talk him out of it
- perhaps New Orleans or Houston
That was a video I make which was excerpted from the New World Order documentary shown last year on the Independent Film Channel. It was discussed on this JREF thread.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=144872&highlight=Children%27s+Crusade
I had to remove the video from You Tube because of a copywrite claim but, oddly, the embedded video on the JREF thread still plays… for me at least. I no longer have the video on my hard drive, however.
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Everything Shaffer is saying dovetails neatly with numerous other whistleblowers and former Feds.The scumbags knew,and they knew when and with what.Your coincidence theory has been kitty litter for years now.Now,the inimitable Sad Sack Soldier informs us that Shaffer's coming forward is merely "a load of bollocks"!! Yea,and he has so much to gain by stepping up!
Patrick from Cincinnati said...
Heh guys - trying to find a link to a youtube video - can't remember this one, but need to...
The video was called The Children's Crusade. I was able to download it from the JREF thread in the Real Player format. I can send it to you if you like.
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If only all conspiracy nuts were harmless (and thoroughly entertaining) wimps like Krazee, there would be no need to worry about psychopaths blowing up federal buildings.
You guys should really listen to the Shaffer interview with Alex Jones.
He's being used to validate Jones' absurd theories. He must know that. You can tell Shaffer doesn't want to indulge in Jones' nonsense but agrees that "we need a new investigation."
Give me a break.
Shaffer isn't even LIHOP, hes "Let It Happen Accidentally, Covering Their Asses."
It's unfortunate that people like him are drowned out and commandeered by charlatans like Alex Jones.
Walter, thanks for the name! I might try to go get that later. I was in a spat with lefty British troofers - I wanted to make sure that they understood that troofy troof was a religious endeavor. But I guess we moved on.
Thanks anyway - I might look it up later.
I don't know how I am threatening him, subtlety or otherwise. I merely stated a military policy about belonging to extremist organizations. I didn't make the law, nor do I enforce it.
Shaffer appears to be a “Let it happen by incompetence” or perhaps MIHOP type. Twoofers always want to have it all ways. If you believe Shaffer, then all the “controlled demolition, missile hit the Pentagon, etc” is bullshit. He was interviewed by Fat ass Alex Jones and Alex doesn’t pose any MIHOP questions, in fact Jones sounds like a LIHOPer or LIHBIer? “We know the government blew it up” is now “We know they let it happen.”
Shaffer is hawking a book, naturally. He was a Wikipedia page, which given all the self-serving commentary, was probably written by himself.
His security clearance was revoked and he was parked a job as an “Information Officer” at Ft. Lee (similar to that hag Barbara Honegger). Although most of his claims look like bureaucratic griping, this would be fine if he wasn’t invoking his rank and position in the military, even in the reserve component. He is also clearly making a shitload of dubious claims, at a minimum the guy is full of shit.
CD, your belief that LIHOP and MIHOP are mutually exclusive is irrational. Any competent MIHOP would have involved a plausible LIHOP cover story.
Real Islamic militants, recruited by CIA asset Osama bin Laden, might have hijacked real airplanes on the day NORAD had scheduled six simultaneous war games.
CD, your belief that LIHOP and MIHOP are mutually exclusive is irrational.
False.
Any competent MIHOP would have involved a plausible LIHOP cover story.
False.
Real Islamic militants, recruited by CIA asset Osama bin Laden, might have hijacked real airplanes on the day NORAD had scheduled six simultaneous war games.
They did. Also, bin Laden was never a CIA asset. Learn to google.
Also, bin Laden was never a CIA asset. Learn to google.
Google won't help this. I bet the first ten pages to a search for "bin Laden CIA" will be conspiretard sites. What he needs is healthy skepticism and the faculty for critical thinking. A slightly less bloodthirsty hate for America and The West might help also.
Anonymous said...CD, your belief that LIHOP and MIHOP are mutually exclusive is irrational.
Sorry son, your scenario is still MIHOP. Listen to what fat ass Jones' said. "Let it happen" isn't the same as "Made it happen."
In any case, both MIHOP and LIHOP are crap and whoever believes either or both is just another twoofer moron. I only brought them up to show you dumbshits can't make up your minds on anything.
CD, I don't know fat-ass-Jones and I don't care what he says.
I don't have to make up my mind. I know we've been lied to and that further investigation is needed. Why should I make up my mind about some goofy conspiracy theory?
Google won't help this. I bet the first ten pages to a search for "bin Laden CIA" will be conspiretard sites.
I know. Fuck, if you go to youtube and look for "pyroclastic flows", you get a whole bunch of 9/11 conspiracy videos with the occasional video of a volcano erupting. Future historians are going include stuff like this in their stories about the decline of America.
I was just mocking Brian's snotty condescension.
I don't have to make up my mind. I know we've been lied to and that further investigation is needed.
So....when you say you haven't made up your mind, you mean that you've made up your mind and that nothing will change that.
Seek professional help, Petgoat.
OK, if Osama's not CIA, then how come the CIA didn't kill him when Clinton ordered it done? How come Larry Mitchell met with him in Dubai two months before 9/11? How come Tommy Franks let him walk out of Tora Bora with an entourage of 1600? How come Porter Goss said that though we have an excellent idea of where he is, we weren't going after him? How come Col. David Hunt says we let him go again in 2007? How come though Goss said sovereignty issue prevented us from going after him quietly, those same sovereignty issues did not prevent us from killing 700 Pakistani civilians while getting 14 al Qaeda?
YEAH?!? WHY WHY WHY ?!?! I'M JUST ASKING QUESTION!!!!!!!!
I know we've been lied to...
Yes, your mother lied to you when she said you'd amount to something in life, but that is your problem, not everyone else's.
OK, if Osama's not CIA, then how come the CIA didn't kill him when Clinton ordered it done?
....and you claim you don't believe "goofy conspiracy theories"? Here we get an excellent example into the mind (and I use that term loosely) of a twoofer. 1) Everything the CIA sets out to do will be successfully accomplished and if not, 2) it proves the target was really a CIA asset. So, Fidel Castro is really a CIA asset! Who knew?
OK, if Osama's not CIA, then how come the CIA didn't kill him when Clinton ordered it done? How come Larry Mitchell met with him in Dubai two months before 9/11? How come Tommy Franks let him walk out of Tora Bora with an entourage of 1600? How come Porter Goss said that though we have an excellent idea of where he is, we weren't going after him? How come Col. David Hunt says we let him go again in 2007? How come though Goss said sovereignty issue prevented us from going after him quietly, those same sovereignty issues did not prevent us from killing 700 Pakistani civilians while getting 14 al Qaeda?
He's not CIA, Petgoat. I've already told you this. You should learn to read.
Wow, CD. Textbook example of irrational ad hominem and straw man!
I never said the CIA accomplishes everything, and never said their foot-dragging proved anything. So after disposing (in your own mind) through irrational arguments item one on the list, you ignore items two through six. Heck of a job!
NY, that you expect me to believe everything I read from anonymous internet posters that I know to be liars suggests that you believe everything you read from anonymous internet posters you know to be liars. That explains your goofy opinions.
NY, that you expect me to believe everything I read from anonymous internet posters that I know to be liars suggests that you believe everything you read from anonymous internet posters you know to be liars. That explains your goofy opinions.
Nobody cares, Petgoat.
Jogging JamesB,Anthony Shaffer took an oath to defend the Constitution,not pay obeisance to whomever is in charge at the time.For you and your daffy crew to insinuate that he's part of an "extremist" or "anti-American" cabal is idiotic.And yes,you did threaten him.
" Arhoolie said...
Jogging JamesB,Anthony Shaffer took an oath to defend the Constitution,not pay obeisance to whomever is in charge at the time.For you and your daffy crew to insinuate that he's part of an "extremist" or "anti-American" cabal is idiotic.And yes,you did threaten him."
And Benedict Arnold was a war hero.
For you and your daffy crew to insinuate that [Shaffer is] part of an "extremist" or "anti-American" cabal is idiotic.
He is certainly keeping company with America-hating fanatics even if he hasn't endorsed their most outrageous claims. What claims he does make are of dubious credibility. Someone who kept company of Germans in WWII or Russians during the Cold War certainly should have their loyalty questioned.
'what's with you saying that Atta was training in Osama's boot camp (excuse me while I get a larf outta that one ),since the last time you lurched precariously at this story you said he was actually in Germany when Able Danger had him in Brooklyn.'
During the course of 1999 he was completing his degree in Hamburg, then he was in Afghanistan. Read Jason Burke's book on Al Qaeda, or ... just for a change .. just learn to read.
'Everything Shaffer is saying dovetails neatly with numerous other whistleblowers and former Feds.'
Name names, Walt.
'Real Islamic militants, recruited by CIA asset Osama bin Laden, might have hijacked real airplanes on the day NORAD had scheduled six simultaneous war games.'
Actually, NORAD only had two scheduled, and only one of those dealt with NEADS. And seeing as it was a CPEX (Command Post Exercise) done entirely with a computer simulation, with no actual assets (jets) being deployed, it actually had no effect on NORAD's response time.
And you do need to answer another question here. NORAD is a binational command, so if it is LIHOP or MIHOP, were the Canadians in on it too?
'OK, if Osama's not CIA, then how come the CIA didn't kill him when Clinton ordered it done?'
Two phrases, eunuch. TRODPINT and Executive Order 12333. Find out what they are, and what they refer to.
'How come Larry Mitchell met with him in Dubai two months before 9/11?'
Another truther myth. The director of the hospital where OBL supposedly had his dialysis denied the man was there.
'How come Tommy Franks let him walk out of Tora Bora with an entourage of 1600?'
Presumably they all marching down the same goat track, and all waving their 'We are al Al Qaeda Now' banners, and smiling for the cameras in the process. I've dealt with your BS about Tora Bora before, Brian.
'How come Porter Goss said that though we have an excellent idea of where he is, we weren't going after him? How come Col. David Hunt says we let him go again in 2007?'
The FATA is not as easy to get around as your mum's basement, Brian.
Chavez himself has also claimed US marines have killed countless looters in Haiti. Proof, or even evidence? Nope, none needed. He "just knows"!
Saa, you can't expect me to take the unsourced (no-balls) assertions of an anonymous internet poster seriously -- especially in a forum that tolerates blatant liars like NY.
You ask, were the Canadians in on it too? There's no reason they should be, so why would you think so?
You say the director of the American Hospital in Dubai denied that Osama was there. Well big wup. Of course he denied Osama was there. Did he say so under oath? Le Figaro says Osama was there.
The Christian Science Monitor tells the story of 1600 al Qaeda at Tora Bora and how they all walked out because only one of the two roads out was bombed.
If the FATA are not easy to get around in, that suggests we should have assigned more than 36 soldiers to the job of keeping Osama in Tora Bora, eh?
'Saa, you can't expect me to take the unsourced (no-balls) assertions of an anonymous internet poster seriously -- especially in a forum that tolerates blatant liars like NY.'
Coming from you, Brian, that's fucking rich. Self-awareness is not your strong point, is it?
'You ask, were the Canadians in on it too? There's no reason they should be, so why would you think so?'
Great. It's just that if NORAD were ordered to stand down - as you keep claiming - then surely the Deputy CINC (who's a CF 2 star) and all the other Canadians in the command might have noticed that their yank brothers were at the very least guilty of dereliction of duty on the morning of 9/11. But none of them did. What should that tell you?
'You say the director of the American Hospital in Dubai denied that Osama was there. Well big wup. Of course he denied Osama was there. Did he say so under oath? Le Figaro says Osama was there.'
This story is a red herring, Brian. Why can't you admit it?
http://www.911myths.com/html/bin_ladin_met_the_cia.html
'The Christian Science Monitor tells the story of 1600 al Qaeda at Tora Bora and how they all walked out because only one of the two roads out was bombed.'
This is the Af-Pak frontier, moron, not the New Jersey turnpike. The Soviets and Afghan army couldn't stop cross-border movement during the 1980s, so what hope an ad hoc force of Pashtun mercenaries hurriedly engaged by the CIA?
'If the FATA are not easy to get around in, that suggests we should have assigned more than 36 soldiers to the job of keeping Osama in Tora Bora, eh?'
This is yet another sign of your collosal ignorance, Brian. You assume that moving armies around is as easy as it is in a boardgame like 'Risk'. If you want to get an idea of what CENTCOM's planners were dealing with in November-December 2001, ask yourself these questions?:
(1) How many transport aircraft will it take to ship a divisional-sized formation (82nd AD, 1 MEF) from its home base to the nearest sizeable airbase, and how long will it take?
(2) How many tonnes of ammunition (for all their weapons), food, water and fuel are required to sustain these troops in combat (as a side issue, we'll need to give them winter warfare kit as well)?
(3) What CASEVAC arrangements need to be made to evacuate battle casualties from a high altitude combat zone, in the middle of a winter?
(4) Do we have enough helicopters (Black Hawks, Chinooks etc) for troop lift, and where do we base them? Where are our landing sites?
(5) Do we have permission from the Pakistani government to operate on their side of the border (Answer: No).
(6) Do airfields in Afghanistan have the facilities (runways etc) to handle transport aircraft and other air assets (Answer: Only Bagram, near Kabul, does at this time).
(7) How long will it take to get troops - either by land or by air - from our forward bases in Afghanistan (once we've establishmed them) to blocking positions near the Tora Bora mountains?
You see how difficult it is?
Incidentally, what does the fact that CENTCOM had no contingency war plan for Afghanistan prior to 9/11 tell you? Does that not undermine LIHOP/MIHOP just a tinsy-winsy little bit?
Saa, you can't expect me to take the unsourced (no-balls) assertions of an anonymous internet poster seriously -- especially in a forum that tolerates blatant liars like NY.
I don't lie, Petgoat. You're the one babbling about "essentially in free-fall", which is a total lie.
"(1) How many transport aircraft will it take to ship a divisional-sized formation (82nd AD, 1 MEF) from its home base to the nearest sizeable airbase, and how long will it take?"
s&a, if IIRC, my son, Matt the Marine's unit, 3/8/2, was in training and in the actual deployment exercise for approx. 9 Months before they debarked as 22nd MEU to the Middle East.
Which is only a battalion sized unit.
So, yeah, poor brian has noooooo fucking clue what he's talking about.
And NY, good job in proving poor brian's one man moronic convergance with every fisking you do of his insanity.
Fun times, fun times.
Harry Samit,Sibel Edmonds,David Schippers,Scott Philpott,Minnesota office,Phoenix office.There's a starter kit for the loony lager lout in the UK.
"If the FATA are not easy to get around in, that suggests we should have assigned more than 36 soldiers to the job of keeping Osama in Tora Bora, eh?"
Not this shit again!
Sibel Edmonds??????
LMMFAO!!!!!!!!!
You're a funny fuck Walt!
"Arhoolie said...
Harry Samit,Sibel Edmonds,David Schippers,Scott Philpott,Minnesota office,Phoenix office.There's a starter kit for the loony lager lout in the UK"
Can someone translate that into Sane for me?
'Can someone translate that into Sane for me?'
Same shit, different day.
's&a, if IIRC, my son, Matt the Marine's unit, 3/8/2, was in training and in the actual deployment exercise for approx. 9 Months before they debarked as 22nd MEU to the Middle East.
Which is only a battalion sized unit.
So, yeah, poor brian has noooooo fucking clue what he's talking about'.
Indeed, and that's for a planned rotation. How many dramas would a military staff have to deal with in planning for an unanticipated operation without any prior contingency planning; such as the invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11?
Soldier Sad Sack on a bender is NOT a pretty sight!!! Jesus H Crikey,is he gonna read the instructions to the soldiers emergency mess kit out loud next? Of course,not a squeak about the overwhelming evidence of FBI malfeasance or Anthony Shaffer.I mean,what gets into Sluggos like Sackscreech? It was just a bad day....for the entire US security apparatus.And a really bad year for all and sundry in the lead up to the fateful day! "...but none of 'em did".Aaargh,Jimboy!!! You really do have quite a pair,DogBoy!!
Saa, I never said there was a stand-dpwn order. That's your straw man. You can only defend your untenable opinions by denaturing the counterarguments in your mind.
The air defense was disrupted by the war games. There was no need for a strand down order.
" The Soviets and Afghan army couldn't stop cross-border movement during the 1980s, so what hope an ad hoc force of Pashtun mercenaries hurriedly engaged by the CIA?"
Another straw man argument. Of course there was no hope for an ad hoc Pushtun force who were probably paid more by al Qaeda than they were by us. We had fewer US soldiers there than there were journalists. The trail out crossed a major highway (says the CSM) which was not guarded.
Spare me your logistical posturing. There was an airport at Jalalabad 30 miles away. There was a major highway. Pray tell, what fleets of helicopters supplied the Pushtun mercenaries? Or did they run around naked in the snow and eat twigs?
NY, it's NIST "babbling" about "essentially in free fall" both in section 6.14.4 and in the FAQs. I'd invite you to join the reality-based community except that it doesn't want you.
LL, if the army wasn't ready to get bin Laden, maybe they should have accepted Taliban's offer to turn him over before they started the war. So let's see, on one thread you claim it's the best army in history, and in another you claim it's a bunch of Keystone Kops.
Methinks assholio just fell over the edge of the world.
Goodness, I'd like to get the opinion of a professional as to that insane Ranty McRant.
Drugs, maybe?
"Anonymous said...
Saa, I never said there was a stand-dpwn order. That's your straw man. You can only defend your untenable opinions by denaturing the counterarguments in your mind."
boron, seek professional help, or you're going to end up like Krazee, the Balless Wonder Klown™.
Really.
"LL, if the army wasn't ready to get bin Laden, maybe they should have accepted Taliban's offer to turn him over before they started the war."
boron, of all the fucking moronic statements you have spewed over the years you have been vomiting moronic statemets, that is the most moronic, mindles ahistoric bullshit you have ever crapped out.
WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK WE INVADED AFGHANISTAN????????????
BECAUSE THE FUCKING TALIBAN REFUSED TO TURN BIN LADEN OVER TO US
Sorry I had to shout there, folks, but that statement by boron the moron was so heniously fucktarded, I just had to.
"So let's see, on one thread you claim it's the best army in history, and in another you claim it's a bunch of Keystone Kops."
Only in your addlepated mind, boron.
You can only defend your untenable opinions by denaturing the counterarguments in your mind.
English, Brian.
Another straw man argument. Of course there was no hope for an ad hoc Pushtun force who were probably paid more by al Qaeda than they were by us. We had fewer US soldiers there than there were journalists. The trail out crossed a major highway (says the CSM) which was not guarded.
Yes, this is all true. What point are you trying to make?
Spare me your logistical posturing. There was an airport at Jalalabad 30 miles away. There was a major highway. Pray tell, what fleets of helicopters supplied the Pushtun mercenaries? Or did they run around naked in the snow and eat twigs?
Brian, you're the "truther". You're supposed to be arguing that the US could have easily captured bin Laden. You're supposed to say that the US had half a million troops in theater (it's as reality-based as SAMs at the Pentagon). C'mon, buddy, straighten up!
NY, it's NIST "babbling" about "essentially in free fall" both in section 6.14.4 and in the FAQs.
False.
LL, if the army wasn't ready to get bin Laden, maybe they should have accepted Taliban's offer to turn him over before they started the war. So let's see, on one thread you claim it's the best army in history, and in another you claim it's a bunch of Keystone Kops.
General Good's expertise on deploying military forces is about on par with his expertise on engineering and physics. Seek professional help, Brian.
LL, the claim that Taleban refused to turn over bin Laden is a lie. I know that's what Obama said recently. It's a lie. There were three separate offers.
NY, I don't need any military expertise to know that the army didn't get bin Laden.
Also they turned down two or three plans offered by Delta Force.
LL, the claim that Taleban refused to turn over bin Laden is a lie. I know that's what Obama said recently. It's a lie. There were three separate offers.
Yes, they offered to hand him over under conditions that were unacceptable to the US. Learn to google.
NY, I don't need any military expertise to know that the army didn't get bin Laden.
Correct. What point are you trying to make?
Also they turned down two or three plans offered by Delta Force.
Oh boy, is this where Brian starts talking about his special forces expertise?
Anonymous said...
LL, blah blah blah.
NY, blah blah blah.
Saa, blah blah blah.
PICK. A. NAME. BRIAN.
"Spare me your logistical posturing. There was an airport at Jalalabad 30 miles away. There was a major highway."
VS
"During the years leading up to September 11, bin Laden maintained a mountain retreat in a settlement near Tora Bora called Milawa--a three-hour drive up a narrow mud-and-stone road from Jalalabad."
http://www.tnr.com/article/the-battle-tora-bora?page=0,1
SANITY 1
B. GOOD 0
Pray tell, what fleets of helicopters supplied the Pushtun mercenaries? Or did they run around naked in the snow and eat twigs?
VS.
The expedition was delayed when a poorly packed RPG carried on a mule blew up, killing two of the Afghan guides. Finally, the group reached a mountaintop from which it could see several hundred of bin Laden’s men arrayed below. For the following 56 hours straight, the team called in airstrikes from all of the bombers available in theater.
SANITY 2
B. GOOD 0
Brian, I could do this all day but it not worth the effort.
You have no point to make with Tora Bora other than to show us all just how ignorant you are.
You have no point to make with Tora Bora other than to show us all just how ignorant you are.
He's never had any point to make on anything except to show how ignorant or mentally ill he is.
I expect him to come back with "essentially in free-fall" just to further prove the point.
This is the border that Brian Good thinks can be closed like a closet door:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/TORA_BORA_FATA_%288%29.JPG
'There was an airport at Jalalabad 30 miles away. There was a major highway.'
And presumably you personally measured the length of the runway, assessed the size of the fuel-dumps, and made the appropriate logistical calculations.
Incidentally, the 'major highway' you talk about is the Jalalabad-Kandahar-Herat-Mazar-Kabul ring road. It goes nowhere near the frontier, and as you may have gathered the Afghan road network is rather rudimentary.
'Pray tell, what fleets of helicopters supplied the Pushtun mercenaries? Or did they run around naked in the snow and eat twigs?'
Here, Brian, you inadveredly stumble on the truth. Namely, that the US military used Afghan proxies because they were judged expendable, and didn't require the same logistical support. They could also be bribed by AQ fugitives. Read and learn, boy:
http://foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Tora_Bora_Report.pdf
'LL, if the army wasn't ready to get bin Laden, maybe they should have accepted Taliban's offer to turn him over before they started the war.'
The Taliban never made this offer Brian. It is a figment of your imagination that I have tried - unsuccessfully - to dispel, because your meagre excuse for a brain happens to be on permanent send:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/11/world/main310852.shtml
'"The rejection came in a statement by Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan. Asked whether the Taliban would hand over bin Laden, Zaeef said, "No." But his translator said, "No, not without evidence."'
'The air defense was disrupted by the war games. There was no need for a strand down order'
The transition from the war game to the 'real world' took a matter of seconds. There was no 'disruption'. Yet another Brian Good lie bites the dust:
http://media.nara.gov/9-11/MFR/t-0148-911MFR-00778.pdf
http://media.nara.gov/9-11/MFR/t-0148-911MFR-00172.pdf
'116. On 9/11, NORAD was scheduled to conduct a military exercise, Vigilant Guardian, which postulated a bomber attack from the former Soviet Union. We investigated whether military preparations for the large-scale exercise compromised the military’s response to the realworld terrorist attack on 9/11. According to General Eberhart, “it took about 30 seconds” to make the adjustment to the real-world situation. Ralph Eberhart testimony, June 17, 2004. We found that the response was, if anything, expedited by the increased number of staff at the sectors and at NORAD because of the scheduled exercise. See Robert Marr interview (Jan. 23, 2004)
Footnote to Chapter 1, 9/11 Commission Report'
General Good fucks up again.
http://911myths.com/index.php/War_Games
G Shumway, there's no contradiction between Tora Bora being at the end of a dirt road and the report in the CSM that the trail from Tora Bora to Pakistan crossed a major highway.
You're only showing how illogical you are.
Saa, any idiot can google and find that the J'bad airport is 2200 meters, 7200 feet -- that's longer than the main runway at Reagan Nat'l.
I've already quoted Scheuer's statement about employing local warlords who were known to be unreliable.
Taliban offered three times to turn over Osama. If as CBS says they said "no" is was because no evidence was offered. They offered to turn Osama over if evidence of his guilt was offered. They proposed a trial under an international tribunal. And finally they offered to turn him over if only the bombing would stop.
So what if the transition from war game to real world took seconds? When did the transition take place?
Nice go, quoting General Eberhart. His account was so unbelievable the 9/11 Commission wrote their own timeline, and they considered referring NORAD's testimony to the DoJ for criminal investigation.
G Shumway, there's no contradiction between Tora Bora being at the end of a dirt road and the report in the CSM that the trail from Tora Bora to Pakistan crossed a major highway.
False.
Taliban offered three times to turn over Osama. If as CBS says they said "no" is was because no evidence was offered. They offered to turn Osama over if evidence of his guilt was offered. They proposed a trial under an international tribunal. And finally they offered to turn him over if only the bombing would stop.
Nobody cares, Brian.
Nice go, quoting General Eberhart. His account was so unbelievable the 9/11 Commission wrote their own timeline, and they considered referring NORAD's testimony to the DoJ for criminal investigation.
Please see a psychiatrist, Brian.
NY, you are a compulsive liar.
NY, you are a compulsive liar.
It would be nice if you could actually cite one example of me lying, instead of just pointlessly babbling about it.
And no, NIST did not claim the towers fell "essentially in free-fall". The fact that you continue to claim so just shows how unbelievably stupid and/or insane you are.
NY, you are a compulsive liar.
And you're an obsessive-compulsive liar, Brian Good.
NY, most of what you write is a lie, including the claim that section 6.14.4 of the NIST report does not say what it says, which is that the buildings came down "essentially in free fall".
NY, most of what you write is a lie, including the claim that section 6.14.4 of the NIST report does not say what it says, which is that the buildings came down "essentially in free fall".
So in other words, I've never lied. Good to clear that one up. Please see a psychiatrist, Brian.
NY, your statement is not even logically coherent, let alone true.
NY, your statement is not even logically coherent, let alone true.
Nobody cares what you think, Brian, especially since you can't name a single instance where I've lied.
Keep in mind that SackDinghy is still catching up with the Omar Saeed Sheikh angle on things.Give the guy some leeway for Christ's sake! By the way Sir Oswald Moldy,the Taliban offered to turn over bin Laden a few times after 9/11.The Taliban flacks had pressconferences broadcast to the world where they offered bin Laden just as soon as the USA presented proof that he was the "evil doer".How you could deny this is revealing.Again,Bozo,Amsterdam is so cheap this time of year.And with the British currency you'll be golden.
hoolie, they didn't even demand proof. They asked for evidence.
NY, you even lie about your lies.
New Yorker goes out with a whimper and talking smack the whole time! You gotta say:"Homie got balls".
hoolie, they didn't even demand proof. They asked for evidence.
NY, you even lie about your lies.
New Yorker goes out with a whimper and talking smack the whole time! You gotta say:"Homie got balls".
It's funny to watch the self-congratulating by the last two "truthers" who post here. Give yourselves a hand, guys, you've beaten us again!
And tomorrow, when the sun rises, you'll be no closer to accomplishing any of your goals than you were on 9/12/2001.
'Keep in mind that SackDinghy is still catching up with the Omar Saeed Sheikh angle on things.'
Arseholie still flogs that horse which is not only long gone, but in an advanced state of decomposition. I'm still waiting for him to explain how SIS and Mossad sprung Sheikh from his Indian jail by ordering Harkat ul-Mujahidin to hijack the Kathmandu to Delhi flight on 24th December 1999, and then directed the Taliban to hold the jet and its crew & passengers until Sheikh was released.
'By the way Sir Oswald Moldy,the Taliban offered to turn over bin Laden a few times after 9/11.The Taliban flacks had pressconferences broadcast to the world where they offered bin Laden just as soon as the USA presented proof that he was the "evil doer".'
You are either monumentally stupid, or you're lying through your teeth again, Walt. The Taliban never offered to hand bin Laden over, in the same way that you never served for three years on OIF. The lack of evidence should tell you that.
BTW, talking of Sheikh, I'm still waiting for you to verify your claim that the FBI confirmed that Gen Ahmed wired £100,000 to Mohamed Atta.
How ironic that NY,er completely underestimates the power of his best friend,the internet."We are millions and millions and we're comin' to get you...".Having his butt waxed so regularly is tough on the guy.
Sack-ak-ak-ak-ak,you really need your head examined.I mean really,mate,this is getting ridiculous.This jabberwocky kick you are on lately is pathetic.
How ironic that NY,er completely underestimates the power of his best friend,the internet."We are millions and millions and we're comin' to get you...".Having his butt waxed so regularly is tough on the guy.
Yup, there it is, the promise that some day, you'll be validated. Religious cults do this all the time. "Just wait, Jesus really will appear this time!"
It's noon, so of course spacebar guy posts his daily gibberish. Around 9pm, Brian Good should stop by.
And tomorrow, when the sun rises, you'll be no closer to accomplishing any of your goals than you were on 9/12/2001.
Actuaries will tell you that the odds of the entire national security apparatus flopping totally,all at the same time AND in the months and years leading up to 9/11 is right about at the level of Jesus riding back on his dinosaur.
Actuaries will tell you that the odds of the entire national security apparatus flopping totally,all at the same time AND in the months and years leading up to 9/11 is right about at the level of Jesus riding back on his dinosaur.
You've obviously never even met an actuary, since they'd be laughing at you halfway through that sentence.
Pat and James could tell you why that's a bullshit argument. They have made many posts about it. Try reading the site's history. In fact, try reading everything and not posting at all.
Actuaries will tell you that the odds of the entire national security apparatus flopping totally,all at the same time AND in the months and years leading up to 9/11 is right about at the level of Jesus riding back on his dinosaur.
That's also probably about the odds that the species homo sapiens would survive long enough to populate the planet with 6 billion of its kind. Even more amazing is how nowhere along the way were the genes that produced your deficient intelligence wiped out by natural selection.
'Sack-ak-ak-ak-ak,you really need your head examined.I mean really,mate,this is getting ridiculous.This jabberwocky kick you are on lately is pathetic.'
Does that mean you haven't got the link confirming the Ahmed-Atta money transfer, or that you can't explain why the US and British governments would go through the effort of getting Benazir Bhutto out of exile and back into Pakistani politics before rubbing her out?
I'm sorry, I don't speak mong, so perhaps you can tell me which part of your crazed rants you can't explain properly.
Therer goes Triteopey,with another desperate squeak! Yea,OK,Pat and James explained all that.Did they let you smoke some of their stash too? Yea,and Sackbollocks cleared up the dust sample controversy as well:it was fabricated!!!! And another Bozo cleared up the Barry Jennings mystery:"there was no explosion".And the whackjobs insisting that there was "no such thermite" made things crystal clear as well.And then there's the SLC stalwarts asserting that NIST never said anything about #7 coming down "essentially in free fall"! I mean,how ridiculous is the Debunker Cult as they fail miserably in debunking more than a few extreme speculations? Hell,these nutcases will tell us that a guy like Shaffer is part of a vast anti American conspiracy to frame the CIA and the Pentagon or that Barry was only in it for the money!
Yes,that was you,Soldier Sad Sack who said that the Taliban never offered to turn over bin Laden.I don't really know how you'll spin this one but I,for one,am looking forward to Act 3 Scene 46 of your lovely tumble onto the carpet!
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'Yes,that was you,Soldier Sad Sack who said that the Taliban never offered to turn over bin Laden.'
I'll try not to use too many long words here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/11/world/main310852.shtml
'The rejection came in a statement by Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan. Asked whether the Taliban would hand over bin Laden, Zaeef said, "No." But his translator said, "No, not without evidence."'
So the ambassador says 'no', and his terp adds the 'not without evidence' bit. What part of that don't you understand.
If I was confident in your basic reading comprehension, I'd also refer you to Daniel Benjamin and Steven Simon's 'The Age of Sacred Terror', which shows that even before 9/11 the Taliban refused to hand OBL over even when US officials handed them evidence of his complicity in terrorism (pp.273-275). So if you honestly believe that the Taliban were prepared to hand over their main source of funding (and also the leader of the thousands of foreign volunteers who provided Mullah Omar with his shock troops), then you're even more of an ignorant mong than I thought you were.
Found the evidence on the FBI verifying the Ahmed-Atta money transfer yet?
Asked whether the Taliban would hand over bin Laden, Zaeef said, "No." But his translator said, "No, not without evidence."'
So you interpret that as a gratuitous insertion? How about if the lack of evidence had already been discussed, the ambassador had made his position clear and the translator simply added the context to make the record unambiguous?
I know you well enough to know you're quite capable of twisting something to make it look hinky when it's not.
More propaganda suggestions from the loony twit in the UK.What ever happened to Schlumpway and the other lunatic,Johnny Smoke? What's next,the John Miller bullshit,where he secures a visit with Osama (who's already been fingered for major terrorist deeds!) in his luxury cave? Sorry Sackster,I steer lear from the obvious disinfo.How come you can't tell the difference?
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