Dr. Jones and the Nazis

No, this isn't about the fourth Indiana Jones movie, but I recently sent a list of questions from reader "Sword of Truth", which he posed in a previous post, to Steven Jones, and finally got a response. SoT, has posted the exchanges up on JREF, if you want to read the whole thing, and a continued discussion of the issue.

Here is Jones' response (Jones' part is italicized):

Dr. Jones: [OK, I added that part]

Were you aware that Rick Rajter was a Holocaust denier when you endorsed his 911myths rebuttal, specifically his analysis of jewish businesman, Larry Silverstiens finances?

NO. Indeed, what evidence do you have that Rick is a Holocaust denier? Because of this charge, I am cc'ing this to Rick to see what he has to say about it.

Were you aware at the time of your interview by Christopher Bollyn that he himself is a Holocaust denier and that the publication he worked for is a neo-nazi newspaper?

No. I will BCC Christopher also to see if he agrees with your allegations -- since you have offered no substantiation.

Were you aware when you agreed to appear at the recent "9-11 Accountability" conference, that its chief organizer at the time, Eric D. Williams, is a Holocaust denier?

No, absolutely not.

Were you aware at any time prior to your own appearance at the conference, that the reason Alex Jones and the makers of "Loose Change" withdrew from it, was due to Mr. Williams ties to neo-naziism?

No -- further, this charge of neo-naziism with respect to Eric Williams is unsubstantiated and I don't believe it is true. I had heard the allegation that Eric was a "holocaust denier" -- at the press conference as I recall-- but Eric said this was not true. Pls send Mr. Williams' email address or other contact information so we can ask him what he says about your allegations.

If the answer to any or all of the above questions is "yes", how do you, as a Latter-Day Saint, especially given the tragic early history of our own faith, reconcile your association with these people with the 11th Article of Faith and President Hinckleys recent conference addresses on racism?

All answers were No, above. Also, I am not a racist and I support Pres. Hinckley's statement -- April 2006 conference as I recall.

Do you believe that someone who feels compelled to lie about the Holocaust out of his own hatred for jews can be trusted to come up with an unbiased assessment of wether a jewish person is guilty of major felonies?

No.

Do you trust people who lie about crimes committed out of religious bigotry in europe 70 years ago to never lie about similar crimes committed in Missourri and Illinois 170 years ago?

No, but I don't know of any such people who lie about both of these topics -- do you? And can you substantiate your allegations?As I wrote in a recently-completed paper (not yet published):

. Let us be active and proactive – we can reduce our dependence on the globalized system, get out of debt and put reserves into local credit unions. We can reduce or end credit-card consumerism and build home reserves of food, cash and water. We need to look to our inner values; instead of fearing terrorists (foreign and domestic). We can build cooperation, sharing, and caring as we build the local infrastructure in our communities. We can rally around the Constitution in the United States, and the Geneva Conventions, and other standards of civility and human liberty throughout the world. I advocate only peaceful methods and a respect for all religious and ethnic groups, including Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus and all others.

I am confident that by working together and seeking the facts with determination, we will succeed in finding the truth about 9/11. If we act before the next series of restrictions on our liberties, we should be able to achieve justice and peace as well. Those are great goals. [See: http://journalof911studies.com/letters/c/what-are-the-goals-of-the-911-community-by-steven-jones.pdf]

I ask that you post my answers above IN FULL wherever the questions were posed, and that you disclose your actual name if it is not Hinman. James, you may also post my answers if you would.

Please inform me as soon as my answers have been posted, and where they are posted.

Thank you,

Steven J

Now out of all the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, Steven Jones is probably the most likeable one, he seems like the nice quiet elderly gentleman living next door tending his flowers, so I take his answers at face value. I don't believe he is a racist, but at the same time he seems pretty clueless regarding just about everything, and not aware of what is going on around him. In another e-mail regarding my original questions, Jones stated that he wasn't even famliar with Judy Wood having criticized the standards of his Journal, despite the fact this was mentioned in a Morgan Reynold's attacking Jones.

We have covered the Christopher Bollyn and AFP thing so many times, that I am not going to rehash it. Obviously Jones has never bothered to research his sources, and I invite him to do a search of this site on those topics. Eric Williams denying that he is a "Holocaust denier" is no surprise. Nobody indentifies themselves using that term. They always state that they just have "questions". As I have discussed before, Holocaust denial is not about serious academic research into the history of the Second World War, it is about biased anti-Semitic research, which turns a couple of rumors started by liars and wackoes, and tries to minimize the Holocaust, from an intentional plan to exterminate an ethic group, down to just another unfortunate event in war. Here is another question for Dr. Jones. In his "book",
"The Puzzle of Auschwitz" Eric Williams refers to the Auschwitz concentration camp as "an open and caring place". If Holocaust denier is not the proper term, than what term would you suggest for people who expouse such views?

Bollyn and Rajter responded almost immediately when Jones e-mailed them, but they didn't really help their case. You can find the entire texts of their responses at the aforementioned JREF link. Both of them immediately went into typical Holocaust denier mode, spinning the subject by going on about other horrific events that occured during WWII. Bollyn went off about the firebombing of Dresden:

I am not an expert on the history of World War II, but I have visited several important sites of the war. For example I spent one month in Dresden in February-March 2004, where I lived at a small hotel on the grounds of Slaughterhouse 5. Dresden is known for being the city that was incinerated on February 13-14, 1945. I have met with several eyewitnesses to this holocaust in which an estimated 600,000 people perished in a fireball that melted the streets and boiled the water in the river Elbe. The Anglo-American fire-bombing of Dresden was truly a holocaust - a human sacrifice in fire of immense proportions.

Nick Terry, in the JREF comments, points out that this number of 600,000 is exaggerated well beyond the normal Holocaust denier claims. The actual death toll is more around 35,000.

Bollyn does not exaggerate the death toll of the camps though. On the other hand:

Having visited several of these former camps at Auschwitz, Dachau, and Buchenwald, all I can say is that I have not seen any evidence of these large ovens in which Jewish prisoners are said to have been burned. I did visit the crematoria at all three camps and saw that they comprised 6 single-body cremation ovens. It has been many years since I visited Dachau so my recollection of the crematoria there is not as clear as the other two camps.

Having visited Dachau just a few years ago, I must point out that Dachu was just a standard work camp, not an extermination camp like Auschwitz. Even so a horrific number of people died there.

Rick Rajter, who quite angrily attacks me, even though I didn't say anything about him, I made it quite clear it was someone else's question, writes:

Regarding the "holocaust denier" charge. Just like 9/11, most of the official holocaust lore is propaganda. That doesn't mean all of it was a lie, certainly. Just as Bollyn so eloquently stated. There were camps and people did die, and I'm sure the conditions were not easy... just like the Russian Gulags where millions of people died. But the whole gas chamber business and 6 million numbers have also been refuted by scientists (for example, Leuchter and Rudolph) and other expert witnesses. So since they can't prove it, why should I take their word for it? After all, science trumps emotion. But I guess I should be slandered as a "9/11 Denier" too. And no. Just because I hold these conclusions does not mean I "hate jews" and all the crap. That's just emotional ad hominem intended to distract from the debate and onto such things as "oh how horrible could this person be"

Of course one of the first signs that you are a Holocaust denier is to cite the research of "scientists" like Leuchter, who was a complete fraud who is a favorite reference of those like Willis Carto's Institute for Historical Review. I assume the "Rudolph" he is referring to is in fact Germar Rudolf, who as been convicted in Germany for... you guessed it... Holocaust denial.

I am curious as to Whether Dr. Jones will actually look into any of this, and to hear his response.

Holocaust Denier Hosting 9-11 Accountability Conference!

(Welcome Little Green Footballs, Hot Air, Solomonia, Damien Penny Dodgeblogium and Blogmeister USA readers)

Okay, it's finally time to take the wraps off this story, which is so big that it's being broken not only on Screw Loose Change, but at the New Times, a Phoenix arts and entertainment weekly that does the best investigative journalism in the State of Arizona.

The Deniers are holding a 9-11 Accountability Conference in Chandler, Arizona from February 23-25. Many of the biggest names in 9-11 crackpottery will be speaking at the conference, including Steven Jones, Kevin Barrett, the Loosers, Sofia of 9-11 Mysteries, Alex Jones, Robert Bowman, Webster Tarpley, and Dave Von Kleist. About the only Deniers who won't have a platform are the no-planers and Star Wars Beam weapons crew, like Judy Wood, Morgan Reynolds and Uncle Fetzer. The head of the local chapter of the ACLU, Alessandra Soler Meetze, is supposed to be on a panel with Barbara Honnegger; I don't envy her that honor.

Scores of lesser 9-11 Denier lights are also supposed to appear, including Luke Rudkowski, Les Jamieson, Jim Marrs and Jack Blood. Phoenix talk radio personality Charles Goyette, who sandbagged the Popular Mechanics guy on his show will also be in attendance.

And they're all going to look like buffoons, because they didn't check out the guy who's heading up the conference. The Conference Director is Eric D. Williams. And Mr Williams is, to put it mildly, a rather interesting gentleman.

He's written a couple of 9-11 Denial tracts (calling them books would be an exaggeration. He also recently completed a work of Holocaust Denial that is staggeringly awful. (Scroll down to The Puzzle of Auschwitz).

Note that he has recently added a "disclaimer" about his book, knowing that his Holocaust Revisionism was going to be highlighted in the New Times article:

Disclaimer about my The Puzzle of Auschwitz book:

Holocaust >noun 1. destruction or slaughter on a mass scale. 2. (the Holocaust) the mass murder of Jews under the German Nazi regime in World War II.

Deny >verb (denies, denied) 1. refuse to admit the truth or existence of. 2. refuse to give (something requested or desired) to.

First, and foremost, it is all well known fact that the numbers of the 6 million Jews said have been killed in Concentration Camps have come down to around 1 million. Does that make the people who have presented these numbers a Holocaust denier? NO. I agree that something horrible happened to many people in WWII, but not only to the Jews. But after my own visit to Auschwitz and my own research, how these people died must be questioned.

That is what this book is for. An open investigation into what did and what did not happen behind the doors of Germany’s Concentration Camps.

Let me also state, that I am not a holocaust denier. Again, I simply feel that there are serious questions that need to be addressed about what did and what didn't happen in the Concentration Camps.

If we accept that we have not been told the truth about 9/11, why do we only stop questioning the official story of 9/11? Days after the events of September 11, 2001, I have questioned everything, including the Holocaust. By questioning the official story of 9/11 does that make me a 9/11 denier? Of course not.

Actually it does, Eric. We call you kooks 9-11 Deniers all the time around here. Is Williams a Holocaust Denier? Well Nizkor.org, which keeps tabs on these kooks has a simple way to tell. They note that there are three main elements to the Holocaust:

the Number: the murder of six million Jews
the Plan: as a central act of state by the Nazis during the Second World War,
the Method: many in gas chambers.

It is not hard to see that Williams denies the number:

First, and foremost, it is all well known fact that the numbers of the 6 million Jews said have been killed in Concentration Camps have come down to around 1 million.

And in his book (which he has made available for free at his website) he also denies the plan and the method. That makes him three for three in the Holocaust Denier checklist.

Be sure to read the The Bird's article as well (the section on the 9-11 Accountability Conference starts about halfway down the page. Steve did an excellent job on this story.

Williams supports his Shoah-shirking claims by attacking and twisting accounts of survivors and legitimate historians, and by citing such discredited sources as the Institute for Historical Review and Fred A. Leuchter, Jr., a hero to neo-Nazis worldwide. Leuchter's shoddily produced "Leuchter Report" rejecting the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz is thoroughly trashed in Errol Morris' acclaimed documentary Mr. Death: The Rise and Fall of Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. Interestingly, when this tweeter caught up with Williams via phone, he said he was unaware of both the well-known Morris doc and subsequent scientific tests refuting Leuchter's findings about the use of the poison Zyklon-B at the camp. He also seemed strangely confused when confronted with the fact that he was essentially parroting what many neo-Nazis hold to be self-evident.

Note: The point here is not that some idiot Holocaust Denier is holding a conference. The point is that so many other people who imagine themselves to standing up for the "Truth" would care to be associated with such a character.

Update: Hot Air has the video of the Paula Zahn segment dealing with the convergence of 9-11 Denial and anti-Semitism. Great timing!

In Which I Agree With Dylan

Dylan posted on this over at the Looser Forum. Dan Wallace, a young (23) NYC Truther, apparently died in his bed a week or so ago. His father was FDNY and lost his life in the WTC rescue operation, so his family has been devastated twice in only a few years, and our sympathy goes out to them.

Now I don't know the cause of Dan's death, but Dylan and others who knew the young man are convinced that it was not foul play and in this instance I'll take their word for it. However, this does not stop Holocaust Denier Eric Hufschmid from using the tragedy for his own purposes:

Considering those particular "truth seekers" lie about Zionism, why should we believe their explanation for his death?

We would be fools not to consider that this was a murder by Zionists.

If it was a murder, it shows what happens when you are too stupid to know who to trust.

Back to Dylan:

Eric Hufschmid should be completely extricated from the 9/11 Movement, and his cohort Daryl Bradford Smith should join him. This is the absolute lowest thing I believe I could ever see.

I agree with Dylan on this whole-heartedly.

In typical Hufschmid fashion, Eric rambles all over the place, even getting into the 9-11 Accountability Conference and mentioning me by name:

Is Williams really a "Holocaust Denier"?

The evidence suggests that Williams is a Zionist pretending to be a Holocaust Denier, and that Pat Curley is also a Zionist who is trying to give Williams credibility as a Holocaust Denier.

The other people who complain that Williams is a Holocaust denier are also likely to be Zionists.

Me? A Zionist? How absurd!

By the way, my new PR packet just came back from the photographer. What do you think of my picture?



Update: Rob in the comments points out that Eric Hufschmid himself has been accused of being a Zionist. Oh, the paranoia!

Portland Troof Alliance Invites America-Hating Holocaust Denier to Speak

Why do they always have to make it so easy for us? The Portland "Truth" Alliance is sponsoring a program on the Frankfurt School of Cultural Marxism, which sounds dull as dishwater, so they decided to spice things up with an introductory lecture by Valdas Analauskas. Who?

It turns out that Valdas is a former Soviet and current American dissident, which makes him another one of those Troofers who came to the US so he could criticize it, like Luke Rudkowski, like Gypsy Taub, and several others whose names escape me at the moment. But that turns out to be one of Valdas' better qualities. He dedicated a speech he gave at the University of Oregon in 2006 to Holocaust Denier Germar Rudolf. That speech was sponsored by the Pacifica Forum, which has also hosted the dolts at the Institute for Historical Review. Here's a letter to the editor he wrote just last year:

In his rather hysterical June 20 letter, Bob Bussel decries any questioning of Holocaust history as a "profound act of intellectual fraud and moral bankruptcy," a "loathsome and repugnant REPUGNANT. That which is contrary to something else; a repugnant condition is one contrary to the contract itself; as, if I grant you a house and lot in fee, upon condition that you shall not aliens, the condition is repugnant and void. Bac. Ab. Conditions, L. monstrosity monstrosity

1. great congenital deformity.

2. a monster or teratism. ."

British writer George Orwell Noun 1. George Orwell - imaginative British writer concerned with social justice (1903-1950)
Eric Arthur Blair, Eric Blair, Orwell
..... Click the link for more information. said that "who controls the past, controls the future," and our perception of past events alsoshapes the way we look at the world around us today. The Zionists understand this, and know that the story of the Holocaust is crucial to their power.

This is why such harsh measures are being exacted against those who ask too many questions. The Holocaust history seems so shaky that governments have to actually imprison im·pris·on
tr.v. im·pris·oned, im·pris·on·ing, im·pris·ons
To put in or as if in prison; confine.


[Middle English emprisonen, from Old French emprisoner : en-
..... Click the link for more information. people who openly question it.

Today, it's becoming more like the new state religion and, as in the Inquisition, people are being locked up again for questioning even the smallest detail of dogma - no matter what the evidence, no matter what the conflicting testimony or history. Anyone who breaches this faith will be deemed a "Holocaust denier de·ni·er 1
n.
One that denies: a denier of harsh realities.

denier
Noun ," and punished accordingly.

Therefore, as I see it, the "standard" version of the Holocaust history simply cannot be trusted as long as they're jailing or otherwise punishing those who question it. To make jail sentences be your response to critics is exactly the same as getting up on a rooftop and shouting as loud as you can for all to hear: "I am lying!" Is anyone supposed to believe someone who, in effect, proclaims in this way that he's lying?

VALDAS ANELAUSKAS

Remember, these are the kinds of folks that 9-11 "Truthers" choose to associate themselves with.

Nope, No Holocaust Deniers Here

A 9-11 Denier posts a little screed on how unfair it is that they are associated with Holocaust Deniers. Nothing could be further from the truth, says he:

Thirdly, I’ve never met a single truther that actually denied the Holocaust. Maybe some exist, but I haven’t found running any of the thousands of websites I’ve personally visited in trying to develop my own understanding of the events that took place on 9/11.

Well, let's take a look at the link between Holocaust Denial and 9-11 Denial, shall we? Eric Hufschmid was the first American to publish a book about 9-11 Troof, called Painful Questions, which was released in 2002. Eric might be called the godfather of the American 9-11 Truth Movement. And Eric is a Holocaust Denier.

We are told that the blue stains are proof that human beings were killed in this room by cyanide.

However, photos do not prove that people were killed in the room, or how many people, who which people, or why they were killed. Actually, photos do not prove the blue stains are from cyanide!

Even if the blue stains are from cyanide, there is no evidence that human beings were killed in that room. It may have been a disinfection chamber. Or maybe the room held chemicals, and the blue stains are due to splattering or leaky containers.

Eric Hufschmid's work was cited by David Ray Griffin in the New Pearl Harbor, and by Sofia Shafquat and Brad Waddell in 9-11 Mysteries. We shall return to Sofia later.

What about American Free Press? AFP was the single most-cited source in Loose Change 2nd Edition. From Wikipedia:

The American Free Press (AFP) is a weekly newspaper published in the United States. According to one former correspondent, the AFP's direct ancestor was the neo-nazi publication The Spotlight, which ceased publication in 2001 when its parent company, Liberty Lobby, was forced into bankruptcy.

The Liberty Lobby was founded by Willis Carto, who also founded the Institute for Historical Review.

Founded in 1979 by Liberty Lobby leader Willis Carto, the Institute for Historical Review (IHR) has spearheaded the international movement to deny the reality of the Holocaust. Though it broke with Carto and the Liberty Lobby network in 1993, to its own financial detriment, IHR remains the world's single most important outlet for Holocaust-denial propaganda.

One of the chief writers for American Free Press was Christopher Bollyn, currently a fugitive from justice. Bollyn, when asked about the Holocaust, wrote the following:

As I said, I have not seen at these three former camps any evidence of any large oven in which hundreds of people could be gassed or burned. Nor, have I seen any photographs or physical evidence of such an oven. I don't see how this could make me a denier of anything. One can only deny by refusing to acknowledge something that one has seen the evidence of. I have looked for the evidence of these huge gas chambers and crematoria and not found it in the places they are said to have existed. That does not make me a holocaust denier.

Bollyn's work is cited in several of David Ray Griffin's books, including Debunking 9-11 Debunking. Here's Bollyn collaborating with Professor Steven Jones:



One of the most famous 9-11 "Truthers" is Kevin Barrett, who was the first professor to incorporate 9-11 nuttery into a college-level course on Islam. Barrett wrote an email in which he slipped into Holocaust Denial:

As a rational person who is not a specialist in the subject of WWII, but who has studied the history of Zionist Big Lies vis-a-vis Palestine, I cannot possibly dismiss the arguments of people like Green, Irving, and even Zundel. And even if the 6-million-deliberately-murdered-for-purely-ethnic-reasons figure is correct--which it very well may be; I have grown agnostic on that after studying the Big Lies of Zionism-- I would still have to characterize the Holocaust as it is taught in the US as a hideously destructive myth.

I talked earlier about Sofia Shafquat. Her movie, 9-11 Mysteries: Demolitions, is probably the second biggest hit flick among the Troofers, surpassed only by Loose Change. Sofia's buddy Brad Waddell narrates the beginning to 9-11 Mysteries and cites Eric Hufschmid as the person who turned him into a 9-11 Troofer. Sofia's website is currently marketing the DVD and Book of the Ernst Zundel Story. Ernst Zundel is a major figure in Holocaust Denial.

Note that this is before we talk about relatively minor figures in the 9-11 Troofy Troof Movement, like Eric D. Williams, or Nick Kollerstrom.

Hat Tip: You Might Know Who (in the comments)

Holocaust Deniers and 9-11 Truth

We have talked about this in the past, but there is an interesting overlap between 9-11 Deniers and Holocaust Deniers. Perhaps the classic example of this is Eric Hufschmid, who goes so far as to call Dylan Avery and the Louder Than Words crew "Holocaust Promoters".

In a way, the convergence of 9-11 Denial and Holocaust Denial is not surprising. First, both groups posit vast plots to deceive the people as to a major historical event. Second, many anti-Semites immediately leapt on the idea of the Mossad as being behind the 9-11 attacks, putting them early in the 9-11 Denial Movement. And third, you have an intersection of many people wanting to move the story off 19 Islamofascist hijackers, including Muslims, Neo-Nazis and 9-11 Deniers.

Who Is Rick Rajter?

A particularly interesting 9-11 Denier is Rick Rajter. Rajter is a student member of the "Scholars" for 9-11 Denial. He is cited in a new paper (PDF file, see Page 24) by Professor Stephen Jones, as being in the process of preparing a rebuttal of 9-11 Myths. He has also collaborated with "Scholar" full member Morgan Reynolds on Reynold's website.

Rick is a young man, recently graduated from MIT. He's apparently an athlete as well, as his bio here notes:

Born in raised in a small town in upstate NY, Rick came to MIT as an undergraduat in Materials Science and Engineering in 1999. Though rife with injuries during his undergraduate years, Rick's determination led him to such accomplishments as MVP of the indoor track team, leading season point scorer 3 times and Indoor NE Div III Pentathlon Champion.

(Update: A prior version of this post mentioned two other individuals on Rajter's MIT track team who obviously have nothing to do with his odious views, but were mentioned in his bio. I have removed their names from the post and wish those men nothing but the best.)

Obviously not much of a writer; there are a couple misspellings and some awkward phrasings in that brief paragraph.

But he's also a Holocaust Denier.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad makes a very good point, stating that

“Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail,”

Exactly. European countries are doing everything they can to quickly imprison and silence these revisionists. But why? Why not show them the facts and shut them up? Well, unfortunately the facts are not in their favor. So imprisonment becomes their ‘final’ solution :)

Of course, the media is having a hissy fit with his statements, and the ADL probably shat a brick upon hearing someone question the standard old “6 million died” rhetoric that we’ve been fed for years. Don’t worry, we’ll invade them soon and set the record straight.

Many other resources point out the contradictions and science of why the 6 million figure is preposterous. I guess even saying that makes me anti-semitic eh? But I’d rather tell the truth than worry about what people think about me.

Note in particular that Rajter links to Stormfront, a neo-Nazi site under the word "other" in that last parargraph. When his dubious citations are brought up in the comments, Rick responds (3rd comment):

Also, who cares if IHR is a “known holocaust denier” website. If I’m making the argument that 6 million didn’t die, wouldn’t they be a source I would want to cite? Particularly since they’ve put a lot of hours of research into it. Sure, they are biased. You know what, so are those that believe 6 million died. You know, when Auschwitz lowered their “official” death toll down from 4 million to 1.5 million, the “6 million total” remained. I don’t know about you, but basic math dictates that the number should at least go down to 4 million even if you believe the official numbers.

Cheers
-Rick

Comment by Rick Rajter — 2005-12-09 @ 4:18 pm

Say it loud, say it proud, Rick. The argument about Auschwitz is such a familiar trope of the Holocaust Deniers that it's even mentioned in the Wikipedia Entry on Auschwitz:

For many years, a memorial plaque placed at the camp by the Soviet authorities and the Polish communist government stated that 4 million people had been murdered at Auschwitz. This number was never taken seriously by Western historians, and was never used in any of the calculations of the death toll at Auschwitz (which have generally remained consistently around 1-1.5 million for the last sixty years) or for the total deaths in the Holocaust as a whole. After the collapse of the Communist government, the plaque was removed and the official death toll given as 1.1 million. Holocaust deniers have attempted to use this change as propaganda....

Essentially what the Holocaust Deniers try to claim is that the 6 million estimate includes 4 million at Auschwitz, but we know know the total deaths there were more like 1.5 million, so that means we have to reduce the estimate of the total number of Jews killed in the Holocaust to 3.5 million (6 million less 2.5 million).

See also comment #17 on that thread by Rick:

Interestingly enough, the Red cross later apologized for not agreeing with the numbers of 6 million (there red cross tally, I believe, was on the order of 400,000) and those deaths were not due to gassings and/or bullets to the head… but rather rampant sickness from typhus, malaria, etc from the marshy lands in Poland.

I don’t deny that people don’t have tattoos on their arms and actually had to stay in the barracks… but there’s absolutely no proof of gas chambers being used to kill people. In fact, the one gas chamber they do show has a plaque stating that it was built after the war!

So he doesn't even buy the 1.0-1.5 million estimate. Just disgusting. We'll see if the Scholars, Morgan Reynolds and Professor Jones disassociate themselves from this young man.

Hat Tip: (On Rajter) to Kent1 at the JREF forums.

A Few Thoughts on Scholarship and Holocaust Denial

Since this issue has obviously been a bit controversial, I spent some time and read the tract at hand, Eric D. Williams; “The Puzzle of Auschwitz”. Some have argued that questioning the number of Jews who died in World War II does not qualify someone as a “Holocaust Denier”, as legitimate Holocaust historians have weighed in on this subject. This is true, as so far that legitimate research is done on this. One may argue whether it is even a significant point, but scholars can debate whether 6 million, or merely 5 million Jews died in the Holocaust, without bearing this rather unfavorable title of "Holocaust Denier". But that is not what Williams is doing here.

First of all, Holocaust denial is not about arguing that no Jews died in World War II, even the most hardcore Nazi will not argue that. Holocaust denial is about arguing how they died. The deniers claim that there was no systematic effort to exterminate Jews and other undesirables, and that the millions who died were just unfortunate victims of war. This is what Williams argues. He argues that the Jews were well-treated laborers, and not victims of mass murder, he even goes so far as to mention the “open and caring nature of the camp”, while discussing Auschwitz.

Secondly, this is not a serious attempt at research. Now, I don’t claim to be an expert on the history of the Holocaust, beyond just having an interest in history in general, but as I mentioned previously, I did get my degree in Russian Studies from the Jackson School, so I have more than a passing familiarity with how to conduct research in the realm of European history, and this is certainly not it.

Poor spelling (he apparently doesn’t own a spellchecker), and malapropisms aside, Williams bases much of his book on photographs he took as a tourist, 60 years after the fact, other Holocaust Deniers, and his repeated disbelieving assertions that the Nazis simply would not have done this. One only needs to take a look at the footnotes to find a rogues gallery of other Holocaust Deniers, the Institute for Historical Review, Fred Leuchter, Jewwatch.com (gee, you think the name would be a clue), David Cole, David Icke, the Barnes Review, and “Dr Arthur Butz of Northwest [sic] University". Williams, who admitted he doesn't even speak German, and most likely not Polish or Russian either, brings nothing to the table other than these repeated myths. Cherry-picking a couple of sources in order to allege that the camps were not that bad, is not scholarship, it is offensive.

Much like the 9/11 deniers, Williams makes no attempt at a legitimate historical look at an issue, he starts with a political point, and goes shopping for fringe sources to back him up. This is not scholarship, it is offensive propaganda.

Up Canada Way

Joshua Blakeney, the dimwitted British Truther studying in Canada who claimed that Israel's fingerprints were all over 9-11 and then tried to weasel out by saying that just because their fingerprints were all over 9-11 didn't necessarily mean they were guilty, has an interesting Facebook buddy:

Joshua Blackeney (sic), a well-known Canadian 9/11 nut case, is connected through Facebook to Bradley Smith, the 'founder' of the Committee for Open Debate and the Holocaust. Yes, it is a Holocaust Denial kind of thing.

Blakeney posted on Veterans Today, his professor Anthony J. Hall's review of Kay's Among the Truthers.

This development helps block wider appreciation in Europe and North America of the historic and continuing importance of Islam in the genesis of Western civilization, global civilization. The sacred myth of 9/11 helps renew the old imperial ploy of divide and conquer. By highlighting issues of religion and ethnicity as the primary cause of, and justification for, global conflict, the sacred myth of 9/11 diverts attention away from the huge and growing gap between rich and poor.

As you may recall, it was Kevin Barrett who claimed the Holocaust itself was a "sacred" "myth":

I would still have to characterize the Holocaust as it is taught in the US as a hideously destructive myth. (A myth is a sacred, worldview-inaugurating story its users believe to be true.)

Hall's review is extremely long, and largely boils down to griping that Kay doesn't engage in a point-by-point debunking of 9-11 nuttery. Of course, point-by-point debunking doesn't impress the Truthers anyway, as can be seen by their reaction to the Popular Mechanics book.

By the way, Veterans Today itself was recently exposed as something of a bogus operation. But why would Blakeney post Hall's review there? Well, here's a pretty good clue:

What will you find on "Veterans Today"? Well, everything has pretty much one focus:

BLAME ISRAEL FOR EVERYTHING

Revere (a Truther moron himself) goes on to show some of the nuttier stuff about Israel at Veterans Today, some of which James has highlighted in previous posts. And if you're looking for Holocaust Denial over there, you won't be disappointed. Among their columnists (aside from Blakeney) is Dr Ingrid Rimland Zundel. Yep, that Zundel:

Years before I met and married Ernst Zundel and, thus, became a Holocaust Denier – because this malady, Denial-of-the-Holocaust, can be infectious, in case you didn’t know! – I made my living as a kiddie shrink: in academic parlance, an Educational Psychologist.

Once Ernst and I became a team, he asked me to do a monograph on “The Impact of Words on the Mind,” by which he hoped to neutralize the virulent character assassination of an entire people, the Germans who fought World War II, unleashed on them sans mercy by another set of bipeds, the Victims of the Holocaust. The latter try to run down every last “War Criminal” on earth. The former seem without defenses.

I'm not saying that Blakeney himself is a Holocaust Denier. But he sure has a lot of connections to them.

The Continuing Idiocy of Kevin Barrett

Looks like he's digging in about his Holocaust Denial; he's having a prominent Holocaust Denier on his show this Saturday, and he's published an open letter to Andrea (sic) Merkel on his blog admitting his own "skepticism" that six million Jews died in the concentration camps.

But seriously, Ms. Merkel, you may ask why I side with Hilberg's estimate of 5.1 [million] Holocaust deaths rather than the well-known figure of six million. My answer is that Thomas Dalton, in his book Debating the Holocaust, presents evidence that the figure of six million European Jewish victims threatened with destruction repeatedly occurs long before anyone could possibly have known the real figure. For example, the February 23rd, 1938 New York Times describes six million European Jews as "slowly dying of starvation, all hope gone." Yet at that time the Holocaust, much less its precise body count, was still several years away. A few decades earlier, the May 7, 1920 New York Times cited "Jewish war sufferers in Central and Eastern Europe, where six millions face horrifying conditions of famine, disease and death..."

Barrett goes on to mention the Auschwitz Gambit, which has been debunked for years. Oddly after all this nuttiness, Barrett arrives at a number for the Holocaust:

After reading three books on the issue--Lipstadt's Denying the Holocaust, Shermer's Denying History, and Dalton's Debating the Holocaust--I am now prepared to state that I find pre-eminent Holocaust scholar Raul Hilberg's estimate of 5.1 million Jewish Holocaust victims a more reasonable estimate.

Oddly, because that's not an unreasonable number. Nobody, despite the claims of Holocaust Deniers, says that six million is set in stone. Indeed, in the famed lawsuit between David Irving and Deborah Lipstadt, the definition of the Holocaust was:

Evans argued that the term is generally understood to denote "the attempt by Nazi Germany, led by Hitler, to exterminate the Jewish population in Europe, which attempt succeeded to the extent of murdering between 5 and 6 million Jews in a variety of ways, including mass gassings in camps built for the purpose".

(Bolding added for emphasis).

I'm not sure where Barrett is going with his claims that the NY Times published stories about 6 million Jews dying much earlier than that figure could have been known or even contemplated; I suspect his argument amounts to "they kept claiming 6 million Jews perished after WWI and eventually the world accepted it about WWII." It's certainly a stupid argument, kind of like arguing that since Wonder Woman crashed her plane into the World Trade Center in a mid-1980s comic book, nobody could later have crashed a plane into the Twin Towers.


Incidentally, while we're on the subject of Holocaust Denying, 9-11 kooks, Bishop Williamson was fined 10,000 euros for his Holocaust Denial.

Hat Tip: JREF Forum Member Nick Terry. Good find!

When You Lie Down With Dogs

Don't be surprised if nobody wants to invite you to the dinner table. I haven't covered HR1955 much around here, because unlike the kooks, I know it won't affect them. But while discussing hate and pro-terrorism groups, a representative of the Simon Wiesenthal Center included Richard Gage's nutty group, the Architects & Engineers for 9-11 Crackpottery. The shrieks of anguish have not died out yet. The Wiesenthal Center also apparently monitors 911truth.org.

Now for the most part, those places have not been hotbeds for the particularly nasty form of 9-11 Denial which rails against the "Zionists". But they have also made insufficient efforts to remove these influences from their midst. For example, 911truth.org features at least one article by Holocaust Denier and fugitive Christopher Bollyn.

Many of the movement's most cherished "facts" come from Bollyn, which is why David Ray Griffin seems to be unable to publish a paper or a book without citing Bollyn.

Any possible doubt about the statement's meaning was reportedly dispelled by Christopher Maletz, assistant director of PNAC. Christopher Bollyn says that when he asked Maletz what was meant by the need for "a new Pearl Harbor," he replied: "They need more money to up the defense budget for raises, new arms, and future capabilities," and neither the politicians nor the military would have approved "without some disaster or catastrophic event." Christopher Bollyn, "America 'Pearl Harbored,'" American Free Press, updated April 12, 2004.

There are also lots of mentions of Holocaust Denier Eric Hufschmid at that site as well. Even when they acknowledge that they don't endorse him, they can't denounce him:

Eric Hufschmid, Painful Questions (2001). A fascinating but highly speculative wild card - no direct endorsement here.

And of course Holocaust Denier Kevin Barrett gets laurels from that site.

Having won his initial battles with rightwing censors in the Wisconsin legislature, 9/11 truth champion Kevin Barrett continues to stoke illuminating controversey (sic) at the university and in the local press.

(Bolding added for emphasis).

AE911Truth is a little more circumspect, but you don't have to poke around long to find some goofy stuff. Like Judith Ann Clayton's member page, where she notes:

911 was an inside job. Our government was not simply aware, but deeply involved with all phases as was Israel.

Gee, I can't imagine how the Wiesenthal Center could find that objectionable!

Fruitcake Barrett: Who's a Holocaust Denier?

Check out this absurd post at Barrett's campaign website.

The Cap Times regularly informs its readers that the estimated number of Iraqi civilian deaths due to the US invasion and occupation is under 100,000. As of the most recent print edition, the number listed was 89,900. The sources listed are the Defense Department, iraqbodycount.org, and nationalpriorities.org.

The Lancet, one of the world's most prestigious medical journals, says the real number was over 650,000 back in 2006. That means that the real number, as of mid-2008, is well over a million. Combining that estimate with Australian physician Gideon Polya's historical study, we find that a total of 8.6 million Iraqis have been murdered by Anglo-American wars, interventions and sanctions since 1950.

You can probably guess where the Boy Wonder's going with this; the Capitol Times is a Holocaust-denying publication.

Never mind that almost everybody discounts the Lancet study. For starters, it was funded by George Soros. No other estimate has even been in the same ballpark:

New research published by The New England Journal of Medicine estimates that 151,000 people - less than a quarter of The Lancet estimate - have died since the invasion in 2003. Iraq Body Count, which has been tracking confirmed deaths since the war began and has no incentive to undercount, estimates somewhere close to 90,000 civilians have died, and as others have pointed out, those "civilians" are disproportionately male and of fighting age; if these were legitimate "collateral damage" they would include a lot more women and children.

Barrett then goes off on the recent spate of bannings over at 9-11 Flogger, claiming that it's all a plot by Reprehensor and others to get rid of Muslims. Only a total fruitcake like Barrett could make the 9-11 Flogger folks look sensible.

He also posts an email from a Sara Lamadrid, who's one of the banned folks (but apparently not a Muslim) where they mention that one of the reasons for the mass banning was that a site called WTC Demolition had linked to a Holocaust Denier's video. Now I'd like to congratulate Rep for doing that, but in fact that was only the third reason he gave for his actions; the other two were that the WTC Demolition's feed from 9-11 Flogger called it anti-Islamic, and that there had been a (admittedly disgusting) post over there asking if Mindy Kleinberg's husband had really died on 9-11.

Sara lets us know where she stands on Holocaust Denial:

I want to be very careful in addressing the Holocaust Revision pretext for my banning at 911blogger. I don't consider myself a Holocaust Revisionist in the sense that I would reserve that term for serious historians, and I certainly have not put anywhere near the amount of time into researching WWII that I have into examining 9/11. On the other hand, I see a clear responsibility to support the work of serious historians such as David Cole.

Only serious historians like David Cole get to be called Holocast Revisionists? For the record, Cole has recanted his Holocaust Denial:

And just as I must set the record straight concerning my views, it is also incumbent on me to set the record straight regarding the video "documentaries" and media appearances I did from 1991 to 1994. These "documentaries" are merely videotaped garbage filled with self-hatred and pseudo-intellectual nonsense. My "media appearances" were nothing but an embarrassment. My glazed look, specious reasoning, and talking-in-circles during my talk show appearances would have hopefully alerted any astute viewers that this was a man not in touch with reality.

So if Ms Lamadrid would like to support the work of David Cole, she should be supporting his current views, not those he has since described as "videotaped garbage".

Robinowitz Tackles Griffin's Tikkun Piece

Mark Robinowitz points out some of the errors (no permalink; entry is dated March 5, 2007) in David Ray Griffin's piece in Tikkun (while of course ignoring others). Amazingly, Tikkun, which is published by a Rabbi, included the citations that Griffin makes to Holocaust Denier sources:

Worse, Griffin's article relied on several neo-Nazi Holocaust denial propagandists as alleged reliable sources -- which is especially outrageous to insert into a publication like Tikkun. The American Free Press, which Griffin considers credible, is a white supremacist publication that also publishes "The Barnes Review," the largest Holocaust denial publication in the country. (Barnes Review sells lots of titles claiming the Holocaust did not happen and praised Hitler as worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize!). Eric Hufschmid, also cited as a credible source, proudly boasts on his website that he doesn't believe the Holocaust happened, either. Rense.com, also given publicity in Griffin's footnotes, promotes the cause of Holocaust denial along with kooky stories of the paranormal that are entertaining to some but not appropriate for a serious examination of government malfeasance.

Actually I caught another source that should be embarrassing to Tikkun:

See Michel Chossudovsky, “More Holes in the Official Story: The 9/11 Cell Phone Calls,” Aug. 10, 2004) and A. K. Dewdney, “The Cellphone and Airfone Calls from Flight UA93,” Physics 911.

The Dewdney link goes to SPINE, which includes mention of how "Zionists" pulled off 9-11 and are helping to cover it up:

Third, as our own experience with the media suggests, stories that directly contradict the spin are unwelcome, to say the least, even from undercover agents. The extremely sensitive nature of the story would trigger a series of consultations up the chain of ownership to the top, from which a flat “no” would be issued. The mere possibility of Israel being involved in such a story would send owners into a panic. It is a matter of public record that all five principal owners are committed zionists for whom Israel can do no wrong. (See the MEDIA tab at the top of our index page for further information.)

Among the members of SPINE? Holocaust Denier Kevin Barrett.

Uncle Fetzer Signs On With Holocaust Deniers?

Note the question mark at the end there. Fetzer's name is included as among the signers of a letter posted at Indy Media protesting the proposed deportation from England of Dr Fredrick Tobin, an Austrian Holocaust denier, to Germany to face charges over his nuttery.

Now you know how it is; I personally don't think kooks should face charges over their fruitcake theories. But the letter goes well beyond that, praising Tobin and other no-Holocaust nutjobs. Consider this part:

Rev. Ted Pike, a major American pro-First Amendment activist, states in “Toben Grabbed: International Hate Laws Bite Down”1 that “Every American, especially Christians, should protest this outrageous attack on freedom of speech. Although most Americans do not think like Dr. Toben, his arrest is just a taste of what will come—for Americans like you and your family—if we do not defend freedom now.”

Reverend Ted Pike? Yeah, he's a major American pro-First Amendment activist. He's also an anti-Semitic nutjob. I won't link his site, but among the useful bits of information he provides are these nuggets:

23 Oct 08 - Pedophilia: Thriving in Judaism's Right
ACLU Top Heavy with Jews
The Jews Behind Da Vinci Code

Note that he's not even hiding behind the usual "I'm talking about Zionists, not Jews" formulation that most anti-Semites use.

The letter also touts Toben's support for Captain Eric May's particular brand of lunacy:

Dr. Toben is a free thinker who has fearlessly explored other important issues besides Holocaust revisionism. He ran one of the first web sites to archive works by Capt. Eric May that exposed 9/11 as a likely CIA-Mossad inside job. May also suggested that petro-chemical explosions in the greater Houston area could be part of a dress rehearsal pattern for a repeated “9/11” terror event designed to justify war against Iran and domestic martial law.

May is crazy even by the standards of the Troofers; check out this bit of his numerology:

"A Beautiful Mind" was filmed before 911, in early 2001, but it was released after 911 - did the Hollywood Jews who made the movie know about 911 in advance, then brainwash us out of figuring it out? Come to think of it, was the whole attack a number game, in which the feds had spent years preparing us to call Big Brother in a national "911 call" in response to a "911 attack?” Is Hollywood part of a psychological operation?

The film was released on a very special date (and we've already seen how well dates can code): December 21st 2001. OK, try the number-code tricks I taught you above (see link, ed) and find the numeric sequence 12/21/21! The "Jewish" number 12, then 12 reversed - twice! It's all 12 permutations! Well, it's plenty tricky, but this has been a tricky infowar - at least to those of us (like Ghost Troop) with beautiful minds!

Or this:

Ninth paragraph:

"Since Nov. 1, wildfires have consumed more than 380,000 acres, destroyed 220 homes and businesses and killed two people."

This decodes to 111, then 11, then 22, then 2. Connect 22 with 2 and get 222; then reduce the 222 to 111. Now connect the date 111 with the acres 11 with the (modified) destroyed homes/people 111 to get 11111111.

11111111!

More from the letter:

The latest news on Dr. Toben’s case can be found at Lady Michele Renouf’s web site. Another hearing will likely be held Nov. 11. This gives us additional time to mobilize global protest against this international outrage.

Lady Michele Renouf? Yep, yet another Holocaust Denier:

Renouf has become increasingly known in recent years for her support of prominent Holocaust deniers. Her interest in World War II and the Holocaust began in 2000, when she read a newspaper article on David Irving's libel case against historian Deborah Lipstadt. She attended the hearing and became impressed with Irving's case, saying "I found on Irving's side of the courtroom a solitary person representing himself, backed up by enormous forensic research and tremendously capable debate based on substance and fact... On the other side of the courtroom I saw 21-25 people with laptops connected it seems to the Israeli government."

History On Trial

Last month I made a post on the connection between the approach of Holocaust Deniers and 9/11 Deniers, based off of reading Deborah Lipstadt's book, Denying the Holocaust. It must have struck a nerve because it immediately drew the wrath of some of the extremists who post here, and currently has nearly 200 comments. Among the comments, Professor Lipstadt was kind enough to post here and recommended that I read her next book, History on Trial: My Day in Court With David Irving.

So with my interest in this subject, and history in general (I was a Russian Studies major in college after all) I set off to do just that. In many ways, by being more focused, I found this book a more interesting refutation of the denier theories than the previous one, and found it as a whole fascinating. History on Trial, in short, covers the episode where British historian David Irving, using the rather ridiculous British standards for libel, sues Professor Lipstadt for libel, for documenting in her previous book that he was a Holocaust denier who employed dubious historical standards. Of course Irving is hampered in his court case by the that fact that he is.

This subject bears more than just a passing connection to the 9/11 deniers. After all, it was David Irving who Kevin Barrett was referring to when he said:

As a rational person who is not a specialist in the subject of WWII, but who has studied the history of Zionist Big Lies vis-a-vis Palestine, I cannot possibly dismiss the arguments of people like Green, Irving, and even Zundel.

And when Christopher Bollyn wrote an e-mail to Steven Jones defending himself against accusations of anti-Semitism, his claims of hundreds of thousands of deaths were most likely based on Irving's book, "The Destruction of Dresden", where Irving first greatly exaggerated the casualty toll in an attempt at moral equivalence with the Holocaust. It should be noted though, that Bollyn exaggerates even beyond Irving's lie. It should be no suprise though, that these people continue to cite the arguments of Irving, even years after they have been proven false.

But the ties are not merely ideological, among a few fringe members, but lead into the tactical. By suing Lipstadt, Irving was trying to get her to withdraw her book from the market, and to silence further criticism of his work. Ironically, he then tried to claim that in fact he was the victim of a campaign to silence him and suppress his freedom of speech, much like the 911 conspiracy movement is constantly claiming that they are being censored, merely because others disagree with their work. This has moved beyond theoretical, because the 911 conspiracy movement is also using the courtroom against their ideological opponents, most famously with Kevin Ryan's failed lawsuit against Underwriters Laboratory, but also with attempts by Morgan Reynolds and others to get NIST to alter their findings. This issue is more than just theoretical for me, because even I have been threatened with a libel suit in the British courts, merely for blogging about the Leo Wanta nuttiness. How long before one of the 9/11 Deniers also resorts to this tactic to silence their opponents?

As I pointed out in my previous post, the tactics employed by the Holocaust Deniers and 9/11 deniers mirror each other, and this book makes it even clearer. The author's lawyers, clearly lay out the pattern of abuse of history that Irving is guilty of, including quote mining (calling Dylan Avery), mistranslating documents, and outright lying. Irving continuously defends himself claiming that he like anyone else makes mistake, in which case the defense points out quite rightly, that random mistakes should even out in the end, coming down 50% in favor of, and 50% against one's argument, but Irving's "mistakes" were exclusively to the benefit of making Hitler and the Nazis look better. One can find the same "mistakes" in just about every 9/11 denier webpage, book, or movie (calling Dylan Avery) ever made.

Professor Lipstadt also makes some interesting comments regarding the nature of historiography in general. Irving tries to prove his case by arguing minutiae, be it the nature of the elevator doors at Auschwitz, a single instance of coats being distributed at a concentration camp, or, more grotesquely, the amount of coal needed to incinerate a corpse, all while ignoring the big picture, which overwhelmingly indicated the nature of the Holocaust. As Lipstadt points out, history is not done this way, through taking minor points and reaching big conclusions, it is done through the preponderance of evidence. Keep this in mind the next time you are arguing about the exact altitude cell phones work at.

Most disturbingly, I was struck by the fact that many defended Irving on the grounds of free speech, just as people defend 9/11 deniers saying that they have the right to their version of history. This is especially absurd, because Irving was the one trying to silence the opposition. Yes, historical revisionist have the right to spout their lies, but they also have the right for others to correct them, and to call them what they are.

Dylan & Co Suck Up To Holocaust Denier

This may be a little too much inside baseball, but there's a very interesting mp3 of a phone conversation between Dylan Avery, Jason Bermas, Korey Rowe and holocaust denier Eric Hufschmidt, who claims:

Furthermore -- and more importantly -- Dave von Kleist, Dylan Avery, Jason Bermas, and Korey Rowe deny that there is any Zionist involvement in 9/11. They are Zionist Deniers. In addition, they are Holocaust Promoters.

If the criminal network is controlled by Zionists, then of course they would promote the people who deny Zionism!

If Europe can arrest people for investigating the Holocaust, we in America should arrest Zionist Deniers.

So listen to the telephone conversation I had with Dylan, Korey, and Jason, and ask yourself, are these three students being honest? Or should they be arrested for Zionism Denial? Or Holocaust Promotion?

But despite this rather strong condemnation of Dylan, Korey, and Jason, which of course should redound to their credit, if you listen to the MP3, they spend an hour on the phone with this complete fruitcake, who also denies the Apollo moon landing, and has about a million other theories. They spend a fair amount of time stroking him, trying to convince him that it's not his nuttiness that resulted in his film failing to sell while theirs is going through the roof.

My absolute favorite part is the "John Kerry is a crypto-Jew" bit, which Hufschmid gets into at about 12:30:

Huffschmidt: Well, what about other issues. You were saying also--what is it--you don't think that crypto-Jew issue is really for real, you think that was a bunch of nonsense?

(Chatter)

Bermas: Alright Eric, if you're gonna say, alright, I'm pretty familiar with John Kerry, I've heard him called a crypto-Jew.

Huffschmidt: Who?

Bermas: John Kerry. And I'm no fan of John Kerry by the way...

Huffschmid: John Terry? Wait a minute, who's John Terry?

Bermas: John Kerry the vice presidential candidate. (sic)

Huffschmid: Oh, John Kerry.

Bermas: Well, you know I've heard Daryl, I was listening to TCM? refer to him as a crypto-Jew. I can't prove that. What I can prove though, is that he's a member of Skull & Bones....

It's interesting that Huffschmid just brings up the topic of these "crypto-Jews" and immediately Bermas latches onto John Kerry (who was brought up Catholic, but apparently had a Jewish grandfather).

The essence of the conversation seems to be that Hufschmid is upset that Pacifica radio is selling their DVD and not his, and he's been told that it's because of his looney tunes ideas about the Holocaust and the Apollo moon landing and of course he can't figure out why the tinfoil hat ideas he holds on those issues should rule against the tinfoil hat ideas he holds on 9-11.

It is difficult in listening to this conversation, to avoid feeling some sympathy for the Loosers. They are on the phone with a guy who's nuttier than a Blue Diamond warehouse.

But remember--they keep sucking up to him. They need his help, or at least hope to avoid his active antagonism to their film.

So this part comes at 33:15:

Avery: Eric, you're getting upset because people aren't talking about Zionism, I mean, that's all it comes down to, and the fact is people don't want to hear that sh*t--

Bermas: And it's not that it's not legitimate, I just haven't seen enough information to say that this Zionist Cabal that everybody's talking about, is responsible. To me, it seems like it's greedy, hungry occultists that are Luciferian--I mean, I'm not saying I'm a religious person or one way or the other, but I do believe a lot of these guys believe in "Do as thou wilt." I mean, that's the bottom line.

As you can probably guess, the fact that Bermas comes off sounding sane after talking about Luciferians and stroking Hufschmid on his nutty theories about the Zionists just highlights what a complete fruitcake they're trying desperately to convince not to sabotage their efforts.

BTW, there is quite a bit of discussion in this phone call of the "Final Cut". Apparently they are going to issue a version without Karl Schwarz. They claim they're going to narrow it down to stuff they can prove, which would mean some rather wholesale changes to the film (like limiting it to the credits). Any guesses as to which nutty theory they'll adopt and which they'll finally drop?

Scratch Uncle Fetzer....

Find a Holocaust Denier underneath.  Qu'elle surprise!

And this just in: Dr. Fetzer is so hopping mad at the Zionists that he's decided to come out of the closet and announce his support for holocaust revisionism! After studying the issue, Jim says that the "responsible revisionists," who admit that there was a Nazi holocaust but insist that there were few if any gas chambers and that the "six million" figure is wildly inflated, are correct.

 Of course, this is not the first time he's been caught minimizing the Holocaust:

 I believe Elvis is dead, I am not a Holocaust denier (even though I'm inclined to believe the numbers killed have been exaggerated)...

(bolding added for emphasis).

Uncle Fetzer: I Am Not a Holocaust Denier

But he is. Fetzer on a forum:

As for your question about popular conspiracy theories, I didn't think you were being serious. But now that I grasp your advanced state of mental deterioration, let me say, for the record, that I do not believe there are lizard people among us (though you may be the exception), I believe Elvis is dead, I am not a Holocaust denier (even though I'm inclined to believe the numbers killed have been exaggerated)...

Bolding added for emphasis. Of course, denying the numbers killed is a central element to Holocaust Denial.

As a reminder, Fetzer himself noted Holocaust Denial's similarity to 9-11 Truth at the Chandler conference back in 2007:



Hat Tip: Lenbrazil at JREF.

Is There Another Holocaust Denier In the House?

As we discussed, the 9-11 Accountability Conference now includes this statement on its website:

As a result of the controversy surrounding Eric D. Williams, he has stepped down from involvement in the 9/11 Accountability Conference. The 911 Accountability Conference does not support Holocaust denial, nor does the 9/11 Truth Movement. No other speaker listed here is known to have published works related to the Holocaust.

I'm not ready yet to name names because the website where this is found is questionable, but what would you make of someone who apparently wrote this? (Selected portions bolded):

However one feels about Green's perspective, and whatever the facts about WWII, it seems tragic that systematic Zionist Big Lies (we just want a homeland, not our own state; the Arabs started it; it was a land without people for a people without land; the Germans hated Jews for no reason whatsoever, just like the Arabs do now; the Palestinians left voluntarily in 1948 under orders of the Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem; most of the so-called Palestinians were not really from Palestine; the Arabs started the 1967 war; allegations of disproportionate Jewish influence in the American academic, media and financial sectors are false and anti-Semitic; the attack on the Liberty was a mistake; the Iraq war is about democracy or Saddam or US security or Peak Oil or anything except Israel, etc. etc.) have cast legitimate doubt upon ANYTHING Jews say about Jews and their recent history, including the Holocaust. As a rational person who is not a specialist in the subject of WWII, but who has studied the history of Zionist Big Lies vis-a-vis Palestine, I cannot possibly dismiss the arguments of people like Green, Irving, and even Zundel. And even if the 6-million-deliberately-murdered-for-purely-ethnic-reasons figure is correct--which it very well may be; I have grown agnostic on that after studying the Big Lies of Zionism-- I would still have to characterize the Holocaust as it is taught in the US as a hideously destructive myth. (A myth is a sacred, worldview-inaugurating story its users believe to be true.)

The upshot: nobody in the debate should be boycotted or vilified; nobody should be arrested for expressing honestly-held opinions; all voices should be heard; and the destructive myths and mind-numbing censorship imposed by Zionism must be swept clean so an honest assessment of history can emerge--at which point the Holocaust revisionists may very well be proven incorrect. And even if they are, they obviously should not be harassed or vilified, much less jailed!!

In the meantime, voices like Green and AFPN should be heard and subjected to rational criticism, not vilified or silenced. And the use of state power to enforce Holocaust Fundamentalism must end!

If that's not Holocaust Denial, it's at least its cousin. I have done just enough research on this to conclude that there is good reason to believe that this may have been written by one of the shining lights of 9-11 Denial, who is scheduled to speak at the 9-11 Accountability Conference. As for the gentlemen being defended, reading from left to right: Mark Green, David Irving, and Ernst Zundel. Holocaust deniers all.

I'm just going to put this out there for now; perhaps somebody at TruthMove would like to "break" this story? We'll revisit it in a couple of days after I've done some more research if the movement does not police itself.

BTW, thanks to a reader who pointed this out. I won't name the source for now for obvious reasons.

Moron the Holocaust Deniers and 9-11 Deniers

This is becoming one of the more amazing aspects to the 9-11 Denial Movement and the Loosers. Here's another handy-dandy poll to let us know where they stand. The question: Was it wrong to question the Holocaust?

As of now, the pool is running 2-1 against. But check out some of these comments on the post:

Sorry if some people thought it made the truth movement look bad, that was not my intention, N however there is no denying that 9/11 is connected to it.

The Holocaust and 9-11 are connected? Get these various comments from different people:

I'm not denying that the Holocaust happened. I just think there might have been something fishy about it when it did occur.

It's not wrong to question the Holocaust. Just don't try and drag it around with the 9/11 truth movement. They have no connection.

well it's possible that Israel/Zionists was involved in 911 and they were involved with the holocaust, so there could be a connection.

I think all the huge events in the past few hundred years might be linked.

Yes, I seem to recall there were some Zionists involved with the Holocaust, as well. What was their role? Victims I believe?

And you know that the CT crowd is not going to leave alone that last sentence about how all the events of the past few hundred years are linked:

...THOUSANDS

A Denier with some connections and seeming sense steps in:

The connection with the Zionists, I agree with. But you start talking about Zionists being behind 9/11 and start talking about the Holocaust, and a lot of people will dismiss you and any evidence you have. Too many people don't have the distinction that Zionism is not Judaism. The Zionists have done a good job intertwining themselves with the Jewish faith. And has been posted numerous times here, there are Jews against Zionism.

But by a few posts later he's gone off the deep end:

Okay. Israel and the Mossad connection is seperate in most people's minds from Zionism. The misconception is Zionism = Judaism. That's all I'm saying. Don't get into a trap about Zionism with the unitiated. Once some one sees the evidence of 9/11 and wants to expose the truth, then bring up the dancing Israelis, the Israeli "art students," the Fox News report on Israeli spying, etc. Then you can move on to Zionism not being Judaism and talk about the Zionists. Once you get past the Zionists, then you can move on to the history of it, and talk about the Holocaust.

Good old NesNYC explains how all these events are related:

You're right, they are ABSOLUTELY connected in that the "Holocaust" was the outcome of a world war and 9/11 is the spark that will ignite the next world war. The same power player "banksters" that were involved in the creation of WW2 are the same people behind 9/11 and the coming WW3. To understand 9/11 fully, you must understand how WW2 happened and the mechanics of the "Holocaust" and how it has been used and manipulated to set up the Zionist state.

9/11 Deniers Attending Conference Sponsored by Extremist Anti-Semitic Groups

I posted earlier on the conspiracy theory conference that Dylan Avery announced he is attending this weekend, in the wake of cancelling from the 9/11 Accountability Conference because of the presence of one or more Holocaust deniers. In addition other 9/11 denial notables such as Kevin Barrett, Steven Jones, and Webster Tarpley are listed as speakers. I mentioned at the time that the conference was sponsored by a rather interesting group called the Freedom Law School, which seems to be dedicated to avoiding income taxes. I am afraid I underestimated just how extreme they are.

Upon further research it appears they are not just some fringe group, like a bunch of tax accountants on steroids, they are even on a list of "active patriot groups" compiled by the civil rights organization, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).

The SPLC has even done news reports on their previous conferences. Let's just say they have some interesting friends:

IRVINE, Calif. -- Peymon Mottahedeh adjusted the knot of his Statue of Liberty tie and smiled broadly as he surveyed the cacophonous conference room inside the Atrium Hotel. More than 200 attendees swarmed vendors' tables as they waited for the seventh annual "Health and Freedom" tax-protesters conference to begin last March. Peymon -- who is known in tax-protest circles by his first name only, like Madonna or Prince -- had good reason to smile. At $50 a head, "Health and Freedom" in 2006 represented another substantial payday for the organizer and emcee of the annual gathering of tax protesters, which in recent years has attracted a variety of extremist speakers including Hutton Gibson, actor Mel Gibson's father, and Holocaust denier Willis Carto, founder of the Institute for Historical Review.

Slick brochures for this year's conference promised to show attendees how to "Wipe the IRS off of Americans' lives!" and provide answers to burning questions like "Is the One-World Government Coming?" and "Are The FBI & CIA Harming Americans?"

Ahh, the usual mix of Holocaust deniers and anti-NWO paranoids. The neo-Nazis at the American Free Press appear to be quite well represented, from the same source:

The real action of the weekend took place during breaks between speakers, when eager crowds formed at nearly every vendor's table, transforming the conference into a virtual swap meet of extremist and conspiracy-theory wares. Willis Carto's American Free Press needed two display tables for its revisionist history books and back copies of the Holocaust-denial magazine Barnes Review, another Carto creation. Both tables were nearly emptied by Sunday afternoon.

This association with the AFP, which we have discussed plenty of times before, is obviously continuing, as who is one of their speakers this year?

WHAT DID THE MEDIA NOT TELL YOU?



Mark Anderson
Reporter with the American Free Press, the largest independent weekly paper in America will share the major News/Events of the Year that the Major Media did not tell you! /www.americanfreepress.net

In fact, on the brochure advertising this conference, the AFP is listed as a co-sponsor.

The connection between the Freedom Law Center and Holocaust deniers is more than just incidental, last year the head of the organization, Peymon Mottahedeh, spoke at a conference year which was co-sponsored by none other than the American Free Press and the Barnes Review, the Holocaust denying publication which, as you may recall, published an article saying that Hitler should have won a Nobel Peace Prize.

The SPLC is not the only civil rights group that considers them extremists, this very event is on a list of extremist events compiled by the Anti-Defamation League:

Friday, March 09, 2007 - Sunday, March 11, 2007
Irvine, California
"2007 Justice and Freedom Conference"
Conference focusing on government conspiracies, sponsored by the Freedom Law School, a tax protest group

So Dylan, are you going to stand by your previous policy of not associating with Holocaust deniers and anti-Semites, or is the pay too good for this event?