A Date That Will Live In Infamy
Our buddy Third Wave Dave has some terrific posts about the prior major attack in US history, before 9-11.
As with 9-11, the heroes of that day were household names: Dorrie Miller is my favorite story of Pearl Harbor Day.
Update: Well, one of the idiots at 9-11 Blogger has put up an FDR Knew freeway sign.
posted by Pat @ 12:34 PM
13 comments
13 Comments:
Just gives me a warm feeling all over......
Remdem I don't know about shills and such but I do know...
Am I mistaken, but weren't The McCollum Memo's points carried out by FDR?
Here is the actual memo btw :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollum_memo
McCollum never meant for the doc to be used as a blueprint for war, nor is there evidance that anyone past Knox read it.
I find it interesting that FDR pretty much followed the points that put us in a postion of war. And based upon his comments to Churchill or was it Stalin about his desire to go to war. Combine that with the memo, it isn't too much of a stretch of the imagination to speculate the conspiracy to go to war did exist and was implemented. Really, though, it is no big deal. That is how my government has operated for years.
Thanks Jay, I've already read it, from the same place of all places.
ok, np :)
The people of the time didn't but "the people" rarely do. You talk to most military personnel these days, and they'll tell you we're facing a lot more warfare in the middle east, and that Iraq was a relatively minor action meant both to delay that war, and to give us a friendly base of operations if needed. But "the people" are largely clueless about this, and believe that withdrawing from the middle east entirely is all that's needed to guarantee peace.
Hell, my RSM basically predicted 9/11. Back in '98 when I was a brand new private and he was a WO, he said something to the effect of "watch, within the next 3-5 years there will be an increase in terrorism and we'll be at war in the middle east within the same time period". Since I had all of 6 months in the military, I thought he was right out of 'er, but most of the guys who had been in for a while tended to agree with his assessment. The thing is, the people, and subsequently the politicians, rarely tend to see the conflict coming until it's too late to do anything. That's why Chamberlains silly document was so well received despite the fact that anyone with any tactical sense would have realized it was useless, and it's also why the US people didn't want to get involved in WW2 until they were attacked - even though it was clear to most military personnel that US involvement was inevitable. "The people" will always take the path of least resistance, and will generally remain naive and clueless until the realities of the world are forced upon them.
Good point Remdem.
According to my source, a former MP for a starred general, Iraq was suppose to be the staging point for the attack on Iran. They expected Iraq to be a breaze and the BS from Washington that the Iraqis were going to accept Americans with open arms was exactly BS. With all the problems and the NK issue of course, Iran takes the back burner.
The only way to acheive true peace is to allow the State of Palestine to exist and to stop meddling in another country's affairs. However, capitalism by nature doesn't allow for that.
The daming evidence left out of the previous posts:
9. It is not believed that in the present state of political opinion the United States government is capable of declaring war against Japan without more ado; and it is barely possible that vigorous action on our part might lead the Japanese to modify their attitude. Therefore, the following course of action is suggested:
* A. Make an arrangement with Britain for the use of British bases in the Pacific, particularly Singapore.
* B. Make an arrangement with Holland for the use of base facilities and acquisition of supplies in the Dutch East Indies.
* C. Give all possible aid to the Chinese government of Chiang-Kai-Shek.
* D. Send a division of long range heavy cruisers to the Orient, Philippines, or Singapore.
* E. Send two divisions of submarines to the Orient.
* F. Keep the main strength of the U.S. fleet now in the Pacific in the vicinity of the Hawaiian Islands.
* G. Insist that the Dutch refuse to grant Japanese demands for undue economic concessions, particularly oil.
* H. Completely embargo all U.S. trade with Japan, in collaboration with a similar embargo imposed by the British Empire.
10. If by these means Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better. At all events we must be fully prepared to accept the threat of war.
If I'm not mistaken, didn't FDR carry out those actions to a T to lead the Japanese to attack us?
Remdem You left out the most important part of the memo. Thanks for the try though!
We see the Panay incident, where Japanese pilots strafed a US gunboat multiple times, despite the huge american flag painted on it.
Japan later appologized and paid the amount of restitituion that the USG demanded. The Japanese weren't ready to awaken the sleeping giant yet.
The mid level memo never got father than Knox
What you mean is that there is no evidence that the memo didn't get to FDR. No one knows. Did someone walk up and place it on his desk? Did a cabinet meeting bring up the information in the memo? I think what your trying to say is that that piece of paper didn't reach FDR so he is excused from the conspiracy.
Again, unless I'm mistaken, didn't FDR's policy follow the points to a T? Oh wait, another random act of God to explain geo-political events. Check gotcha!
What you mean is that there is no evidence that the memo didn't get to FDR. No one knows.
That's not true! YOU know exactly what happened, right? Let me guess, FDR shot the messenger so that the poor bastard couldn't tell anyone? Ohh, or maybe he just paid him off. Or the FBI threatened him. Something like that, right?
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