The Top Lies and Deceptions of Loose Change 1-10
Some of these are a bit redundant, since we have already covered many of the topics, but I wanted to produce a list of the top lies and deceptions of Loose Change. As you can tell from reading this blog and the Reader's Guide, there are literally hundreds of things wrong with the movie, but I wanted to compile a short (relatively speaking) list of the ones that really slap you in the face. I will probably post this up as a DOC or a PDF eventually. More to follow...
1. Claim: Charles Burlingame, an ex-Navy F4 pilot who worked in the Pentagon, participated in an exercise simulating crashing a 757 into a building in October 2000, before retiring to take a job at American Airlines,
Truth: Charles Burlingame started working for AA in 1979 and retired from the Naval Reserve in 1996, 4 years before these supposed exercises took place. Source
2. Claim: Investors with prior knowledge of 9/11 made millions buying put options on airline stock.
Truth: Both the 9/11 committee and business journalists investigated this claim and found nothing unusual. Much of the investment also involved purchasing airline stock. Source
3. Claim: Plane crashing into World Trade Center was identified as a windowless cargo plane.
Truth: The man who claimed this, Marc Birnbach, was over 2 miles away at the time. Source
4. Claim: An air traffic controller reported that they thought flight 77 was a military plane.
Truth: The full quote was referring to the unsafe way the plane was flying, not that it was impossible for a civilian plane to fly like that. "The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane you don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe." Source
5. Claim, Flight 77 managed to tear 5 light poles completely out of the ground,
Without damaging either the wings or the light poles themselves.
Truth: We don’t know that the wings were undamaged, since they crashed into the Pentagon fractions of a second later. There are pictures of the light poles, however, which show them broken and twisted. Source
6. Claim: The official explanation for flight 77 at the Pentagon is that the intense heat from the jet fuel vaporized the entire plane.
Truth: No official has made that claim, and in fact numerous pieces of the plane, including the bodies of the passengers, and the black boxes were found. Source
7. Claim: A spokesman for Rolls-Royce stated that engine parts found at the Pentagon did not belong to any of their engines.
Truth: The spokesman stated specifically that he was not an engineer and was not familiar with the engine in question. Source
8. Claim: Karl Schwarz President and Chief Executive Officer of Patmos Nanotechnologies LLC and I-Nets Security Systems, identified the engine as being a JT8D turbojet engine belonging to an A-3 Skywarrior.
Karl Schwarz is a proven fraud and conspiracy theorist, with no known background in technology or avionics. His companies are shell corporations with no employees or products. Furthermore, the A-3 Skywarrior never used a JT8D engine. The engine in question is consistent with that of the Rolls-Royce RB211 used by the 757. Source and here
9. Claim: Employees at the Pentagon were seen suspiciously carrying away a large box shrouded in a blue tarp.
Truth: The blue tarp was a tent, used to aid in the crash response. Source
10. Claim: The damage to the Pentagon was completely inconsistent with a Boeing 757?
Truth: Studies by NIST, the ASCE and Purdue University, including computer simulations show that the damage was perfectly in keeping with a crashing airplane. Source
posted by James B. @ 5:40 PM
157 comments
157 Comments:
I love this- "the 911 conmission" found nothing unusual about the put stock airline options before 911. OMG!! The 911 Commission? It was like the criminals investigating themselves as happens so often in this administration. The fact is those put options happened and they are EXTREMELY unusual. Here is an article from former cop Michael Ruppert who is more knowlegeable than the idiots who wrote this site.
http://www.hereinreality.com/insidertrading.html
What is with the "Spokesman for Rolls Royce said none of the parts were from their engines" comment? That is called a STRAW MAN. That is when you make up a false claim by your opponent then knock it down, I have NEVER read anyone say that,if they did they are not part of the 911 skeptics mainstream beliefs. What is sad is that unknowledgeable people will see this site and think that your points are valid
No, that is a completely accurate representation of the movie. Click on the link, I discuss it at length, quoting verbatim from the movie and the news article they cite.
Unemplawyer, if you believe that 80% of Loose Change is wrong, then how does it help your cause? Is it that your cause is so strong that it can handle an 80% falsehood rate?
Unemplawyer, if you allowed me to lie 80% of the time, I could put together a convincing argument that Canada was a physical impossibility...
For me until there is an explanation of the 16 ft hole surrounded by windows (rather than the entire side of the Pentagon as a plain would have done) then there is a conspiracy.
And I don’t do conspiracies;)
Mat Ripley
www.salted.net
Mat, it wasn't a 16 foot hole, it was 90 feet. Go to the link I posted up above, I even have pictures.
And each side of the Pentagon is 921 feet, so with a 124 foot wingspan it would not have taken up the entire side.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Flight 77 may or may not have hit the Pentagon - the Raytheon Global Hawk has the same wingspan, but the difficult question is, if there were no bodies on the scene, how could they hide this?
A Global Hawk has a similar wingspan, but only about 1/10 the mass, and is much slower. Besides, it has a very distinctive shape, that could never be mistaken for a commercial jetliner, even in the worst visual conditions.
Bodies were found at the scene, so it is a pointless question. One soldier reported finding bodies still strapped to their seats.
I know You are But What am I?
Interesting reading...it is hard to know the truth, probably never will. Even so it would be foolish to believe the U.S. govt does not practice deception, even (especially) upon it's own citizens. No doubt the events of 9/11 have changed the way our government controls our lives, just as , I'm fairly sure, they were intended to.
Why does OBL take all the credit?
What does the US have to gain--other than economic collapse?
Wouldn't risking exposure, if the "terrorists" were still alive in the middle east, do extreme damage to any credibility?
There are just too many questions that would risk any scenerio of an inside job.
And ultimately, what would the administration have to gain in such an event?
And the investors making millions off the airline stock--can't Al-Qaeda buy stocks?
No, read it more carefully.
A senior pilot at American Airlines, he began his airline career in 1979 after graduating from the Naval Academy in 1971.
------------------------
He was a 1971 graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy and an honor graduate of the Navy "Top Gun" school, in Miramar, California. He flew F-4 Phantoms for the Navy and served aboard the USS Saratoga. He continued military service as a reserve officer retiring at the rank of Captain in 1996.
this is really a south park gag, right?
you missed the point of LOOSE CHANGE--it's to ask questions, something that the news industry has failed to do for some time.
the other point? like Hunter S. Thompson suggested--"who benefits from this?" Osama got nothing out of this except adulation from radical Islamicists...who are now fighting our troops in Iraq. BTW, those Islamicists were kept in check by Sadam Husein. Isn't that a funny coincidence?
also, who do you work for, Mr. Screw Loose Change?
Yeah and those Pentagon studies also showed the wings neatly folding into the hole in the side of the Pentagon. The NIST grahic in its report shows the tilt of the 'plane' with the left engine kind of blobbed up with the ground. Oops...no gouges in the ground from this tilt then how can they justify the graphic with reality? They can't.
This kind of list is a great idea, but you have to do a better job of explaining yourself... you need details, not just claims and assertions.
You have answered all my questions.
I think that the most compelling evidence that this was not an inside job or conspiracy was the fact that something like Loose Change exists.
We are talking about the United States Government here, the most powerful force on Earth - don't you think that if they were going to plan something like this they would have done a better job? Figured out all the angles? Made sure there were perfect alibis, made sure that all of the mechanics added up, made sure that it didn't look at all like a conspiracy? We have the funds, we have the friends, we have plenty of people willing to literally die to make something like this happen.
Now, I have to say, I'm extremely compelled by the evidence, especially "insidejob"'s comment on here. But isn't my point something to consider? I'm sure if the USA wanted to attack itself and make it look like terrorists did it, they could have made it an airtight case. Don't you?
This site does serve a useful function. It keeps the moonbats and fruitcakes busy trying to debunk the debunking, and hopefully out of worse mischief.
Yeah, there's nothing more that needs to be said. This site is what IT folks call a honeypot. Keep the lunatic leftists busy here and they'll be too worn out to cause problems elsewhere. And hey guys, if the US govt is the most powerful organization on earth, why the heck is this blog (and all your comments) still here? Why aren't you being followed around by the men in black? Be careful! They know who you are and it's only a matter of time before they kick in your door and try to shut you up! hahahahah!
You guys rock! Fuck conspiracy theories, they are bullshit 99% of the time. !
SGASL is a raging idiot with no grasp on reality. This is how your government controls you people. by making you chase your tail around. Take a look at some real issues, and use that intellect for something worthwhile. You think that because "question" it makes you noble don't you. I can't stand you and people like you. You give legitimate question askers a bad name.
My Question to anyone who thinks it was a bunch of Arabs.....What in the world was the motivation to spend the kind of money it takes to pull this off? Three thousand dead Americans? CMON PEOPLE!!!! That doesnt mean jack sh*t. We still stand strong, unlike when we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, leaving Japan helpless. Our military just went over there and kicked their ass. Thats like me, a 5'10 Italain guy, walking into a cop station and start stabbing them. Sure Id get one or two, but eventually my ass would be grass. So what in the world is my motivation? What do these Arabs gain by 9-11? NOTHING.
Just watched loose change, and it does raise some good questions. In an issue that has more doubts and cloudiness than the dust created from the incident itself, I think you must try firstly deal with what we do know with reasonable assurity. And the truth is to have so many theories, arguments and counter arguments on the issue of a terrorist attack raises its own suspicions. When you look at conspiricy theories on 95% of all other terrorist attacks (Madrid, London, Oklahoma city, The first WTC, and Bali to name a few) there are very little theories and those that exist have little or no solidity in their claims. Mostly becuase the investigations were transparant, and evidence was for all to see, there were no agents stealing video tapes, and buildings not even hit by the attacks collapsing, and mysterious missing aircraft. I don't, and nobody else (bar a very few)knows for sure what hit the pentagon. But what does seem certain is that some truth is being hidden. To me this is beyond doubt, You don't try to cover something up unless there is something you don't want people to find. If the government was totally innocent, had no involvement, no forewarning of the attacks, then, they would have wanted the cameras rolling on everything, to show and unite its people as to what was happening.They would have wanted to prove undoubtedly who was to blame. Not withold information that would simply prove the truth, such as video tapes of what hit the pentagon.(which is laughable at the least to say none exist) There are not many unanswered questions for any other significant terrorist attack to this level of hype. There has never been so many unanswered and undeniable 'black holes' of information in any other major event that has ended with the total innocence of those being suspected. My point is, I think, the answer lies in the questions, for if there was total innocence, every single document, every video, every peice of metal would have been tranparantly investigated and everything laid out for all to see. The very fact that there are so many questions that may never be answered shows some level of guilt. How much no one knows, and one can only speculate and come to their own conclusions. But in my view, I am 100% sure that there is not total innocence within the government on this issue, and something is being hidden, whether major plots, or just incompetant discrepancies, something isn't being told. particularly knowing Americas history of supporting some of the most sickening regimes and individuals in history. You only have to look at Pinochet (supported by the CIA, before having to be embarrisingly removed) PopaDoc of Haiti (who was supported by US government before being removed for Appauling human rights record). The taleban (who were funded and trained by America while they were fightin the Russians). Saddam Hussain who bought weapons and was aided by America during the early stages of the Iran Iraq war. And going back further the Vietminh (VC) who were sold weapons and trained by Americans during world war 2, only to fight them 20 years later and inflict bitter defeat.
This goes to the fucknut called "unemplawyer" from Canada who says jet fuel could never bring down those buildings.
It doesn't take much heat to weaken metal. Tower 2 went down first because of the way the second plane cut into it. The weight of the (more) numerous upper floors (than Tower 1) was too much to bear after the supports had been weakened from the HEAT caused by the fuel. Then Tower 1 went the same way. It really doesn't take much more than common sense knowledge to see this as a total possibility... bla, bla, bla. Any journeyman welder, metal worker or bozo who took metal shop in high school can attest to this. You probably "are" a fucken lawyer - which have "0" credibility with me anyway.
To James B: "Unemplawyer, if you allowed me to lie 80% of the time, I could put together a convincing argument that Canada was a physical impossibility..."
As a Canadian, after looking south all these years, I'm happy to know I exist. So you yanks can just keep on thinking we're a bunch of glue sniffing, igloo dwellers. U.S. attitudes like this "are" a the root of the 9/11 attacks. By and large, you people live in a fucken dreamworld... that's the dangerous part.
Lots of information. Yet I really dont think this could be pulled off as a conspiracy. Someone would be talking by now.
Take for example the plausability of "intentionally imploding the trade centers." I beleive these would be the largest buildings ever destroyed like this. Typically and certainly in this case it would take 100's of man hours just engineering to plan THIS AND THEN MANY PEOPLE and MANY days to set explosives. all specialized skills and .not to mention that ussually large structural members are removed before such imploding... and then this has to go off with out a hitch for 3 buildings...just hard to believe cause I know that reality check would say many many people necessarry to pull this off and many months of planning and no one has come forward ...I would conservativly say to pull off all this stuff as described would take a minimum of 100 people in the "know" and 6 months of intense planning...and not one to come forward or spill the beans...this is the hard part to believe
Whatever Screw Loose Change says seems to be rubbish at every level. I have yet to see anything useful here other than corecting Loose Change slightly when it's got dates wrong!!!!
Come on you idiots! Truth will prevail regardless of you trying to debunk Loose Change or any other film out of spite. You do more to debunk yourselves throughout your film/book. With quotes like these:
"I heard lots of explosions!" from LC's witnesses and SLC saying "Is that evidence of a bomb?"
Is downright sarcastic at best. With various Fire Officers saying they'd "seen secondary devices" and then witnesses hearing/seeing explisions IS EVIDENCE worth investigating. The 9/11 Commision and all, have done no such thing ever. Other than creating more lies such as the WTC's having "a large hollow shaft in the middle" WTF!!!! Anyone who has seen designs for them can see the 47 box coloums making up the center of the WTC. It does exist! LIES LIES LIES!!!!!! Dont believe ANYONE just take in ALL the FACTS/LIES and work out which has the best grounds. 9/11 and 7/7 were BOTH inside jos as both contain the hallmarks of government involvment, so I have 3 senarios from my year or so of debating with people. The governments are accusable of either:
A) Letting them happen
B) Helping them happen
or
C) Making them happen all themselves
There are just too many oddities surrounding both events to just say "they would never do that".
Think about it, if you could get loads of land, trillions of dollers, more powers, MORE AND MORE MONEY, dominate the world and be in charge just by having some people killed and get away with it, what would you do? The less scrupulous would do it, the most nicest people would probably do it.
Dont ever be ignorant or blind of truth. I urge you all, weather believers of an inside job or not.......OPEN YOUR MIND TO POSSIBILITES YOU MIGHT NOT LIKE!
Someone said the hole at the pentagon was 16feet. Its 9feet or so in some shots, I suppose its down to your perspective of how big it was. Its worth noting the hole on the INSIDE of the Pentagon was also 9feet or so. The plane managed to plough through 9feet of steel reinforced concrete. Now thats a STURDY plane they want us to believe in! Nope, no plane is not what im saying, Im careful about the pentagon cause some reckon it might be a trap for people looking for truth. But I suggest it was a smaller plane, a missile or a plane WITH a missile. That would explain the bizzare damage. Until they stop hiding the footage we'll never know. Assuming its GOOD footage BTW
my friend loose change does not claim 2 no exactly wot happened on that day,however since i have watched this film the way i view the world and life has changed considerably. After watching loose change 2nd edition i have been continually researching 9/11 and there are gaping holes in the explanation we are given by the most powerful government in the world,if u believe wot u are being told after researching the facts u are clearly so patriotic to the war lords that have hijacked america u would rather shoot yourself in the face than stand up and question the truth that is being offered to you.its only a matter of time b4 enough people learn about the 'screw ups' in the official explanation of 9/11 and wake the fuck up!!
my friend,loose change does not claim 2 no exactly what happened on 9/11 however since watching this film the way i view life and the world has changed considerably! if u have researched 9/11 and cannot find any reason 2 question the lies that are being told u seriously need to wake up!'screw loose change' is bullshit! u need 2 look agen m8!the truth is starin u in the face but you're mind wont let u believe it.
Here's just a thought:
Suppose that 9-11 is proven to be an act of state terrorism. When compared with other acts of violence committed by a government against it's citizens, it doesn't really compete in amounts of civilian deaths (I'm thinking specifically of the Holocaust and the El Salvadoran civil wars, etc.).
I'm not denying that 9-11 is tragedy on an enormous scale. The fact is, the federal government being directly involved is really not so hard to imagine.
I know this doesn't really add to the any argument about the government being involved, but I thought I'd throw it out there. By the way, I love the discussion this forum creates. This is where true awareness is born.
you say 'steel melts at 2750F' pretty emphatically. I can say 'water boils at 100F' but ya know what, at 1000 ft altitude it may boil at 95F. On Mount Everest you can boil water at 75F. You’re not even taking into account the carbon content of the steel, which has everything to do with it's bending point, which by the way is nowhere near 2750F. A blacksmith bends high carbon steel in a tiny oven fueled by a couple pounds of COAL. But thousands of gallons of jet fuel won't do the trick, wow that makes alot of sense!
This is a common mistake that many people make. Jet fuel only burns at 1700 degrees Fahrenheit when it's not in open air. Also, that is the maximum temperature in which it can burn at while in closed spaces. Obviously the jet fuel did not burn in a closed space because there was a gaping hole in the building from the crash. Jet Fuel in open-air burns anywhere from 500 degrees to 599 degrees Fahrenheit. A kitchen fire sets off 1100 degrees Fahrenheit. Consider the wind at that height and it's probably somewhere around 400 degrees. Refined steel melts anywhere from 2500 to 3000. Depending upon who and how well someone makes it.
Although the impact of the jetliners was strong, it was the heat from the explosion that most likely caused the buildings to collapse, experts say.
Richard Ebeltoft, a structural engineer and University of Arizona architecture lecturer, speculated that flames fueled by thousands of gallons of aviation fuel melted the building's steel supports.
The excerpt above is directly from the 9/11 commission report. We can therefore conclude that the report is flawed.
Now just because the report is incorrect doesn't mean that there's a conspiracy afoot. However.
WTC buildings burnt for less than an hour and fell from a fire burning at 500 degrees.
Scientists have burnt down houses made of brick and stone and even tile at 1100 degrees. It usually takes hours for the building to fall due to the WOOD support beams holding up the building even after they've burnt.
This just cannot go unnoticed. It just can't...
I like what yiddish_redneck had to say:
Basically, if there was a conspiracy... there will be people who deny it. And if there was no conspiracy, there will be people to deny it. Your faith can move mountains. (it isn't necessarily the mountain moving... it is only you)
The Captain Burlingame seam, it seemes, came from Barbara Honegger.
James, your attempted debunking of loosechange is to say the least a SLOPPY job.
The facts are set in stone for all to see, the information is out there for all to see. Buildings collapsing at free fall speed after an hour of low heat burning.
LOOSECHANGE IS NOT THE AUTHORITY ON THE SUBJECT!!! THIS CERTAINLY LOOKS LIKE A PERSONAL VENDETTA AGAINST THEM
FLIGHT 93 LEAVING NO WRECKAGE, NO BODIES, AND AS THE ON SITE CORONER SAID "HE STOPPED BEING A CORONER AFTER 10 MINUTES" NO BODIES NO BLOOD NO EVIDANCE OF A DEATH.
WHY CONFISCATE VIDEO OF THE PLANE WHICH HIT THE PENTAGON? (STILL HAS NOT RELEASED ANY FOOTAGE WHICH RESEMBLES A PLANE HITTING THE PENTAGON)
DOES THE GOVERNMENT HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE?
THERE ARE NUMEROUS QUESTIONS WHICH NEED ANSWERING.
EVERYTIME I AM CONVINCED THERE IS A LOGICAL EXPLANATION FOR WHAT HAPPENED BY READING BLOGS LIKE YOURS.
I INVESTIGATE FURTHER AND SEE YOUR SITE FOR WHAT IT IS, A LOAD OF ILL-INFORMED TRASH WITH VERY LITTLE RESEARCH AND NO EXPLANATION WHICH HOLDS UP TO ANY REAL SCRUTINY.
I MUST ASK, DO YOU WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT?
Lets Remember CNN,Fox,nbc, Ect. pretty much every news media and radio stations are controlled and or owned by Jews.........let that one sink in to your head.....and guess who transfers all phone calls made in the USA to Domestic and International...
so u dissproved some of the statments. why dont you mention any thing about the real evidence such as the colaplse of steel foundation proven to with stand the heat of the fire and the mulitple explosions clearly seen and heard before the building collapsed but after they were struck by the planes oooo ya and if the film "loose change" was a fruad why is the goverment so afraid of what it has to say.
so u dissproved some of the statments. why dont you mention any thing about the real evidence such as the colaplse of steel foundation proven to with stand the heat of the fire and the mulitple explosions clearly seen and heard before the building collapsed but after they were struck by the planes oooo ya and if the film "loose change" was a fruad why is the goverment so afraid of what it has to say.
so u dissproved some of the statments. why dont you mention any thing about the real evidence such as the colaplse of steel foundation proven to with stand the heat of the fire and the mulitple explosions clearly seen and heard before the building collapsed but after they were struck by the planes oooo ya and if the film "loose change" was a fruad why is the goverment so afraid of what it has to say.
Having watched the British Made documentry on the assassination of Pres. Kennedy and now Loose Change, it just shows that the powers have honed their skills and that Screw Loose Change is living in the past and wants to see a world that isn't there. It would be nice to ignore Loose Change and believe that a skinny unskilled "patsy" killed a president but then Mark Twain would have stayed broke too !
Above in this blog a blogger says: "As members of the worlds foremost democracy..."!!! This is outrageous. It is the best democracy money can buy. I live in a country of 4million people which has 6 political parties(which is still not enough). How can 2 parties adequately represent the views of 250million plus people?? America...home of the free and the brave...it always makes me laugh!Idiots.
screw loose change? I dont think so govy boys! So, what is the current pay rate for selling your FREEDOM??? So you're telling me you enjoy the patriot act? You sure are defending it. Unplug yourselves from the matrix. Open your eyes and see the truth.
O.o I cant really believe I am hearing soooo many stupid people talk. Loose change is complete bullshit...Find the mad maddox's webpage which makes very much sense. The sole reason that I know loose change is bullshit is that the people who made it (college kids with not enought free time) are still living.
Reality is that which refuses to go away when I stop believing it - Phillip K. Dick.
for all those who think LC is full of crap... you're entitled to your opinion. however, i would urge you to use common sense. why is it SO outrageous a claim that the gov't was somehow involved in 9-11? i'm a veteran of the US Army and when i took my oath of induction, i swore to defend this country from ALL enemies... foreign and DOMESTIC. it pains me to concede that the circumstances surrounding 9-11 point directly at the gov't. i didn't want to believe it... but the truth of the matter is certain aspects of 9-11 leave no room for other culprits. bin laden can't send our nation's defenses off to a region of the planet rendering them obsolete in the event of an attack on american soil... neither can he manipulate the physics surrounding the collapse of the twin towers. any person that can honestly convince themselves that those two buildings collapsed the way they did without the aid of explosives throughout the building has to rethink much of who they are as logical human beings...
As an Englishman living in Europe I find it incredible that the majority of the American public will believe ANYTHING that their Government tells them. I understand that you want to believe but just use common sense: you cannot carry on believing them when they continually lie to the very people they are supposed to be working for. Your Government, and others including the British Government, have continually lied, misinformed and deliberately misled their citizens for decades. For God's sake wake up! If Tony Bair or George bush told me it was night time I would have to go outside and check.
Screw it all. Debating helps nothing. only action. This crap is all so old it drove me crazy.
To the posters who are actually saying something (and not just ranting) I commend you all on both sides. My take on this matter is a bit complex.
First off, I am NOT convinced that 100% of the official report is true. I'm also NOT convinced that all of the proposals in "Loose Change" are true. I don't see enough evidence in the reports and photographs of the Pentagon to convince me that a 757 hit it. But, I have a hard time believing that there was a covert op to throw identifiable, dead bodies into the wreckage. I do not believe there is any way whatsoever that the towers and subsequently WTC-7 fell with such precision based on a few thousand gallons of burning jet fuel. That simply didn't happen, no way.
So, I feel that "Loose Change" is a very important piece in it's success in waking up a thought process that it seems so many people around the world have laid down. To actually question "facts" we are served. The freedom that so many tout as the final justification for raping and destroying hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, the freedom that America promises to the world with every explosion, is based on the questioning of authority and the personal review of information.
So, did Cheney sit in a bunker with a radio control on missiles? I really doubt that. Did all the myriad coincidences of the official report happen, not a chance. I commend the producers of Loose Change and look forward to whatever new information and ideas it fosters.
I have seen a couple movies claiming the conspiracy, and I've read a lot of this website. And so far, I am so confused about this whole thing, and I don't know what to think. I think government is a bunch of crap, I think Dylan represented his movie and opinions poorly in many videos I've seen. On one hand it seems obvious that the US government did this to us, because of all the potential gains. On the other hand Dylan's shady movie was fully of inconsistencies, lies, and half truths. Yet, despite all of it. A lot of video footage makes it seem that the buildings came down oddly and shouldn't have in the first place. I think there are errors in this website AND Loose Change. I think that if enough people see loose change, a huge international investigation would take place and unfold hard facts that are backed up undoubtedly. That's what everyone needs. As long as it's not aired on Fox. Lol. Anyway. The only thing that is still really pushing me that 911 is an inside job, is William Rodriguez's speech about 911, and his experience. I don't know what to believe. Researching this topic gives mixed biased results everywhere, and it's very difficult to find any relevance to anything either proving it, or disproving it. One day when we are all old, we will either think back to that horrible movie that convinced many people that our government did horrible things for profit, or we will think back to that shady movie that brought up enough questions about 911 that it ended up uncovering the largest cover up in history.
I am pained at the stupidity of people. A bunch of idiots make a movie with carefully edited quotes and sitting ‘facts’ without using common sense, and this many people just want to believe in conspiracy so badly they just eat it up.
Yes I know jet fuel doesn’t burn hot enough to melt steal, Jet fuel will burn hot enough to weaken steal to about 50% or so. So you don’t have to melt it just weaken it. Mind you there is also a gaping hole in the building. Easy enough to find out on your own right? I guess not sense every moron who saw this stupid video jumps at the chance to tell me the melting point of steal.
Yes I know before and sense 9/11 no sky scraper ever fell down dew to fire. How many sky scrapers before or sense were also holed by a fucking jet liner doing about 450 MPH before catching on fire?!?!
Yes I know we’ve all scene plane crashes on the new, and most of the time there are more and bigger peaces of the planes. Lets try some common sense thinking. Think of a car hitting a wall at 40 MPH and the damage that causes, and the much more destructive damage that happens at 80 MPH. Now apply that to a plane, most crashes are not pilots bend on destroying the plane with the throttles wide open trying to kill people. Most occur around the Stall speed of the air craft between 100 and 180 MPH depending on make and model, while the pilots try and keep it in the air. On 9/11 the planes were going around 500 MPH. So even a trained chimp could figure out that high speeds at impact mean, more damage. So to translate that in to moron for all you retards out there. Things that break a low speeds, break even worse at high speeds!
Now time for dumbass assumptions made in lose change.
1. The government is smart and skilled enough to execute the grandest conspiracy in the history of time in front every American with a TV, but they can’t properly manage a war in a 3rd world shithole like Iraq.
2. The government has no problem lying to the world about 9/11, but it does somehow see a moral dilemma in planting WMDs in Iraq after the invasion to prove there case.
3. Bill Clinton can’t get head in the oval office from some chunky bitch with out the whole world hearing about it, but the government can keep the 10s of thousands of people that would have to be involved with a 9/11 conspiracy quite.
4. The plane is going to fire a missile into the tower before it crashes into it, and the masterminds of this conspiracy who have taken years to plan this out can only hope there is a bad camera angle and nobody sees this happen.
5. The government has no problem killing 3000 of it’s own citizens , but they wouldn’t dare kill the guys who try to expose there plot the second lose change is posted to the internet. Please don’t give me your bullshit excuses like “Well if these guys died then we’d know for sure!” Cause if the government made this big huge plan and carried it out, it wouldn’t end on September 11th 2001. It would continue after and they would have people looking for leaks and covering there asses. These guys would be killed the day they posted and no one but the 5 people who watched this hunk of shit video would care, and none of them would bother checking up to see if the government erased the lose change crew.
Some people just can’t handle that the world is so unsafe, that this could happen all because 19 jerk offs had nothing better to do with there lives but sneak into our country and kill themselves. This is nothing new. Some people couldn’t handle that an tiny little meaningless man like Oswald could kill JFK. Some people need to know that the only people who can hurt them are the ones with the might of the US government and no one else. It helps you sleep at night sure, but it’s still deluding yourself.
In closing I have to admit I get a laugh out of this. Cause you people will believe what you see on some dumb ass internet video, and the whole time the guys who made Lose Change know that they are full of shit and must think you believers out there are even more retarded then I think you are. Kinda ironic.
There is nothing on this site that changes my mind about what happened on 9/11. Our government was involved. From the twin towers coming down at freefall speed, building 7, a block away, imploding after sustaining very little damage, the support buildings at the base of the towers remaining standing after being severely damaged, the impact site at the pentagon baring no resemblance to one of a commercial jet hitting it. The list goes on and on. 9/11 was an inside job and the sooner people wake up and face those facts the sooner we can hold those responsible accountable.
Insidejob wrote:
--------------------
Israeli intelligence agency (Mossad) and government insiders knew the attacks were coming, and may have been involved in them:
Mossad agents were filming the towers before the airplanes even hit them, and began dancing and celebrating when the planes hit and when the towers collapsed :
This is a link to the article originally published by ABC News:
http://www.uscrusade.com/forum/config.pl/noframes/read/1405
Source: ABC News, Saturday, June 22nd, 2002.
--------------------
Okay, this is why many people think 9-11 conspiracy theorists are somewhere between dumb kooks and evil twits.
The ABC article mentions no dancing and celebrating.
Here’s what the article really says:
--------------------
Maria says she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. "They seemed to be taking a movie," Maria said.
The men were taking video or photos of themselves with the World Trade Center burning in the background, she said. What struck Maria were the expressions on the men's faces. "They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange," she said.
--------------------
So all of this rests on one woman’s interpretation of facial expressions. No dancing and celebrating!
The article further says:
--------------------
Sources also said that even if the men were spies, there is no evidence to conclude they had advance knowledge of the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11. The investigation, at the end of the day, after all the polygraphs, all of the field work, all the cross-checking, the intelligence work, concluded that they probably did not have advance knowledge of 9/11," Cannistraro noted.
--------------------
So to prove your point you cite a source that concludes the exact opposite of what you’re saying. This should be so embarrassing for you. Shouldn’t it? At most you’ve got exactly zero evidence of Israeli involvement in 9-11.
I saw the film. I dunno what to make of it at times. It does raise some questions, but I somehow get the funny feeling that the guys who did loose change are in it for the money. After all, it did start off as fiction.
What gets me is that were they actually there at the Pentagon? Probably not. But how they seem to whimsically just ignore countless people's testimony on seeing a commercial sized passenger plane flying real low over I-395 is beyond me. Oh wait, all those people who gave their testimonies are actually government agents?
I can see the point people are making about how LC is supposed to raise questions. It does raise a question: are the LC people in it for the money?
One more thing i wanted to add. Imagine you wrote a paper in college or post undergrad and you wrote it in the manner of which LC was constructed. I bet the prof would most likey return it to you with a big fat "F." That said, would then the prof say well, your paper raised some interesting questions, or rather something to the effect of learn how to write. I would think most professors would pick the latter. How can a flawed paper actually raise serious questions when it uses flawed sources and discounts any source that it does not agree with.
no I'm not trying to defend this site, although I think it makes some relevant points. I just find it an insult to my intelligence that LC people want me to think they are raising questions with the way they supported their points? I think misquotes speak for themselves. Please be honest and ask yourself if you would ever write a paper the way these guys made their points in the movie.
You can try to screw a few details, but you can never make the twin Towers to go down as they did, without explosives within.
Please use your mind, and not your heart or your pride.
i hate these tossers who made this lame video, such disrespect for the people who died that day
i ever find that cunt responsible for this video ill crash that motherfucker myself into a building
I have 3 questions about the movie Loose Change version 2.
I the formula that they use for the speed of collapse is wrong. They say it is T squared = D squared / Acceleration. The actual formula is T squared = D / Accleration. They further made a mistake by doubling a value that they said should be squared. The height of the towers.
At every crash site the area of damage is much wider than they state and can be determined comparing sizes of objects near the damage sites. The hole int he groud and compare tot he cross bars of the electric pole.
I only watched once and those things just jumped out at me.
They show Osama eating and writing with his right hand even though he is left handed. I am left handed and having travelled in Muslem countries I know that it is considered filthy to eat with your left hand. it is considered rude to even hand something to someone with your left hand. It can make things difficult for those of us who are left handed.
Hoboken2
all i know is you cant go anywhere but to hell with the lies you are trying to cover up! i bet if your family was harmed that day you would sing a different song... and besides, do you think your lies will matter in the end? our "gov" is screwing YOU TOO! they will chew you up and spit you out when you are done serving their purpose...for you to even consider that bush is not underhandedly responsible for 911, makes me wonder what part you played in all this! give it a rest... after all, the truth always prevails, and your sins shall also be known...
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Am I the only one here to question how a respected university got building plans which reveals load bearing floor plans and then publishes the image of such structural integrity of the pentagon on the Internet without censorship from the government?
Keep bringing the BS... I'll keep shooting it down.
Your so called wannabe-counter-Loose Change all are not related to those facts it is trying to counter it a enough-substantial way.
Just not enough. Plus your counter attacks suck.
I bet a White House Aide runs this blog hiding his/her identity as some dumbass in the wild.
Alright. I am so sick of people acting like I'm a loony when they're talking about a mass conspiracy involving...practically everyone. I'm not that patriotic. I don't care one way or another for Bush. I'm just sick of people gnawing each other's heads off! Just stop! The most believable idea out there is that a plane crashed into some towers. But, maybe all of you guys want this big mass conspiracy to be true. You want chaos.
Hahaha...I can use Ad Hominem too. If your going to be classy about "debunking" LC, try taking a non-political way about it. Same goes for LC...I saw the debate with Popular Mechanics. But I think LC is great because it gets people thinking. Right or wrong...it gets everyone thinking about the life around them. The only thing worse than a liar is apathy. You might as well be dead if you don't care about anything.
Loose Change has made me think long and hard about the truth of what we have been told. I encourage everyone to see this movie and look at the rebuttals online and decide for themselves. For me...call me a nut...but my views have changed. Sorry Screw Loose Change, you lose.
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I am the terrorist who flew the plane into WTC. I want to blog with you stupid americans and I want to say this to you...
I hate you and I want to kill all of you. It was too bad I only killed thousands of you.
Why is it so hard for you stupid americans to believe I hate you so much that I want to kill you all? You LC fans, you are the worst. You are taking the glory away from me. All I wanted was to serve my Ala and kill everyone of you infidels. Oh ya, did I mention I hate you? Now I hate you more. My Ala says to me "Muhamed, I will not give you 1000 virgins. Because noone believes you did what you did". I say to my Ala "It's not my fault americans are so stupid". Ala says back to me "Stupid or not, they all say Bush did it. So I will give Bush 1000 virgins and you get to watch the LC movie".
I HATE YOU STUPID AMERICANS! I HATE YOU LC!!
Can you please tell everyone to stop thinking so much and accept the fact that I did it. I am the terrorist who hates you and want to kill you. Don't try to be my friend. I want virgins not friends. The more you blog about steel, concrete, temperature, jet engines, the sadder I get. Why can you not just think 'Hmmm, that terrorist did a good thing. Now I have more reason to hate america. Yes you hate america just like me. But dont take away from my hate and my glory. Also dont make the same mistake I made. Understand if you kill americans, you will not get the glory. Americans like to blame Bush. And Ala give Bush more virgins. Maybe you wait after 2008. But when you do, do it really obvious for the stupid americans. 'How obvious?' you ask me. I say I wish I knew. I thought I made it pretty clear for you stupid americans. If I do it again, I ask LC to document my glory. But they would tell me they cant sell movie about terrorist killing americans. It's been done before they say. Done by Bush's government. What does a terrorist have to do?
I used to hate Bush myself because he is american president and he is Christian and he is rich and he is from Texas, and he likes baseball and you fill in the blank. Now I envy him like hell. He is going to be a happy man when he dies. I should have been that happy.
Lastly, I say to america... Please dont forget me. I am the terrorist who flew the plane into WTC and I hate america -- almost as much as you hate yourselves. Now I know you are stupid and you are cowards. If you hate yourselves so much, why not kill yourselves, why wait for me to do your dirty work. Stupid cowards, go watch LC movie, go celebrate your stupidity. Just dont forget me, you know, the terrorist. At least learn from me and my brothers like me. We love our country, our people, and our Ala. So much is our love we are willing to die for it and burn you stupid americans in our death. Yes, I am the terrorist.
It is really sad to realize that there are so many people that are just so stupid and paranoid. Mental illness is running rampant in the U.S., that's for sure.
Then again, I hate George Bush so much, if people want to live in some crazy, delusional stoned-out world where George Bush and his cronies are evil murderers-- hey, I'll take it! Vote Democrat!
There is absolutly nothing useful in any of this. Tons of speculation and not one damn thing that can or cannot be proven or dis proven. It amazes me that we can analyze something like this for so long. It is simple. It would take a massive effort to pull off such a huge project of this type. And lets ask the real question. What would be the objective? What is the pay off? I believe that there are easier ways to accomplish anything you could possibly come up with. I believe that there are evil people in the world and our government may not be perfect but damn people get out of the twilight zone. If you conspiracy theory people are right you wont change a damn thing about what happened. If you are wrong it wont change a damn thing about what happened. Every human being has a weakness and to get rid of the people involved in this when that weakness presents itself you would need a hole as big as the Grand Canyon. And dont bother coming back at me with a scientific equation of how stupid I am I know the Grand Canyon is huge. That analogy is as dumb as the rest that are flying around about this. And if George Bush is as dumb as everyone says he is and I am not leaning one way or the other he would be the first to spill the beans. I leave you with this. There is no such thing as a secret if more than one person knows about it.
What happened to all four aircraft?
Every plane involved in a crash with multiple fatalities that I have ever seen in my lifetime has had one similar outcome: the NTSB puts the debris of the aircraft back together in a hangar and take pictures
like this:
picture
from a different loose change forum
or like the investigation on this site
not this scarred burnt "hole in the ground" and scarred burnt "hole in the Pentagon" B.S. In short, the public is being asked to believe that four aircraft VAPORIZED as a result of their own jet fuel burning. This claim remains inconsistent with the pre 9/11/2007 history of aviation crashes. So many things changed on 9/11... so many things including what happens to airplanes that crash.
One more example: this Chinese accident
One final question and one final comment:
Question: Were they using very special jet fuel on the four aircraft described as being involved on 9/11?
Comment: Screw "Screw Loose Change," unless, maybe there was just a screw loose somewhere.
How come all conspiracy theorists are all idiots? all of your stupid little theories have been disproved by reputable journals, such as Popular Mechanics. your theories are laughable, and if you seriously believe that the government that has no problem killing 3,000 citizens, do you seriously believe that the leaders of the conspiracy theorist groups would be alive. the government would not allow for a master plan such as theirs to be ruined by a few yuppie liberal scum college students. I honestly can not believe the theories you have concocted, they are all absurd, all have been disproved multiple times, and none have stood up to any close amount of scrutiny.
everyone has the right to be stupid, conspiracy theorists abuse this right. I know i will be bitched out by idiots, but I say bring it on!!!!
~Trevor
Trevor
You obviously did not read the popular mechanics explaination.
i cited one example, would you like to hear a few more? how about...
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
or
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html
or
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html
and btw, i have read the entire popular mechanics report, as well as the loose change guide from start to finish, and to boot, I have read the NIST fact sheet. as said before, bring it on all you nutjobs out there, I'm ready and waiting!
~Trevor
Boy I love this, at least this bogus site has done something positive. Most of you are on the right track and that track leads right to Washington D.C. and Wall Street.
But we need to see the bigger picture. It took alot of people to pull this off, but nobody is talking. Why? We have to stop thinking of these people the way we think of each other. We have morals and we know evil when we see it.These people aren't like us, in fact they think they are betters. They have no morals. They think of us like we are sheep, to be led and hearded to do their bidding.
9/11 has been on the planning table for a long time. They needed a way to scare us into giving away our rights. Once they have the population the way they want we and our children's children are in real trouble.
We now have the Europen Union and the American Union has already been formed you just don't know it yet. If you love this Country.....man to hell with that IF YOU LOVE THIS WORLD we must DEMAND answers and changes.
We must realize that the people that did this horrible thing is woven into the establishment like a fine silk handkerchif. So we must demand sweeping change. If not it will happen over and over again.
Stay awake don't let them fool you anymore, later.
hey dick head, read claim number one and the "truth" over and over until you realize how you're not debunking the claim yet you're reinforcing it.
This is a bunch of bulll ,
Loose changes is a great movie.
Ok..so what about the 16 foot EXIT hole in the inner rings of the pentagon? are we to believe its the planes nose that did that? There would have and should have been waaaay more damage than a single 16foot hole.
I'm very proud of all of you for using your energy and imagination to discuss this important issue.
May I add that the "top lies and deceptions" list does not address my personal questions, but dealing with the arcane, instead; a good arguement tool, but not helping push the envelope of this issue.
1. Why is it that a 7-11 can be robbed, and we can be provided with CCTV footage from outside and inside the building, documenting the robbery, whereas the most heavily defended site in north america can produce no good photos or videos of and the entire side of the pentagon, to disprove the sceptics who say 911 was an inside job?
2. Who would believe that WTC7 was designed such that a fire would weaken a central beam and its failure would bring the entire, intact structure down into it's own footprint? Any simply person off the street has built a tower of cards or blocks and watched it fall to the side, or crumble. Nothing, yet, in your arguements or that of Popular Mechanics or the US Governent has explained this "miracle" occuring at near free fall speeds.
I could go on with a dozen more obvious lies about 911 and the entire community of counter-nay-sayers is welcome to answer these such that a reasonable person would believe them.
If our own government had not lied us into the Bay of Tonkin or done deals with the Iranians... really, if this current 40 year shank of republican emperialists had not put end before means, then maybe I would have some doubt, but at this point, we are ruled by criminals who throw up false claims to be protecting our interests to justify their 40 year devlolution into fascism, and I have lost faith in national government... not the pieces, such as the post office, which are great things, but the national leadership who seem to have been won over by greed and power and forgotten the lessons of history.
popular mechanics claimed on 9/11/07 the same thing that nicky boy said. "it didnt melt the steel just weakend it." we'll if this is true how could BOTH of the buildings fall straight down. THE ONLY 3 BUILDING TO FALL FROM INTERNAL FIRES FELL ON THE SAME DAY! what are the odds. you people are starting to make me very scared for the future of this country.p-eace
Loose Change is a great movie. Nothing that anyone has said on this site nor popular mechanics has ultimately disproved ANY of the claims posited by LC. This website has had an unintended opposite effect than what the developers had in mind (I'm sure), namely their points wind up supporting the LC position even more. When you can't argue your own opinion you lend credibility to the other. Thanks LC!
Well, i've recently seen "Loose change" and i was realy impressed.
Next Step was to come to "Screw Loose Change". Actually i don't know what to believe, but thats what it is all about: We don't have to believe, we have to know! So, from this perspective I'd like to thank both, Dylan Avery and the screw LC Blog to give us platforms for a hopefully respectful discussion (about our future).
I got one thing to say Building 7.
Screw this....if you can.
http://www.aijaa.com/v.php?i=1177877.jpg
Explosion has happened in C-sector, and there is no connection to E-sector.
http://www.newsfollowup.com/images/download/010912-N-3235P-029.jpg
http://www.newsfollowup.com/images/download/010912-N-3235P-025.jpg
C-sector explosion has blown windows and doors away, this is inside the Pentagon buildin, other side wall is ok.
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/17.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpWqdPMjmo
Very next day 27 Pentagon budget analysts and accountants just die.
1-Brenda Kegler most recently as a budget analyst for the Army
2-David Laychak civilian Army budget analyst for the Pentagon
3-Samantha Lightbourn-Allen budget analyst who handled credit card
accounts for the Department of the Army
4-Shelley Marshall budget analyst for the Defense Intelligence Agency
5-Robert Maxwell civilian budget analyst for the Army
6-Molly McKenzie civilian budget analyst for the Army, was in her
first-floor office a few doors from the impact site
7-Odessa V. Morris budget analyst for the Army
8-Diana Padro staff accountant for the Department of the Army
9-Martha Reszke civilian who had worked for the Army budget office for
the past eight years
10-Cecelia E. Richard She was working as an accounting technician for
the Department of the Army the day that American Airlines Flight 77
slammed into the Pentagon
11-Edward Veld Rowenhorst civilian accountant for the Army
12-Robert E. Russell civilian budgetary supervisor for the Army,
worked at the Pentagon and hasn't been seen since the attack
13-Marjorie C. Salamone would often carpool with other Springfield
residents headed to the Pentagon, where she was an Army budget
analyst. Her husband recalled, "A neighbor came by and said, 'Your
wife was a wonderful slug,' " using the jargon for carpooling
commuters.
14-Janice M. Scott Army budget analyst. Janice Scott, who had worked
at the Pentagon since the late 1980s, was relocated last month to Room
471, First Floor, E Ring -- the area destroyed by hijacked Flight 77.
15-Antionette Sherman Doctors gave Army budget analyst Antionette
Sherman two days to live after she was burned over 70 percent of her
body when Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon on Sept. 11.
16-Edna L. Stephens With 34 years at the Pentagon, the civilian budget
analyst for the Army looked forward to retiring next year and moving
back to her home town, Gainesville, Ga. About three years ago, she
thought about retiring, but instead, Stephens bought her first home
and pushed off thoughts of retirement to the future.
17-Karl W. Teepe budget analyst.
18-Sandra White civilian in the Army budget office, but her husband, a
retired Army colonel, said she displayed the fortitude of a soldier.
19-Carrie Blagburn civilian budget analyst for the Army, has not been
heard from since Flight 77 plowed into the side of the Pentagon
housing her office Tuesday morning, loved ones said. The Army lists
her as unaccounted for.
20-Angelene C. Carter The 51-year-old accountant is among those who
went to work at the Pentagon on Tuesday and did not come home.
21-Sharon S. Carver accountant for the Army She is listed on the
Army's unaccounted-for list, and her family continues to wait for news
about her.
22-Ada Davis Army accountant and doting grandmother from Camp Springs,
is listed as unaccounted for.
23-Brenda C. Gibson 59, worked in budgeting and accounting for the
Army, a job she was so dedicated to that she had postponed surgery to
work last Tuesday and help close the books for the budget year.
24-Carolyn Halmon worked the day shift as a budget analyst for the
Army at the Pentagon. 25-Herman Halmon, her husband of nearly 30
years, worked evenings.
26-Jimmie Ira Holley Pentagon accountant shortly before 9 a.m.
Tuesday, just before a passenger plane plowed into the World Trade
Center and touched off a macabre series of events that would leave his
family devastated. An hour after the call, Jackson-Holley was at work
at the pharmacy at Fort Myer when a loud explosion shook the building.
As she and her colleagues raced outside, she looked toward her
husband's workplace and saw billowing clouds of black smoke.
27-Peggie Hurt Peggie Hurt had been on the job at the Pentagon only
two weeks. Her position in the Army's accounting section, which
followed a stint with the National Guard, was a promotion the Virginia
State University honors graduate had eagerly sought. "She was excited
to move on," said Delores Hardy, her cousin.
Unemplaywer: What part of your mother's basement do you live in?
I've noticed a couple of folks saying that the Bushes and the rest of the accused haven't motive enough to plausibly be involved in the attacks. The gist of it is (summing up quite a lot here) that 1: it certainly doesn't help the country to go to war etc.; 2: the Bushes and the rest are already pretty wealthy, they have better and less horrible ways of making money.
Both very good points. Now, without saying that I truly believe that the administration was behind anything, I have a third option to propose.
In the Middle East, there are people who routinely kill for their God. In fact, there are people who blow themselves up on buses and in crowded areas just to make a point about religion.
In Ireland, the Protestants and Catholics did all manner of violent things in an argument about the exact nature of God.
Here in the United States, we have several prominent religious leaders who routinely and with great vigor exhort their flocks to do violence to those who are perceived as enemies of the faith. Homosexuals, Muslim Terrorists, doctors who practice abortions, etc.
Everyone has a price. For some of us, that price is monetary or at least tangible. For others, the price is Salvation.
Would you kill for salvation?
More importantly, would our leaders?
Shortly after the destruction of the towers, George Bush declared not just war, but a crusade. Furthermore, he has spoken at great length on many occasions of his strong Christian faith.
The phrase 'our god is bigger than their god' has been spoken, though I'm pretty sure that was one of our more gung-ho generals.
I don't believe that 9-11 was an inside job. I don't believe it wasn't. All I believe, now and ever, is facts. Just the facts.
And there are precious few of those around. There are many assertions and expert testimonies on both sides of this line. The facts that I am aware of are as follows:
1: On September 11, 2001 aircraft struck the World Trade Center towers somewhat near the top. Near being a relative term, as these are very, very large buildings.
2: After a short interval, the towers dropped. They fell very quickly.
3: The united states air force was in its entirety far enough away from New York City and Washington, DC to prove incapable of defending either of these cities from a surprise attack.
4: #3 is an incredibly uncommon occurrence. To my knowledge we have never before left our capitol undefended. This is a gray 'fact' and if anyone has some hard evidence one way or another please post it.
5: This is the most important and telling fact. It really has little to do with 9-11 guilt, but it exists because of 9-11.
The Bush Administration has failed miserably to capture those responsible, has invaded entire nations on the pretense of chasing a (emphasis) ROGUE group of extremists with absolutely no open links to any nations on earth (this isn't to say there are no links at all. What I'm saying is that Al Quaeda was linked to Afghanistan's government in much the same way that the Black Panthers were linked to the US government in the 60's. Some support, some sympathy, and little bit of influence. If the Panthers had blown up England's Parliament, England would not have gone to war with us.) and has openly broken constitutional law several times without remorse or punishment. (Illegal surveillance, torture, elimination of Habeas Corpus and due process. Those are the big ones)
I could go on. My point is that the Bush Administration and the US government in general has been misbehaving in very harmful ways. To my mind, it doesn't matter if they had anything to do with 9-11. If Stalin had done everything he did with the exception of, say, executing journalists he would still be an irredeemable monster.
Impeachment is not enough. The entire system needs an overhaul.
What a load of bull this site is. The name itself reveals how dumb, brainwashed these people are, "screw" loose change.
Come on, explain to us how WTC7 came down, please, I am waiting eagerly.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mfR-YX1N9i4
Sure does look like a CD, doesn't it?
This whole thing is entertaining if nothing else, neither side seems to provide much in the way of reality, fact or anything else that would qualify as non-fiction. The loose change side seems to be a bunch of Bush hater's, or at least the administration, with that I agree whole heartely, he's an idiot and easily the worst president in modern history. Is he he a muderer of thousands of innicent Americans, doubtful, beyond his reach. As for the "Screw" side, I'm with you, you just need to back up your evedence a little more thoroghly as to better fend off these obviosly middle aged, parent basement dwelling parnoids. As for the latest in failed attempts at keeping this pitiful excuse for a consperacy alive, it's just what it is, people who will believe anything, as long as there is a question left unanswered, truth is not all questions in life can or ever will be answered, it doesn't mean your country is out to get you, or a dark unkown wing of the goverment is out to do either. I loved the argument by, parden if I don't care who you were, that our military spending has anyhting to do with the terrorist ability to attack us, that's why they became terrorist you brain child. Just turn on the news to see how the worlds only super power can have their ass handed to them, and while your at it explain to all the families of lost service men and women that there family members couldn't have been killed in a battle between the greatest super power of all times and a bunch of guy building there own weapons. In all, I just hope you all move on and devote as much energy to world peace, poverty, hunger.
okay also.... i dont know if this has been addressed, but if the government did indeed have nothing to hide then why would they leave out the one frame where we could clearly see the airplane. All that the Pentagon videos show is the missing frame; the government could easily release footage with the missing frame added back in and prove once and for all that some Jihad crazed terrorists did fly the plane into the Pentagon.
Pentagon Video Links:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12818225/
Pentagon Photo Link:
http://www.edwardsdavid.com/media/msnbc/images/msnbc_911_pentagon_plane_vid_060512a.jpg
and im not saying that i think a missle or plane hit it, but honestly that object is extremely tiny and all the videos have been tampered with, and with technology as it is today, the government could clean up the photo a bit and prove its a plane.
One last link (not sure about its credibility but worht a look)
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://members.shaw.ca/freedomsix/pics/crash2a.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm&h=338&w=450&sz=24&hl=en&start=56&um=1&tbnid=mIOli6Od97NoJM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpentagon%2Bairplane%2Bphoto%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3DuQf%26sa%3DN
OK--- WHAT IF THE GOV. DID SET THIS UP??? THERE IS ********NOTHING******* WE CAN DO ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!
OK--- WHAT IF THE GOV. DID SET THIS UP??? THERE IS ********NOTHING******* WE CAN DO ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!
OK--- WHAT IF THE GOV. DID SET THIS UP??? THERE IS ********NOTHING******* WE CAN DO ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!
I love this blog. I think I'll just post my favorite odd occurrence of this tragedy and await a reply.
I can possibly be convinced that ONE building could fall straight down into it's own footprint, even though they all had been rated to resist the impact of a plane like the ones that were involved.
I might even be convinced that TWO buildings could fall straight down after being hit... in exactly the same fashion.
But tell me... what are the odds of three buildings doing this? Now, don't call names, or abuse me as a moron. I would just like to hear a well composed fact enlightening me on how this could occur.
I thank you in advance, whoever you might be, for clarifying this very hazy subject.
this is missing some hard evidence and real links to real sites with real facts,
try again you narrow mined assclown
granted there is limited evidence to prove the govt did the 911 attacks but the whole terrorist thing is more fit for a fairy tale and the 911 alkaida thing had little to no fact or evidence compared to the oose change
I am always amazed at how people react so emotionally to something that they have no or very limited basis to objectively judge. There are huge credibility gaps in the official story to worry about what engine is on what plane or when who left the reserves. There are some fundamental issues at stake.
1. It is un-American to trust the government. As an organization they have conflicting interest in self-perpetuation, never mind individually preserving their jobs.
3. This scope of the operation strains the credulity of believing that the number of intelligent capable individuals needed to pull it off can be found among suicide bombers assembled for one mission.
Please. A good enough reason to disbelieve the government's story.
2. The shameful lack of interest in the current administrations in investigating an event that they claim took them completely by surprise is cause enough for distrust.
3. The current administration has given every indication that it operates with disregard for truth in a public forum. Another reason to distrust them.
4. One would think that with all of the computer power available. Someone could have created a model of the impacts and the structure and shown what are alternative collapse scenarios.
5. Building 7's collapse is reason enough do distrust the government's story.
6. The 911 commission was an insult to the collective intelligence. Another reason to distrust the governments story.
Ok so we know that the official story is ripe for disbelief, what then. Follow the money. All Loose Change has done is expose the flaws and potential flaws in the story. It has not attempted to put forward a specific conspiracy. Keep up the pressure to get better answers. The media thinks you want to hear about Britney Spears. Make it clear you want better answers.
The government will tell better lies and stories only if you the buying public demand it. It is the law of supply and demand. The lack of quality here is due to an appalling lack of demand.
So while you were concerned with all of the free money the fed was making available to the banks to loan you for more furniture and cars and toys. You all conveniently went to war and gave away fundamental expectations of freedom. Good job my fellow Americans. Keep up the ignorant work.
Follow the money trail for your answers. And take heart, under current fiscal policy, human life has never been cheaper.
Ok... I have read a lot of the blog, and just to see how people are fighting against each other, much as Loose Change's ideas clash with the government's, is mildly amusing. I am a state certified Firefighter/Medic from North Carolina, but am currently enlisted in the United States Army, and recently saw Loose Change while we were out on a field exercise. It made me think, "Wow. Another vantage point." The film is very intriguing. Wether Osama did it, or wether The Bush Administration did it does not change the fact that over 4000 people are dead and more continue to die from respiratory problems from the dust or suicide from depression... whatever the case may be. But with my background in firefighting, I can tell you that steel is a very unpredictable metal. I have seen bow-string trusses come down in warehouses at 400 degrees, and load supporting steel I-beams hold up at over 1300 degrees. I have seen builings collase from fire, but not in a "free-fall" fashion as the Twin Towers did. So perfectly and almost identically. Then #7? Come on. My personal opinion? I believe the guys who made Loose Change... Sort of. They make good points and bring up questions that deserve to be answered. Do I feel un-American for doing so? Sort of. It is a stange feeling to know that your government may have lied to you. And then voluntarily supporting said government with a great risk of losing my life, ie. Iraq/Afghanistan (which we like to refer to as "Iraqistan"). I am excited to post on this blog, and anxiously await a response. I know that putting a post on here and chosing a side is like putting your pee-pee on the chopping block, but like I said, both sides have "points". I just want to know what everyone thinks about this.
My friend, loose change makes numerous mistakes that can be easily discredited. But citing the NIST report is an example of bad judgement on your part in ascertaining sources in case you havn't researched it. They failed to explain exactly what they set out to explain in their report, why the twin towers collapsed. And I would like you to source one air tight explaination for why Building 7 collapsed. Maybe we should check the 911 report. Oh wait, they "forgot" to mention it. Before you make a snap decision and automatically believe what your government tells you, why don't you research their history as a whole. Try looking up the drug war and the Iran Contra scandal.
i wrote my blog to whoever runs this stupid website, not the soldier who can admit the truth when he sees it and still honor our country, which i think is commendable
For starters it is stated in the 9/11 commission report that the only possible way for the so called plane that supposedly hit the pentagon is that the fires burned so hot that it was vaporized. This claim is also backed by popular mechanics' david dunbarr and james meggs who have done their own scientific research of the crashes at the pentagon and twin towers. however if this is the case then how could survivors crawl from the rubble of the pentagon and the remains of computers and other debri not be completely incinerated as well. As well is this question; If in fact a plane did hit the pentagon and did indeed vaporize it self to the point that only extremely little of the plane was recovered then how is it that two more of the exact type of plane that hit the world trade centers, carrying the same amount of fuel, didnt incinerate themselves and more than 90% of boths planes were recovered from the rubble?
you have proved crap ! please regarding the pentagon , you think were idiots to assume that the jet disintegrated into thin air yet they idiots there were able to identify all the passengers through dna forensics ? oh let me guess on this one ! HMMMM so the people did not disintegrate on the steel and titanium from the jet and oh yeah the seats as luggage as well..... ? yeah sure ! WHOSE PAYROLL ARE YOU ON YOU IDIOT !
I was staying at the Sheraton that day. I was in my room on the 10th floor and saw the plane fly into the building. It wasn't a missile!!
This comment has been removed by the author.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dylan Avery just posted a personal letter on 911blogger.com that the editors of this website should find very flattering- I hope you guys like being referred to as the "worthless pricks" that you are. Seriously though, if the best you can come up with are ad homonym attack and psychoanalyses on 911 Truthers, maybe you should reconsider the existence of this site. You should try 'debunking' the main body of Loose Change Final Cut rather than attacking whatever teensy little inaccuracies you can cherrypick. Being able to poke TINY little holes in Loose Change doesn't change the fact that almost all of the evidence it presents is substantial, obvious, logical, and well-evidenced. Unless you can legitimately disprove the evidence pertaining to WTC 7's destruction, I'm afraid I have no choice but to repeatedly spam the word 'f****t' thousands of times into your email inboxes. Have a nice day.
your fucking stupid do u know how easy it is to make those sites and put an earlier created date on them.............the government will do anything to cover themselves including making false information and posting it online to support their story....everyone is blind i promise that this country doesnt know the half of what goes on that involves us
After watching not only loose change but hundreds of other clips that are poured in to youtube and other sources is stunning to glance at people that still think everything was a work of terrorist down in 9-11. To me, is seemed, and it does now more than ever a synchronous attact. All of the things that were taking place that day are just too much coincidence, talk about winning the lottery once in your life for that matter, let alone many times. Is just a mathematic issue that I have in the case where it seems that the equation is not balanced. If for the sake of being rational we are introduced to math and equations then let us sum up the details and watch the end product. Is not about being part of any side but seeking out the truth. Why are we to believe that in 9-11: 4 planes were hijacked in one day (never happened before),3 buildings felt due to fire(never happened before) 2 plane seemingly disintegrated upon impact(never happened before). How am I to belive that passports were found in the even that took place in washington and the plane that felt in pen and nothing else was found, talk about bodies, plane wreckage and other materials. How can fire melt the alloys that make up and engine that to my understanding are the strongest known to man and not obliterate the paper made passport? If you see it it was intact. how can a 125 feet wide plane translate to a 75-90 wide long hole in the pentagon with an exit hole of 16 feet? How can the same happen for the plane that felt in pen? How can that one place reduce to about 20 feet wide 14 feet deep hole in the forest with nothing more to it than a couple of pieces light and small enough to be carried by hand? And perhaps answer me this, if the plane was going so fast that it desintegrated in to small pieces (it crahed in land just so you imagine that it was soft unlike the pentagon where they could claim reirforced concrete) how come the pieces that supposedly were so hot that disappeared be carried out by hand? the ones that were left, wouldn't it have burned them? How can people be seen in the whole where the plane hit the tower 7 still alive if the fire was so intense, it got to melt the first still frame ever and also make it collapce? I can go on with questions that have never been answered and are at best ignored. I don't want to believe I live in this type of country but until given answers the theory of cover-up or conspiracy is simply more fluent with the math than the "official story". It seems to me very possible that they "goverment officials" high ranked in the goverment would have a lot of motivation to pull this off. All the political power they have gain is amazing and everything gets a green light just because they say is part of the war on terrorism. The minute they release the 100ths of videos captured by the pentagon surveillance cameras, the footage form the gas station and from the hotel and shows a plane hitting it, i WOULD SHUT UP. For now, lets just say that humanity is living under one of the greatest dark ages, one where you see but don't assimilate, where you hear but don't listen and where you have no rights. The country that was founded by the people, for the people seems to have shifted to corporate and a few other people.
For one u have no proof, no citing, and the part about the plane hitting the pentagon and no proof.. Loose Change actually had a simulation of a 757 matched to the 20 by 20 impact hole, no wings marks on the building, plus where are the pieces.. I'm not even that old and I've done a better analysis.. here ( http://jontekrony.com/911/nsp.html ).. as for u proof with popular mechanics and the NIST.. all who associate with the bush administration AND where the book was forwarded by McCain, which in fact I've researched both sides of the argument, the de-bunkers only chose certain areas to argue.. The WTC buildings were the first in skyscraper history to EVER be brought down by fire.. not to mention WTC 7 falling in 6.4 seconds.. u must be butt buddies with the cover up crew... next time u make such outlandish arguments make sure u actually put in the sources to back it up!! You de bunkers make me sick by the way all you focus on is disproving the fact that the government didn't work harder to save the lives of 3,000 people, and let four planes wonder the country for the average of 45 minutes each before making their target. and her are people like the makers of this site who only set on proving that the government is right and that nothing could have been done to save the lives of all those innocent people and valiant fire fighters and police officers that risked their lives to save another. LET FREEDOM RING AND GOD BLESS THOSE WHO DIED ON 911 !!!
Why do most of your sources point back to YOU!? You must really think we are that stupid - or you are!
I wanna know the truth. I don't want to believe anyone, I want to know the truth. Fact is, that the US goverment hides something. Why they don't show all the penthagon videos for example?
When decisions get hard you need to clear away the detritus and look at the problem with a bare bones perspective. This is what I come up with as a member of a Law Enforcement agency & lifelong NYC resident.
1. Does ANYONE in here ACTUALLY believe that the UNITED STATES GOVERMENT always tells the truth to it's citizens. To that I have only two names I wish to render, Nixon, Clinton, TWO U.S. presidents who have lied to Americans right in your own home through your television.
2. Forget HOW the Towers came down & WHAT went into the Pentagon, as well as WHEN we knew WHO the hijackers were & if there was an INSIDE connection. You have to look at the MOTIVE for what was going to happen.
3. MOTIVE...How much would you say the 5 boroughs of NEW YORK CITY would be in dollar value if you were to try to purchase it.. as INSANE as that would sound, hmmm? Manhattan ALONE would surely be into the TRILLIONS. This is FACT.
4. The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA has "annexed" through a military enhanced form of eminent domain, a whole COUNTRY roughly about TWICE THE SIZE OF IDAHO with an added bonus of what is UNDERNEATH it's soil...THE PRODUCTION 3.5 MILLION BARRELS OF OIL A DAY, B/D. at a bargain price of a Trillion U.S. Dollars.
5. The added bonus questions: Where were those WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION that there was an hour and a half speech about? And why in the HELL hasn't a country that has billions of dollars floating in space in the form of Intelligence Community satellites, been able to find ONE MAN named OSAMA?
Here we sit pondering who, what, when, why, and, how regarding 9/11/01 FACTS when OUR LEADERS have lied to us IN OUR FACES, and WE somehow expect the TRUTH to be revealed in some 9/11 commission report headed by members of OUR GOVERNMENT?
It would be like asking Eva Braun to head an investigation into Hitler's war crimes.
Let's put it into perspective people, THEY ARE STILL UNCLEAR TO THIS DAY AS TO HOW KENNEDY WAS ASSASSINATED, but we all know the MOTIVE... today Don't we?
OH yeah I forgot to add something, I believe its a FUN FACTOID.
GASOLINE:
When Bush took office $1.46
Today $4.00
Another fun fact, YOU owe CHINA $4,000 Dollars.
Have a Nice Day = ) !
you guys really are unfounded ass clowns.
ref: http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/05/top-lies-and-deceptions-of-loose.html#c114857290038786826
(comment by nick)
hey mate, ever studied engeneering? guess thermodynamics, statics and materials science are unknown fields for ya.
pencake theory would leave core columns intact, steel wont melt or weaken by gasoline fire. try it out urself, take a lighter and fill your closed hand with gas. after lighting it up.. *poff* it didnt even hurt. most fuel just exploded outside the building. that there are no huge and intense fires inside can be seen by the color of the smoke. can any1 translate "Schwelbrand" for me *g*.
the huge wholes in the structure.. this building was designed to get hit by a plane.. and even if this design should fail for any reason, the upper part of the towers would fall down to the side, the way of lowest resistance. the direct fall straight down would be slowed down and after a short time stop (if the material below is not removed/the structure not damaged by explosives just in time).
guys like u are the real horror for science. sure, the sun rotates around the earth, i see it every day -.-
most "conspiracy theories" are dumb, bad investigated and so on, but ignoring the rules of physics wont help to find the truth.
one more thought about all this stuff.. everyone who stood up against the offical explanation was denunciated. hurray america, THIS is the way to freedom and democracy! [uh, better not using sarcasm, he will take it for granted)
greetz from abroad
losah
I just wanted to say the guy who made the loose change film is a twat.
I have to comment on point #2 of this rebuttal.
These sources are saying that there was nothing unusual about the put options on the airlines on this day.
The problem is.. it included not only the 2 airlines involved in 911 but also a very large law firm that existed in the World Trade Towers covering 3 or 4 floors.
There were extraordinary put options placed on all 3 firms that day.
Oops.. seems you forgot that point.
Charles Burlingame was in an earlier exercise simulating crashing a 757 into a building in 1989, not 2000. The video doesn't claim it was the 2000 simulation he participated in.
Like a lot of us I don't know what to think. But for me the deal breaker is building seven. I don't understand that at all. Why did BBC report that it had collapsed before it did? Why and how was it demolished so quickly by men dressed like firemen? Is expert demolition part of a fireman's training? Maybe it was a bona fide terrorist attack. Maybe the people who hijacked the planes were manipulated into believing that they were acting for a just cause (perhaps they were poor men who were offered money to aid their families, like many of the suicide bombers in Iraq nowadays) but there are other forces at work here. Forces that demolish building seven, forces that organise press releases for the worlds major media outlets, and forces that maybe possible ensured that the towers would collapse by planting explosives throughout both buildings. I don't know but anyone who thinks we know the full story is misled. George Bush was standing on the rubble where his own citizens had lost there lives and he was smiling and laughing about a war of revenge. To me that, and the treatment of rescue workers since 9/11, shows him and his government in an extremely bad light (the word evil might well be used). Like I said I don't know, I'm confused by the whole thing and I shudder when I think how seemingly easy it is for the rich to continue living without "penalty and repentance".
As for loose change, sure its not a work strong enough to survive academic scrutiny but at least its turning people on to the possibility that there is an alternative version of events other than the one advocated by most governments. A book worth reading is Leo Bernstein's Propaganda. He is the man who invented the phrase public relations after the Nazi's soiled the word propaganda. In it he describes some of the stunts which he orchestrated in order to change public opinion. Things that seem impossible to organise or create could well have their beginnings with PR puppeteer.
The link for statement 10 is dead. Please correct it. Thank you for maintaining this important site.
I was living in New York on September 11th 2001. I worked just a few blocks from the towers. The importance of Loose Change is that it raises questions. Simple questions which so many years later of not been answered and are certainly not answered here. For the person who things the discussion about this is all abunch of people enjoying the chaos. I believe it is people who genuinely do not want to see the same thing happen again. In order to do that we must understand exactly what happened and hold the right people accountable. When I saw 6 CAT diggers driving down the West Side Highway (16/9/01) to ground zero I knew something was wrong. Why were they using diggers to remove all the debris/evidence. Normal protocol is to pick up every last piece and transport it to a bunker somewhere for detailed analysis which can take years.
We have to keep asking the questions. We cannot let those few with money and power control the world without accountability.
i agree with you, loose change is full of bullshit, and so are the conspyracy theories about 9-11, and it hink those theories are an offense to the families of the victims. When i saw 'loose change' there was an specific part where i was really disgusted; when they talked about the calls in flight 93... those were last minute calls of brave people and they mock them with stupid theories... i mean if u want to believe a bunch of idiots on the internet that believe themselves some kind of experts of physics economy and security just because they read some articles on wikipedia, go ahead. instead i preffer to believe what world known scientists and experts say, and fcuk its not the governemt words on scientist mouths you jerks... if so scientist would be always telling us that evolution didnt existed and that we all were made in one day by 'the god we trust in', but thats a different topic.. anyway, scientists are rational people, they arent peoplee with anything better to do than create false theoryes
i mean, its healthy to be sceptical, but this is just paranoia. Doccumentares like this are the worst kind anf leave the doccumentary genre down on the floor... anybody can make a bunch of idiots to believe in anything with this... i can make a fcuking doccumentary about big foot, put on some crappy footage, interview with some stoned witness and info from wikipedia and everybody would believe it....
Please, be rational, dont be retards
After reading as mush as i could before wanting to slit my wrists, all i can seem to understand is that SLC seems to say LC's claims are wronmg by simply saying theyre false or by quoting someone else saying LC's claims are false... basically and argument going back and forth calling each other liars... wheres the smoking gun ??? no where to be found.....
For example, where are the pictures of bigger wreckage at the pentagon ??? im not a 100% behind a conspiracy but i'd have to be a fool to just accept what someone (the gov't) says to be the truth. even in the film a widow of a man who died in a tower, says it must have been bin laden because thats what bush said... come on, so if bush said 2 chinese midgets and blind woman masterminded the whole thing, it must be true.... THINK THINK.... if you cant think for yourself then you deserve to have lies shoved down your throat... the real truth is simple, THE POWERFUL WRITE HISTORY, and the weak watch history PERIOD
ROFL at all the stupid fucks in the world that believe this bullshit story and its bullshit makers. Call me ignorant? Take a moment to consider what you have come to worship as the truth of 9/11. Just take a moment to think about what you are actually buying into. Who's ignorant now? It's possible to put together a puzzle simply by molding and manipulating each piece so that it fits with the others, which is exactly what Loose Crap did. Fail for being stupid, I guess flipping burgers all day makes one senseless enough to believe this obvious Bull. I giggle every time I think about just how much better I am than all the conspiracy pushing dipshits out there.
Fuck Dylan Avery, who probably got a good laugh out of creating this cult of morons so easily.
As a non American I might be a bit less bias. If LC is wrong or not it doesn't matter. The point is the US government needs to answer some questions and show some proof.
*Just 1 video of the pentagon crash out of the 60
* Building 7 was not hit by a plane but fell in on its self. allot of you seem to be happy with the theory of 1 & 2 towers but never mention 3?
the list goes on...
allot of people seem to be happy with half the story being correct, I personally would like the whole truth, not the parts the government wants to us to see.
LC would not have never been made if the American people were given a believable and full story in the 1st place.
6. Claim: The official explanation for flight 77 at the Pentagon is that the intense heat from the jet fuel vaporized the entire plane.
are u serious, where's the engine's than? , if u look closely after the attack on the pentagon there's no evidence of any impact damage of a plane watch in plain site, there's full intact computers where the wall collapsed and the whole in the building, how is that possible if something that sopposably vaporized the entire plane but left a book on a stool in complete tact and other items non damaged. seriously its people like you that are helping this age old lie be never recognised.
the first step is denial. keep an eye out for march 27th 2009. maybe you'll change that ignorant mind of yours.
I still haven't heard any good evidence against controlled demolition. Anywhere. Just watch the videos with an open mind.....buildings don't fall at free fall speed on their own. What about the hispanic worker....rodriguez or something and other personnel that were in the basement levels of the buildings when a huge explosion came from beneath them....sending them sprawling.....then (by his account) another explosion from above (which would be the plane hitting). I've heard expert accounts stating that to accomplish a controlled demolition of this building one would require getting at the base of the steel collumn structure. When you look at the aftermath where the buildings once stood....the steel beams that are left jutting out are cut in a nice straight 45 degree angle.....how does a steel beam break off on its own like that? In controlled demolitions. No person on here that believes the towers fell from a plane crash has given any good explination for that shit. The people who built the world trade towers built them so that they could withstand multiple plane crashes for fuck sake. (and the government had the gall to say no one had ever dreamed of an attack like this before...pffft)
For the people on here who think that the government wouldn't do such a thing....or that if they were to do a conspiricy that it would have been airtight...blah blah blah......it is not the government that is doing this to us....there are a few that have their talons of CONTROL into every facet of the world (even though the internet and blogs like this where people can express free speech are helping to soften their grip) they move the markets....fund both sides of wars....own and control the mainstream media.....push the very "agenda" of the whole world towards more and more power and control into their hands.(eg. Buildeberg group) Look at Africa...Bosnia...the holocost.....these people do not care about us and live off our hard work...inspiration....and love for each other to suit their grandoise and perverted wants. I mean...they own our money!!!! The Federal Reserve is privately owned. they print money as debt and that my friends are how we are inslaved. Money doesn't exist without debt...gotta keep slavin away to pay that morgage...car loan....credit card loan.....work for 40 years towards in the end really nothing when it comes down to it...then live off measly pensions as you waste away. But feel good about yourself...you were a good little slave....kept your head down and did what had to be done to live in this world.(which is complete bullshit...we should not have to sacrifice anything to have happiness or the basic human needs in life.)
We have to cast off these self imposed chains and realize that what we are. Free beings to do and choose the life we wish....not to be dictated by others how we view the world. I will be forever grateful for films like loose change and all the others....that have the balls to stand up and question..give a different view...which is everyones right. LC and others like it have driven me to open my eyes and see a bit more to what we call "reality" and see how much of a game this life really is.
There is much more to this story....and I implore all, even the people who don't believe as I, to keep searching for those answers you are seeking....for we are all seeking....and that is what this life is about....not money and things and control.
Once we wake up and realize the truth these "elite controllers" and negative events will melt away.
What is the truth??
There is no spoon.
What an interesting read! I'm so glad I found this blog and I want to honestly thank you for giving Loose Change even more attention with this discussion. Let's all hope the real truth gets out!
Even though I believe most conspiracy 'theory' debunkers are not aware of the fact that we can do something about our enslavement (heck, some are not even aware of the fact that we ARE enslaved), they DO help to get the truth out! THANKS and keep up the good work!!
Hmmk Lets get this comment underway. First off any site that cannot host a debate about a conspiracy, or and event that has transpired with an open mind needs to get backhanded. Seriously Screw Lc You guys don't have anything halfway decent in terms of debunking ANY of the obvious facts man of my co-9/11 truth seekers has brought into the open. And for any person claiming that the wieght of the towers causing them to collaspe needs to get a proper education. 1. Any amount of (Heat, gravity, and or extreme pressure can cause certian anomalies to happen. But not the collaspe of over a 1000ft of concrete, steel, and other materials that were built to withstand extreme conditions. And as for steel being able to "buckle" at the tempature of burning jet fuel. I'm sorry but there are several cases of entire buildings burning to a shell of their former selves and guess what the steel is still there after countless hours of burning. And Alexandro... Insulting people because you don't agree with their views doesn't make yours correct. ...Stupid ass closetcase mindfucks get an education then look at the FACTS. And if anyone doesnt gets that last bit, a fact is something that has been proven to be true no matter who's perspective is used to look at it. Like the whole freefall event of the buildings...IMPOSSIBLE unless through a controled demolition. GG K THX BAI.
Arguing that 9/11 wasn't a conspiracy by using the 9/11 Commission is like arguing to a stubborn atheist that God exists by using the Bible as a source.
wow this is retarded. i like how all of your "sources" are just more pages written by you, the biased author.
I see that you quote yourself and Popular Mechanics...
Most of the crap you disprove was created by you spooks in the first place.
To all who are new to this attack site, I advise you to move on before you're brainwashed back into stupidity.
They support Popular Mechanics, and all those who believe no aircraft were used on 911.
These people wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the movie loose change. They weren't out informing others that governments use false flag terror for political gain. SLC has been disproved so many times, they've had to take on the image that they're telling us the real truth and the LC guys are jews responsible for 911.
You will know them by their fruits, and Screw Loose Changes' fruit is rotten to the core.
This has to be the weakest rebuttal of Loose Change I have ever seen. When there are citations, please read them, even the citations rebut the rebuttal. This article is hilarious.
claim number one, all you are saying is that he was still in the navy, so instead of being ex-navy as they said he was still in the navy. Wow that doesnt say anything. claim two was just another reason, they arent saying that there were more put-options than normal, just that it is a small reason for the faking of 9/11. claim three, we all know it was a standard plane, that was just to show that what people saw was not all the same. Claim 4, yeah..so they did think it was a military plane. Claim 5, the light poles were all intact, or almost all. claim 6, they found small pieces, no big pieces like a normal plane crash would have made. Claim 7, the SPOKESPERSON got his information from engineers, he doesnt need to be one himself. Claim 9, how does a tent aid crash response? Claim 10, what is funny is that NIST and im sure those other organizations are tied to the government and make fake studies to help the cover up. It can be seen in Loose change -- the Final Cut. So everything you said is dumb.
It saddens me that there as so many stupid oblivious people out there that believe this conspiracy.
Well, Screwwy LC people, your very first source, and I've only just now started checking your supposed debunking, well, you said Burlingame retired in 1996, but, your own source said differently. Obviously, it was written a couple years after 9-11-01.
Here it is:
On a beautiful morning two years ago, Charles "Chic" Burlingame III was the pilot of American Airlines Flight 77 when it was hijacked and flown into the Pentagon. The crash killed 125 people at the Pentagon and all 59 passengers and crew members on the flight, including Burlingame, 51, a resident of Fairfax County
You seem to have some points but it also appears to me that you don't care about the LACK of airplane at the Pentagon.
It's plain to see that whoever runs this site is working with the government. I assure you the New World Order puts sites like this together to confuse or divert attetion away from what actually happen that day and is still going on.
All you have to do is look at how the towers came down and how fast they came down. Freefall 9 secs. Then trade center 7 falls 5 hours after the towers at freefall speed.
Refuse the chip and don't buy in to the North American Union. Fight for the closing of the Federal Reserve bank which is "The Central Bank" and is the reason why all this is happening.
If we are to remain America then we must fight the terrorists which is the government. Look at the headlines as they stat that public option does not matter to them.
We must stand up and become freedom fighters for our own nation that our Father's fathers fought so hard and died for.
WE THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE.
It's plain to see that whoever runs this site is working with the government. I assure you the New World Order puts sites like this together to confuse or divert attetion away from what actually happen that day and is still going on.
All you have to do is look at how the towers came down and how fast they came down. Freefall 9 secs. Then trade center 7 falls 5 hours after the towers at freefall speed.
Refuse the chip and don't buy in to the North American Union. Fight for the closing of the Federal Reserve bank which is "The Central Bank" and is the reason why all this is happening.
If we are to remain America then we must fight the terrorists which is the government. Look at the headlines as they stat that public option does not matter to them.
We must stand up and become freedom fighters for our own nation that our Father's fathers fought so hard and died for.
WE THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE.
Loose Change may have some errors in their research however they bring far more very valid points to bear on the events of that day.
The main one being where was the military defense system that normally would have been up the ass of an off course jetliner especially one that was heading toward the Pentagon. Lets see shoot down a plane kill 200 plus people or just let it fly into a building and kill 4000 hhhhmmm lets think about this for a minute. We all know this is how 9/11 should have ended if the Government had any balls or OOOOPS they were not involved.
If any of you are still in doubt google "Madrid Tower Fire" see the carnage a real Towering inferno creates and oh by the way the frame of the building remained solid enough to mount a construction crane on for the rebuild process.
I suggest the creators of this site just get on board and have it link to "Loose Change" because the events of 9/11 were no more than fear tactics of a Government wanting to control it masses and push it's own agenda which we are still fighting today.
Regards Rob
http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/project/research/structures/strucfire/CaseStudy/HistoricFires/BuildingFires/default.htm
http://www.infowars.com/articles/world/madrid_towering_inferno.htm
The above are links to "Madrid Tower Fire" and if any of you ended up here before seeing what loose change is all about follow this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yx9NRX37SM
Or just google "Loose Change" the second edition is my personal favorite.
Rob in Canada yes we feel your pain
People keep asking for some scientific discussion about how the buildings could have collapsed from the plane impact only, vs. detonation.
Here is something from the Journal of Metallurgy. MIT Engineers talking:
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/eagar-0112.html
I love this quote. Since we're all trying to be scientists:
"
As scientists and engineers, we must not succumb to speculative thinking when a tragedy such as this occurs. Quantitative reasoning can help sort fact from fiction, and can help us learn from this unfortunate disaster. As Lord Kelvin said,
“I often say . . . that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts, advanced to the stage of science, whatever the matter may be.”
:)
Some Canada No Prescription haves programs to keep your change safe if you buy some of their products.
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The most interesting of these for me (10. Claim: The damage to the Pentagon was completely inconsistent with a Boeing 757) has a broken source link. Do you have the original source for your counter-claim?
What about the obvious? Lets see, first responders are dead or dying. None of the hijackers were from Iraq, Afghanistan, now Yemen or Iran. The air was safe to breathe. No mention of Building 7. fire fighters and police comments on explosion prior to and after the initial attack. Building 7 collapsing as per the BBC, CNN, Fox's reports.
so hows it a lie when they say the air traffic controller thought the plane was a military plane?
when your supposed "truth"
simply states exactly that.
"The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, ALL OF US EXPERIENCED AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS, that that was a MILITARY plane"
and how did such an amateur pilot pull off such a maneuver in the first place?
if your so confident the government is telling the truth about anything, why do you delete so many peoples posts or even have this website in the first place?
I'd believe any conspiracy site over the Washington Post. Nice "sources". Even if Loose Change was 100% fabricated,which it is not, it at least gets people to think. Now fuck off and go back to sucking Google's Dick. And as other people here have already mentioned you do not answer any questions rather you make baseless arguments like well they said 19 eighty whatever but it was really 1979? This is your idea of debunking? You people are Zionist peices of Shit. You won't get your New World Order guys.
thank you 'screw loose change' for bringing this whole remarkable and terrible conspiracy to my attention. i never really give it a second thought to believe anything but the 'official' line of events. now having watched 'loose change' i'm in no doubt whatsoever that 911 was an inside job. again, thanks for bringing 'loose change' to my attention.
THIS WEBSITE IS BULLSHIT. WAKE THE FUCK UP
Thank God I found this site. I've been searching the web about 9/11 reading all these stories but finally one that makes sense to me.
You conveniently use what you want like you have some advantage but you manipulate the truth to suit you. You damage any credibility you think you have by putting "facts" and "sources" but you haven't debunked anything. Fact when you said the pilot who wasn't able to have been there at the pentagon to conduct the simulations cause he was out in 1996. Fact he was still working for the government at the time as a "consultant". His expertise was documented in many training manuals. morons do so more research before you claim you have the facts and continue to lie to the general public spreading disinformation and claiming it as credible.
You have to be one naive, ignorant cretin to be taken in by everything that Loose Change claims. A modicum of secondary research on the internet shows the rest of their claims for what they are: bunk.
Regarding the last lie how can we trust NIST when they are the very people at the centerof the conspiracy, Youre answering a conspiracy question with the conspiracist. Not much sense
Look for a motive! OSAMA HAS no motive what he really wanted to be hunted by every person in the USA for 10 years ! he gained nothing from the 911 attack except he was now the most hated person in the world !!!??? what kind of motive is that think of the US motive and what they have gain from this event its is simple stop think so far into it! the usa gains OIL, POWER over its entire population, Opium feilds, war $ ! now if those are not motvies then i dont what what motives are !
loose change is the truth, as well as tupac is alive, illuminati and free masons want to take over the world, crystal skulls can save the world in 2012, 2012 prophecies are real,rods are real, aliens are real, jersey devil is real, Bigfoot/Sasquatch is real, all conspiracy theories are real
Wow I am so pleased we have real smart guys out there that can get to the bottom of these really hard things to understand. I would have liked to have seen a little more analysis perhaps even some mathematical proofs that the physics of Freefall or Newtons first law of motion doesn't apply to Office buildings which have aircraft hijacked by Moslem Terrorists flown into them. But I guess this guy is really busy writing on all the blogs that make preposterous claims on all manner of other things like Economic cycles are a purely Natural phenomena over which the Banks have no control and that mass advertising for everything including our political choices is in no way tainted by any sort of exaggeration and the playing field is completely level before God. The climate Change Flat Earther denialist scum bags they really get me too so I am sure we will find this scourge of the purveyors of denialism very busy in those areas too, Flouride in Water Thalidomide Nuclear Power Stations they are an industry that have thought of everything their safe and really should be completely unregulated and there no point on checking up on them either, BP and Shell are really cool too ask anyone living in the Gulf of mexico, but we shouldn't ever trust Russians and Japanese for obvious reasons. Right now we consider it wow this guys really busy I'm not suprised the 9/11 thing really makes him angry because lets think what else is there's . Palestine, The Kurds, Bhopal, more famines than you can shake an M16 at, Oklahoma, Columbine, Wako, Dr David Kelly anyone remember the Iraqi Super Gun of and WMD's what a bunch of fantasists they were ( Oh wait was that Us I'm not quite sure still the Great Leader can help us with that too I'm sure. Some people obviously just are so off message, just not buying into the Narrative they cant stay on the same page and see the truth in the statistics.
No pictures of Bin Laden absolutely right but of course people are still saying that The great Leader Mr Obama was perhaps to timid in absolutely not allowing any propaganda to reflect so badly on the otherwise wonderful work taking 10 years to track down the most wanted man in History what we have seen is that the task was quite the needle in the Hay Stack wasn't it Sheesh some guys just don't get it do they.
Well lets all be gratefull for the warriors for truth and free speech able to provide the kind of in depth balanced and thoughtfull analysis that we have grown to expect and admire in our Free Press why the hell we don't all just stick to the professionally produced and properly financed Internet Franchises with a serious Narrative and on message branding we can all only wonder but the screw loose change Blogspot is there for all of us a beacon of balance and reason shining a light of hope and truth and belief and knowledge into the lives of people who would take their I pod out of their ears turn off the latest Justin Bieber or pop idol masterpiece ignore the wisdom of the Panel of Experts and listen to some one offering their own ideas how could they possibly be sincere professional and even take themselves remotely seriously have they been published this Grub street nonsense really must stop. Get me out of this celebrity Jungle idol I know where I can get my truth like all good Mushrooms I'm remaining firmly in the Dark remaining deeply gratefull for the shit they so graciously and condescendingly feed me.
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