Confirmation? We Don't Need No Stinking Confirmation!

Waterboy Kevin Ryan posts the good news that somebody else wants to test the dust samples to confirm or refute the possibility that they contain traces of thermite. The bad news? The Troofers don't want to cooperate.

I wrote back to the sampler and suggested to him that Corley could probably obtain his own WTC dust samples. After all, Corley had supposedly waded through WTC dust for months. Why was he asking for our samples?

The rest of the article is revealing for its paranoia. I laughed a couple of months ago when I noted that the French scientist who supposedly confirmed the thermite results turned out to: a) not have confirmed the results and b) opined that perhaps his samples were "deactivated". Turns out Ryan is just as suspicious:

Immediately after the article was published, it appeared that a response might be forthcoming due to inexplicable damage to several packages sent, via the US Postal Service, between some of the investigators who were involved. When my colleague Steven Jones sent a sample of the red-gray chips to my post office box in late April 2009, the samples had been removed from the double envelope package through a series of slits just barely big enough to slide the small vial out. The postal inspector never responded to my complaint. But when I later mailed something to my colleague James Gourley, the envelope arrived with a corner ripped out, in a gross kind of damage that neither of us had ever seen.

Professor Jones chimes in in the comments:

Excellent sleuthing work, Kevin --

as usual. I deeply appreciate your insights through the years.

You have identified one of the main insiders, IMO.

So in other words, they are not going to allow independent confirmation of their results. This is not the scientific method as I understand it.

We'll see if this flies with the "responsible wing" of the Truth Movement.

Yet Another Expert

The Troofers are patting themselves on the back over the fact that the former governor of New Hampshire, Walter R. Peterson, has signed onto their nutty cause. No surprise, when they say "former" they mean a looooooooong time ago; Peterson was the governor during the Nixon years. So Peterson is 88 years old. This fits in with the Troofer profile. For the most part they're either drooling through their dentures or barely out of short pants. Why is that?

It's pretty simple if you think about it. The folks who are most vulnerable to conmen are old folks and youngsters.

Anyway, as with all Troofers, Peterson cites something out of his particular area of expertise:

Peterson said both he and his wife, Dorothy, decided to support the petition article after watching one of the videos of the collapse of the Twin Towers, which he said looks like a controlled demolition to them.

“That raised questions because that’s not how a building would fall if it was attacked,” Peterson said. “Both Dorothy and I had viewed the video and there were certainly a lot of serious questions raised about what happened there.”

Drawing from his vast repository of experience about how buildings fall when they are attacked, no doubt.

Pat Buchanan, 9-11 Truther?

Update: According to this, the articles posted on that website are not approved or screened by Buchanan himself. A former Buchanan staffer named Linda Muller runs the website and is apparently responsible for the kookery.

Question:

* Who owns this website?

Answer:

* Since 1995, Buchanan.org is owned and operated by Linda Muller. While Pat Buchanan is our inspiration, he is not editor, publisher, or manager, and does not decide any of the content.

I'm a bit surprised that he allows her to create the impression that it's his website when it's not. Still, Buchanan's off the hook for now.

Hat Tip to Bill Giltner.

Well, well, well, Pat Buchanan finally signs onto 9-11 Troofy Troof. He posts uncritically an entire article by Alex Jones' flunky Paul Watson on controlled demolition at the WTC.

Now, given that it's Pat Buchanan, can you possibly guess what might have attracted him to the cause of Truthiness? I'll give you a hint; it starts with "J" and ends with "ews".

By way of background, Alan Hart, a former news reader on the BBC, who's got a bee in his bonnet about those evil Zionists, appeared on Holocaust Denier Kevin Barrett's radio program. Hart presented his rather novel views on Israel's history, including (inevitably) the USS Liberty incident. Barrett segues into the "Jews did 9-11" tangent and Hart reveals that he's a thorough crackpot. Adam Holland transcribed the segment:

Hart: So basically, I've stayed away from it because it give them the focus to take the attention away from your main message. But, since you've mentioned it, I'll tell you what I honestly believe. I think it probably started out as an all Muslim operation, okay? But I think it would be very quickly penetrated by Mossad agents. I detail it in my book. From almost the moment Israel was born, it had its agents penetrating every Arab government, every Arab military organization, and every Arab terrorist group, whatever. So they certainly would have penetrated this. And at some point they said to the bad guys in the CIA, "this is running, what should we do with it?" And the neo-cons said "let's use it".

The twin towers were brought down by a controlled ground explosion, not the planes. Now I'm going to tell you in passing that one of my friends is a consultant for one of the world's leading engineering firms. I'm not going to name him. They've studied the films and they've found that there's no doubt whatsoever that the planes were brought down... sorry, that the towers were brought down by controlled ground explosion. And then we have the film of the -- what is sometimes called the five dancing Israelis. Are you aware of that Kevin?

Yep, he goes into the dancing Jews were Mossad bit, then we get the eight hijackers are still alive crap. But that part above about how consultants for one of the world's leading engineering firms are convinced that the towers were brought down by controlled demolition is his real addition to the 9-11 conspiracy theories. Well, that and this:

Hart: That's right. It's established fact. It suggests that they knew that it was going to happen. It was possible, and this is Alan Hart speaking, that the planes were fitted with transponders, and these guys were calling in the planes to the targets. It's not impossible.

Yeah, and monkeys could fly out of my butt. It's not impossible. At any rate, you can see what attracted Buchanan to the story; he's long supported any conspiracy theories involving Jews, including Justin Raimondo's natterings about the Israeli Art Students.

It will be interesting to see if the Troofers follow up on this information. Surely Hart will not be allowed to remain silent about the identity of his consultant friend. Over at Flogger, this topic comes up.

Come ON, Alan. If you are going to make a claim as potentially earthshaking as this, please let us all know the identity of this civil engineering firm, the people to whom you spoke, the people who conducted the study, and evidence of the text of the study!

I don't agree with the "Truthers" often, but in this case I'll make an exception. Alan Hart needs to come clean about his source.

BTW, check out Buchanan.org's sidebar links. American Free Press, Paul Craig Roberts, AE9-11 Truth, Global Research, Max Keiser... it's a cornucopia of craze.

Oh, The Irony!

David Ray Griffin is back with another craptacular article on WTC-7, apparently cribbed from his speech at the Deep Politics confab the other week in Santa Cruz. It's the usual BS from Grifter, but I did have to laugh a bit at this part:

Omitting Testimonial Evidence

NIST failed, for one thing, to mention any of the testimonial evidence for explosions. Besides claiming that the event described as a mid-morning explosion by Michael Hess and Barry Jennings was simply the impact of debris from the collapse of the North Tower – which occurred at 10:28 and hence about an hour later than the explosion they had described – NIST failed to mention any of the reports of explosions just as the building started to come down.

Of course, the irony is that Griffin himself is guilty of omitting testimonial evidence himself. Testimony like this:

Firefighter Edward Kennedy:

"But this is as the day was going on and, of course, there were so many transmissions going over. I remember him screaming about 7, No. 7, that they wanted everybody away from 7 because 7 was definitely going to collapse...."

Lieutenant Rudolph Weindler:

"Captain Varriale told Chief Coloe and myself that 7 World Trade Center was badly damaged on the south side and definitely in danger of collapse. Chief Coloe said we were going to evacuate the collapse zone around 7 World Trade Center, which we did."

Firefighter George Holzman:

"We stayed there for quite sometime when I don't even know who, I think it was someone, Lieutenant Lowney spoke to, asked us to leave the area, they were concerned about 7 World Trade Center collapsing."

Firefighter Kevin Howe:

"At that time there was a lot of fire going on. I think it was the Customs House was roaring. The 7 World Trade Center was roaring."

Captain Robert Sohmer:

"As the day went on they started worrying about 7 World Trade Center collapsing and they ordered an evacuation from that area..."

Assistant Chief Harold Meyers:

"Chief Nigro directed me to continue monitoring conditions at the site. Specifically to monitor number 7 World Trade Center. We were very concerned with the collapse potential there, and to do whatever I could do to ensure site safety in that no additional people became injured."

Firefighter Fred Marsilla:

At this point, 7, which is right there on Vesey, the whole corner of the building was missing. I was thinking to myself we are in a bad place, because it was the corner facing us. But you do what you got to do as usual. We operated till they finally started pulling people back.

Firefighter Adrienne Walsh:

Then we were instructed to search through two or three buildings to make sure they were stable, and then they pulled everybody out because of the pink building. Was it 7 World Trade, that was going?
Q. Right.
A. Then they pulled everybody out.

Firefighter Kevin Quinn:

Then approximately I guess maybe two hours before number 7 came down, we went into Ground Zero and helped dig around and was there when they located Chief Feehan and one of the Chiefs pulled us all out because they said 7 was going to come down.

Captain Anthony Varriale:

At that time, other firefighters started showing up, Deputy Battalion Chief Paul Ferran of the 41 Battalion, and James Savastano of the First Division assigned to the Second Battalion showed up and we attempted to search and extinguish, at the time which was small pockets of fire in 7 World Trade Center. We were unaware of the damage in the front of 7, because we were entering from the northeast entrance. We weren't aware of the magnitude of the damage in the front of the building. We made searches. We attempted to put some of the fire out, but we had a pressure problem. I forget the name of the Deputy. Some Deputy arrived at the scene and thought that the building was too dangerous to continue with operations, so we evacuated number 7 World Trade Center.

Firefighter Vandon Williams:

It could have been an hour, hour and a half we were doing that before we were ordered to move away from that part of Tower No. 1 because there was an imminent danger of collapse of World Trade Center No. 5 and 7.

Firefighter Eugene Kelty, Jr.:

And 7 World Trade was burning up at the time. We could see it. There was concern. I had gone up to take a look at it, because I knew that the telephone company building, which is 140 West Street, was next to 7 World Trade Center, and there was a concern that if 7 World Trade came down, what would happen to this building?

Firefighter Richard Banaciski:

They told us to get out of there because they were worried about 7 World Trade Center, which is right behind it, coming down. We were up on the upper floors of the Verizon building looking at it. You could just see the whole bottom corner of the building was gone. We could look right out over to where the Trade Centers were because we were that high up. Looking over the smaller buildings. I just remember it was tremendous, tremendous fires going on. Finally they pulled us out. They said all right, get out of that building because that 7, they were really worried about.

Chief Frank Cruthers:

Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area ?
Q. A collapse zone?
A. Yeah -- be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it.

Former Utah Congressman is a Fruitloop

The Troofers are patting themselves on the back over this, but the guy is well-known to be a couple fries short of a happy meal.

Two years ago, Cook was briefly banned from state GOP headquarters after a foul-mouthed tirade days before the November election. Soon after he won his second term, Cook fired chief of staff Janet Jenson, who accused him of delusional behavior.

''Merrill has taken up permanent residence in whacko land,'' Jenson wrote in an office e-mail. ''If he asks you to fax his underwear to the speaker's office, please just do it.''

Jeff Hill, Still Dialing Without a Brain

Our old pal, the crazy Canuck:


Here's a clue for Jeff: Molten metal does not equal molten steel.

Update: Some particularly moronic Truthers want to talk about the thermal images taken by NASA on 9/16/01. They're archived here, on Jim Hoffman's site. Notice the temperatures recorded go as high as 1377 degrees fahrenheit. Which is about half the temperature required to melt steel.

Sander Hicks Starts Truther Party

Well, these guys never pretended to be more than one-issue dolts, so it's hardly surprising.

We are talking about starting what will soon become a major political force: something optimistic, smart, and savvy.

We will win elections. We will change the world.

Yeah, that's what all third parties say. Few of them ever win more than a local council seat. But:

I’m not talking about starting a “third party” or anything marginal like that. I’m talking about starting something that has great appeal, great politics, smart marketing, empowering culture, and a winning strategy.

Yeah, he's not starting a third party; he's starting an eighth or ninth party.

So Close....

And yet so far. I love this comment over at Truth Action:

Reportedly Dr. Griffin said quite emphatically at the Santa Cruz "Deep Politics" conference that Larry Silverstein had confessed to controlled demolition of Building 7. Such crap I expect from the likes of Barrett, but I don't understand how a rational and responsible person can make such a claim.

And:

What the hell has gone wrong with Griffin that he says such crap? Have his hero-worshippers given him such a swell (sic) head that he just says everything that pops into his mind?

Good gosh, have we finally found a sane Troofer?

Um, no:

My own suspicion is that Larry Silverstein deliberately made an ambiguous remark so that anti-semites would trip all over themselves construing it as an admission of controlled demolition, and thus they would discredit the controlled demolition hypothesis and associate 9/11 truth with antisemitism right from the start. It dismays me to see Griffin step in these traps.

Birthers and Truthers: Equally Moronic, But Not Equally Pernicious

Jonah Goldberg wrote yesterday:

As I wrote last year, I find it amazing that the "Birthers" are considered more dangerous and evil than the "Truthers." The Birthers believe that an ambitious man who travelled a lot as a kid has concealed the circumstances of his birth so he could be eligible for the presidency. I don't think they've made their case. And, frankly, I'm not sure I'd want them to at this point. Aside from the horror of a Biden presidency, I for one don't yearn for a constitutional crisis. And while I am sure there are more elaborate and crazier versions of Birtherism, the basic allegation isn't that crazy, at least in the abstract.

He's wrong there; Birtherism is crazy, just as crazy as Trutherism. They have a lot in common, including waving away all evidence that contradicts them as evidence of the coverup.

But I agree that the Truthers are more dangerous and evil than the Birthers, which statement came under attack from Eric Boelert and Kevin Drum (who, to their credit, dismiss the Truthers as "whackjobs (sic) and bombthrowers"):

Compare that to the birthers. It's bad enough that prominent conservative pundits like Rush Limbaugh, Liz Cheney, and Sean Hannity have flirted with the birthers. But what's worse is that birtherism seems to be a perfectly acceptable belief among actual Republican leaders. Sarah Palin thinks it's a question well worth asking. Roy Blunt isn't sure Obama is a citizen. Dick Shelby thinks it's curious that we haven't seen Obama's birth certificate. Michele Bachmann recently showed up at a tea party event and palled around with birther queen Orly Taitz.

I'm in agreement that both the Truthers and the Birthers are crazy. And I'm even in agreement that Birtherism appears to be more widespread among Republicans than Trutherism ever was among rank and file Democrats, and even more acceptable. And I'm appalled at those on the right who've embraced the Birther nuttery.

But for chrissakes, let's not forget the magnitude of the charges. On the one hand, you have a supposed conspiracy involving huge segments of the government, military and other professions in America to kill 3000 people.

And on the other you have a supposed conspiracy of a few people (most dead) to conceal the real circumstances of birth of a man who later grew up and was elected President.

Suppose both theories turned out to be true; which would result in executions? Nobody (well, nobody sane) would suggest the death penalty for those covering up Obama's birth, whereas I'd probably be among those recommending execution for Bush if it were proven to my satisfaction that he ordered or knew in any detail of the impending terrorist attacks.

Let me repeat this: Both conspiracy theories are retarded. Both share Phil Berg, too. But 9-11 Troof is pernicious in a way that the Birther nonsense isn't.

Clueless

I just love this post over at 9-11 Flogger from an Aussie twit named Naomi Breeze who thinks she scored a major victory for 9-11 Troof. A NYC firefighter named Dan Daly was giving a speech at a local church.

Dan then repeated his comments at which point I stood up and addressed the audience for one minute, mainly telling them that the victims’ family members wanted people to see this evidence. I mentioned Fire Fighters for 9/11 Truth, Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth and Religious Leaders for 9/11 Truth (the Monsignor nearly fell off his chair). I asked Dan if he had seen the peer reviewed and unchallenged scientific paper concerning the presence of thermite in the dust samples and he said “I don’t want to see it.” I attempted to hand him a copy but he refused to take it.

I then told the audience that I had plenty of information and DVDs for them. At this point there were a few cries of “sit down” and the Chaplain stood up and said “why don’t you find a nice man, get married and have babies.” I kid you not. I rolled my eyes and sat down. You could hear a pin drop. More questions from the audience including “are there actually two Seattle’s?”

Her success:

I made a teenage girl cry. She was upset that I was “rude to a hero.” I explained that in my opinion the true heroes were the people fighting for 9/11 Truth and told her it was wonderful to see her compassion and to get in touch once she had looked at the information because we needed kind and caring people like her. By the end she was okay. I think she was just a bit shocked. I was too. I’ve never made anyone cry about 9/11 Truth before.

Are you kidding me? And get this:

Dan bolted out the back door as the Chaplain stood there stunned. I told the Chaplain that “the reason he won’t talk to me is because he knows I’m right.”

No, the reason he won't talk to you is that he knows you're a crackpot.

Greens Reject Truther Hicks; Will Libertarians Go for Truther Hancock?

Sander Hicks is leaving the Green Party after failing (again) to receive its nomination for Senator from New York.

On Saturday, May 15, 2010, in Albany New York, the Green Party State Committee nominated its state-wide slate of candidates. I was a candidate for US Senate, and indicators were positive for the nomination. There were two open slots, and a dearth of candidates.

I was shocked when I lost. My surprise defeat, and the process on Saturday, were products of a process so flawed, I am prompted to resign from the Green Party State Committee, and its adjunct “Campaign Committee.”

I hereby resign from the Party as a member, as well.

In his resignation, he blasts the party's "cowardice on the 9-11 question." Predictably, Hicks wheels out all the tired arguments:

Even the heads of the 9/11 Commission admit now that they were “set up to fail.” Even the Chief Counsel of the 9/11 Commission, John Farmer, in a new book says that the Bush White House lied to the Commission.

Meanwhile, the Libertarian Party is in the midst of an uproar over the potential election of Truther Ernie Hancock as the national chairman.

In their April 24 head-to-head debate, Libertarian National Committee Chair candidate Wayne Root said of his opponent Ernest Hancock: “If you want to destroy this Party, name a national chairman who believes that 9/11 was an inside job by the government.”

Hancock is talking about sending Jason Bermas' new film to the LP delegates who will decide his fate:

Hancock mused about the DVD that he’ll be sending to St. Louis delegates: “I want everybody to know what it is that [Root] will not talk about. [...] I’m going to be controversial. I’m not even sure exactly what I’m going to send to the delegates. I’m leaning towards Invisible Empire.”

As usual, the real nuttery comes out in the comments section:

This makes me wonder if Root is a plant or is he just a guy who doesn’t really comprehend the big picture and/or is too scared or too narrow-minded to search for the truth.

Yep, paranoid people are paranoid about everything. I like this comment:

This shows how little you know about marketing. The 9/11 Truth Movement is MANY times larger than the Libertarian Party. 9/11 Truthers are skeptical of government and are anti-war and pro-civil liberties. Many of them are already libertarians or are libertarian leaning. These are people who SHOULD BE ripe picking for the Libertarian Party.

I doubt if the Troofers are really much bigger than the Libertarians, and if they are, that says more about the latter than it does about the former.

Hat Tip on LP story: Bikerman in the comments.

Truther Senate Candidate Suddenly Realizes that Nobody Supports Him

Less than 2 months after announcing his candidacy, and having accomplished absolutely nothing (which for a truther is appropriate) Richard Curtis announces he is dropping out of the race to unseat Washington State Senator Patty Murray.

I made a big mistake. It was an error in judgment and timing. I was asked to run for the U.S. Senate by progressives who want peace and social justice. I agreed to take up the charge and try to challenge the incumbent. I did this because I believed (incorrectly) that there was a historic moment at hand when people of good will would turn their backs on the two party system and flock to an alternative, even one they did not really know about. I also believed that progressive organizations would flock even more to a progressive alternative. After all we were promised change and instead we got a third Bush term with a new face. It is disgusting and I thought all of us were so disgusted we would act. It turns out that is not true. People are disgusted but they did not act – they are tired (see below).

Rich, we barely knew ya.

The Family Members Are Like "Good Germans"

Well, the mask slips a bit for Adam Syed:

(I'm finding it hard to not throw up reading this. The 'outraged' family members are no different than the "good Germans" of the 1930's and Fox News is nothing short of a Ministry of Propaganda. Incidentally, has there been any attempt to reach out to the hard core OCT supporting family members like Debra Burlingame? Would she really suggest that 1,000 architects and engineers are all wrong?)

What I found odd about this, aside from the swipe at the family members who aren't nutbars, is that Syed is a Holocaust Denier, as we have discussed in the past. At any rate, he wants to castigate the family members who oppose the building of a mosque within sight of Ground Zero. How dare those family members have any negative feelings about radical Muslims!

Note the Israelophobia in the comments as well.

David Ray Griffin, the King of Recycling

Here's Grifter's latest:


As you can see, it's just the same old crap in a new wrapper. He's labeled his talk, "Is the war in Afghanistan justified by the events of 9-11?" He throws in some stuff about the UN, asks whether the war will turn out to be another Vietnam, and then goes into his usual spiel about how Osama isn't wanted for 9-11, Barbara Olsen's phone calls, etc.

That made me wonder how many times Grifter can keep on selling the snake oil to the rubes. I mean, the next tour is pretty obvious: "Is the war in Iraq justified..." And then he can go to "Is the Transportation Safety Administration justified..." and then "Is the ban on boxcutters and knives on planes justified..."

Which Side Am I On?

The Troofers or the Anti-Fascists?

Obviously I side with the anti-fascists, which will cause some cognitive dissonance among our Troofer readers.

Also included was a color photo of Hitler, with runic symbols scrawled across his face and around his head. On the back of the photo were Germanic runes that spelled out the words “Destroy Yourself.”

Titrud, who is 50 years old and lives with his wife, was not surprised, nor did he call police. The letter included a calling card for Rose City Antifa, a Portland anti-racist group that recently tried to shut down an event Titrud helped organize featuring a speaker who’s been accused of anti-Semitism.

“They don’t really scare me,” Titrud says of the group. “These guys are idiots. It’s just kind of weird. Kind of creepy-weird.”

Titrud is one of the troofers:

Titrud and Calvert belong to the Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance, a group that challenges the accepted explanation for the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Some alternative theories assign Mossad a secret role in the attacks. Titrud recently removed signs on his camper, which used to read “End Wars for Oil or Israel” and “Israel, Stop Killing Peace.”

Yep, so the people sending him hate mail are on our side. Or are they just as nuts as the Almond Joy Truthers?

Some have praised Rose City Antifa for rooting out alleged racists in our midst. Others criticize the group’s zero-tolerance approach as nothing more than ideological bullying.

“They’re worse than the early colonists with the heretics, where you were removed out into the wilderness to die,” says Grace Grant, a member of the left-wing Laughing Horse Book Collective in Northeast Portland. “I don’t want to be part of that kind of community. It’s pretty heartless. I don’t know who’s setting these standards and norms.”

The precipitating event was one we noted back in September; the Portland Troofer contingent invited Valdas Anelauskas, a Holocaust Denier and 9-11 nutbar, to give a speech:

Therefore, as I see it, the "standard" version of the Holocaust history simply cannot be trusted as long as they're jailing or otherwise punishing those who question it. To make jail sentences be your response to critics is exactly the same as getting up on a rooftop and shouting as loud as you can for all to hear: "I am lying!" Is anyone supposed to believe someone who, in effect, proclaims in this way that he's lying?

VALDAS ANELAUSKAS

But what's interesting to me is the studied non-sidedness of the article in the Willamette Week. It's written like there's some sort of validity to both sides on the Holocaust, or like there's so much validity to 9-11 Troof that it forgives Holocaust Denial. Indeed the whole article seems to be about how this argument has divided the Portland activist community, instead of how it has galvanized the community against the idiots who deny 9-11 and, in the same breath, the Holocaust.

Yes, the article is stale. So is the entire "Truth Movement".

Stupid 9/11 Experiments

I don't know what is scarier, the fact that this guy claims to be an actual engineer, or the fact that he fails to understand the basics of gravity. Skip to 5 minutes in for the entertaining "experiments".

Blueprint for Nonsense

I'm going to leave this at the original width, as the writing is already hard to read. Good work here; I especially like the bit about how far the building would have had to travel in order to topple. As I never tire of pointing out, there is another term for the "path of greatest resistance": It's called "down". Gage seems astonished to learn that things fall downwards.

True Fart

Or, is that Troof Art? To see more incredibly bad artwork like this, click on the link.

Kevin Ryan Debunked

Solid job here. The Waterboy doesn't get cited much anymore except in the stupid "peer-reviewed" paper; if this video is any indication, it should be obvious why.

Pinheads at Ground Zero

Oh, boohoohoo! They don't sell 9-11 Press for Troof!

After That, They Start Charging?

I had to laugh a bit at this note at the end of a column on Box Boy Gage and Eric Lawyer's appearance in a Bay Area theater:

If you go
WHAT: Alternative view of Sept. 11
WHERE: Bal Theatre, 14808 E. 14th St., San Leandro
WHEN: 7:30 p.m. Saturday
TICKETS: $10; first 100 firefighters are free

Honegger at Respectable Truth Sites

One of our commenters griped about my mention of Barbara Honegger in the previous post, and suggested:

Simple test: register at a large truther site or forum that has a track record of not putting up with the fringies and ask what they think of Honegger.

Well, I hardly think that TruthAction would accept my registration. But let's look at some of the larger Truth sites and see what they have to say about the Munchkin.

How about starting with 911truth.org?

In December 2007 (well after I did my series on Honegger, she was noted as a featured speaker at the Boston Tea Party:

Ray McGovern, (see above) will be among the featured speakers at the evening presentation, along with Nancy Murray, Director of Education for the Massachusetts chapter of the ACLU. Military analyst and former aide to President Reagan, Barbara Honegger, and Donna Marsh O'Connor, professor of Writing and Rhetoric at Syracuse University (retired) and mother of 911 victim Vanessa Lang Langer, who died in Tower 2 on 93rd floor will also be making presentations. Other speakers may be added to the program.

In March of 2009, she was cited as among the charter members of Political Leaders for 9-11 Truth:

Barbara Honegger, former White House Policy Analyst and Special Assistant to the Assistant to President Ronald Reagan (1981 - 1983). (Charter Member of PL911Truth)

Honegger was also mentioned in 2008 as appearing in the movie Zero:

Question: ‘How do you propose to reopen the investigation?’

Chiesa: ‘The film is the primary instrument to get the debate going. It is a collection of discoveries, by many respected researches from around the globe (the film features, among others, Gore Vidal, Sibel Edmonds, Dario Fo, David Ray Griffin, Dr Steven Jones, Dr Kevin Ryan, Webster Tarpley, Barbara Honegger, FAA-controllers, USAF pilots, military commanders, physicists – ed. note). But they are still questions. The movie doesn’t provide the answers. It only lays bare the questions that remain, that were left unanswered by the official investigation and need to be answered by the US government.’

How about 911Blogger?

In September of 2007, she appeared on Air America, and the Truthers were aglow:

Yesterday, Sunday September 2nd, 2007, the disciplined effort of an LA Truther paid off in getting Webster Tarpley and Barbara Honegger an hour of air time on KTLK-AM1150, the local affiliate of Air America. Through engaging host Johnny Wendell in a serious 9-11 Truth dialogue over a course of many hours on the internet, she was able to get Wendell to invite Tarpley and Honegger, on very short notice, onto a show from 3-4pm he was guest-hosting for Joe McDonnell.

Note that there are no comments there decrying Honegger's appearance.

Truth Action does have some mention of Honegger, but not much.

Here's she's being touted as a speaker in LA:

SATURDAY TALK BY BARBARA HONNEGER (See www.911truthla.net for details)
Again, please note this reminder regarding Saturday's talk at the Unurban Cafe (details at www.911truthla.net). Barbara Honegger is a senior military affairs journalist, author of the historic Irangate expose' October Surprise, the first public resignation of conscience from the Reagan-Bush Administration, and author of the breakthrough 9/11 truth white paper "The Pentagon Attack Papers". Ms. Honegger is the 9/11 whistle blower who first connected the multiple military & intelligence war games and mass casualty exercises, which the Bush Administration was holding the morning of 9/11, to the scenario of planes crashing into buildings.

Victronix (aka Victoria Ashley, wife of Jim Hoffman) noted that there were problems with her:

Barrett and Honegger were there last year and the crowd didn't seem very large (I complained on blogger last year and no one knew who Honegger was, so couldn't understand anyone's issues with her), so the end result of mixing them with our best researchers is to provide false credibility for them on the internet, when the videos go up putting them altogether and the news stories come out with quotes, etc.

John Bursill mentioned the speakers featured in an Aussie film on 9-11 Troof:

Prof NAFEEZ AHMED -Director, Institute for Policy Research & Development, London
BARBARA HONEGGER - Senior Military Affairs Journalist, Naval Postgraduate School
GHALI HASSAN - Iraqi writer, Political Analyst, Perth
THIERRY MEYSSAN - Director, Voltaire Network, Paris
RALPH SCHOENMAN - Radio Host, Taking Aim

Here's another one with Victronix (apparently the only "respectable" troofer) pointing out a problem with Honegger that I admit I had not heard before:

I could list them, starting with the hoax LA911truth Grand Jury that featured Honegger saying that the shoebomber is actually Osama (a presentation based on facial similarities) and anti-semite Christoper Bollyn claiming that a plane couldn't have hit the Pentagon.

Wow. Richard Reid is Osama? LOL!

At any rate, you would really have to search 9-11 Troof sites very hard to find any negative comments about her.

Scholars Slam Troofer Appearance

Nice to see someone cares about academic standards:

Some professors at the school argue conspiracy theories have no place at UQÀM.

Julien Tourreille, who holds the Raoul-Dandurand chair in strategic and diplomatic issues, told Montreal media outlets that Truthers are intellectually dishonest.

"I think it's a shame to see UQÀM's name associated to such a movement," Tourreille told Montreal newspaper La Presse last week. "It doesn't help the credibility of a research institution that tries to demonstrate that it employs serious people."

U.S. experts at other Quebec institutions, including Steven Saideman at McGill University and Louis Balthazar at Laval University, also spoke out in public against the conference.

Good to hear that somebody's standing up and denouncing this kookery. As usual, though, the real hilarity is in the comments section. For example:

This link is for open minded readers.

Those unwilling to look at evidence, ignore the link and pass on.

http://physics911.net/pdf/honegger.pdf

The writer is a US Defence Department historian.

Read more about her at Patriotsquestion9/11.

Barbara Honegger? The Munchkin?

How Indeed Could We Think of the Truthers As Kooks and Weirdos

I dunno, maybe it has something to do with this post at 9-11 Blogger:


To anticipate the cries from the loons that Webre is not some mainstream truther, let me remind them that he co-authored a memorandum to Congress recommending President Bush be tried for treason. Along with David Ray Griffin.

The main grounds for concluding that there is prima facie evidence that the named individuals - U.S. President George W. Bush, U.S. Vice President Richard B. Cheney, U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld - abused the power of their office and committed Article III Treason on September 11, 2001 are contained in a Legislative Memorandum to the U.S. Congress accompanying the 9/11 Independent Prosecutor Act. This Legislative Memorandum was co-authored by expert researcher David Ray Griffin, independent scientist Leuren Moret and attorney Alfred Webre.

Webre was also a featured speaker at the 2007 9-11 anniversary festivities in New York City:

The LaRouchies seemed to realize they weren't welcome at the event, but it's hard to think that the sermon they were preaching was any more outlandish than, say, that of Alfred Webre, who was given 45 minutes to talk on the topics "9/11 as a war crime" and the "development of [an] international tribunal" for the Bush administration. After touching on those subjects (to great applause), he veered off course, arguing that an "artificial intelligence matrix" controlled by the Rothschild family might have caused 9/11, that the cancer rate in Iraq now stands at 30 percent, that AIDS is a biological weapon created to control the population, that global warming is being caused by a black hole 23 light years from Earth, and that the NYPD was employing a supersonic crowd disruption device that was depressing turnout.

BTW, do you know what that 2007 conference was titled? "Ready for the Mainstream". Seriously, folks, you cannot parody these idiots.

They Are Not Skeptics

In high school, I had a chemistry teacher who was very influential in my life. Not because I went into chemistry (I didn't), but because he taught me the difference between skepticism and cynicism. A skeptic demands to be proven wrong, but keeps an open mind. A cynic refuses to be proven wrong, and rejects all evidence.

The media seem to have adopted the practice of describing the "Truthers" as skeptics. For example:

A double-bill presentation scheduled in this city Monday evening by two leading voices of what’s known as the 9/11 truth movement has triggered lively debate over freedom of expression – after one researcher at the university where the event is being held labeled skeptics unconvinced by official U.S. government reports as “liars” and “intellectually dishonest.”

And:

Three Canadian universities will be used as venues for a speaking tour by prominent 9/11 skeptics.

As we have pointed out many times in the past, most Troofers, when asked what would falsify their beliefs, will say that nothing can convince them that they are wrong. That is cynicism.

What would convince me that I am wrong and the Troofers are right? I can think of quite a few things:

1. Video or audiotape of Bush and Cheney planning the attacks.
2. Shyam Sunder joining Richard Gage's gaggle.
3. Evidence which does not consist of quote mining, publication in joke journals, and which is verified by sources independent of the "Truthers".

That is the difference between the Truthers and me. I can remember at least one occasion when I actually did wonder if they had something; when Barry Jennings' story came to light. But it wasn't long until I realized that Jennings just had his timeline wrong, which explained the difference between his experience and everybody else's.

SEC Releases Report on the 9/11 Put Options

As I have mentioned before, I have always had a special academic side interest on the subject of the 9/11 put options, so it was especially interesting to read more on the SEC and FBI investigation into this, which was recently released. Despite the troofer claims that nothing connected to 9/11 was ever investigated, this part of the investigation was actually more extensive than previously believed.

In addition to the sex industry groups identified above, we also reviewed trading in certain financial products, including exchange traded funds and broad and narrow indices (e.g. Dow Jones Industrial Average, Nasdaq 100, and the American Stock Exchange Airline Index).

Together with the market surveillance groups at several self regulatory organizations (SROs), including the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE), the American Stock Exchange (Amex), the Philadelphia Stock Exchange (PHLX), and the NASDR, we obtained the identity of numerous accounts that traded in a total of 103 individual securities and 32 indices or exchange traded funds. We reviewed and analyzed trading records for those accounts to determine whether trades made during the period prior to September 11 were consistent with earlier trading. When possible, we interviewed the individuals for the investment decisions and/or the traders who placed the trades.

Cosmos and Gold

I finally got the whole "creative facial hair" thing that I've talked about in the past. It's just another way to say "I'm different, look at me!" much like the way so many of them belong to an oddball religion/cult thing is, just as being a "Truther" is. Another example of why this is the perfect movement for narcissists.

Has It Really Been Four Years?

It seems like only yesterday in some ways; in others it seems like a decade. Some random observations:

1. Traffic is increasing again at 9-11 Blogger. Year over year, they're up 40% from 2009's levels, and that's not some flukey month; it was up 45% in January, 37% in February and 40% in March. That's still about 27% below 2007, but there's really no way to paint a smiley face on this. Any hope that the Troofers would move on to other things in the wake of Obama's election is out the window.

2. Nothing ever gets debunked permanently with these people. Put options and "eight of the hijackers are still alive" will be prominently featured in David Ray Griffin's 2015 lectures.

3. There is a conspiracy theory industry. Alex Jones, Grifter and Box Boy Gage are the current beneficiaries, but inevitably somebody else will come along to make a buck off the rubes.

4. Everything can be explained as part of the conspiracy. If tomorrow, God forbid, Obama is assassinated, the Troofers will incorporate that into their theories. He was getting too close to the "Truth" and so "they" had to get rid of him. Never mind that he was supposedly the tool of the elites; their opinion of him can pivot on a dime. I'm sure that somebody right now is working the oil spill into their conspiracy theories.