Did Cindy Sheehan Sign a Petition Later Altered?

Heheh, these folks never fail to find a way to shoot themselves in the foot. Cindy Sheehan and several others apparently discovered that The "Kennebunkport Warning" they signed there had words changed after their signature.

To Whom It May Concern:

Each of us were approached during the rally at the Kennebunkport event on August 25, 2007, to sign a statement calling for the immediate impeachment of Vice President Dick Cheney. Since then, the statement has been altered and posted on the internet, making it appear as if we have evidence that this administration will carry out a "false-flag terror operation."

None of us have such evidence, and therefore, none of us signed a statement stating that we do.

We wish the authors of the document well in continuing much needed investigations of all aspects of 9/11.

Signed:

Jamilla El-Shafei Cindy Sheehan Dahlia Wasfi Ann Wright

Yes, you know, the old "Good luck even though you effectively forged our signatures to a document we did not believe in."

Update: More coverage of this matter from the "Truther" perspective at Winter Patriot and Arabesque.

The Arabesque post in particular seems to be written from a legitimately skeptical state of mind; unfortunately that disappears when it comes time to reach a conclusion:

Discrediting activist groups is a historical part of FBI CoIntelPro operations, and the Kennebunkport Warning Hoax appears to be another stunning example. A previous example was the “controlled demolition” of Scholars for 9/11 truth by none other than Jim Fetzer, who is also closely involved in this credibility attack. He was interviewed by Tarpley shortly after the Hoax Warning was submitted to 911blogger:

There is also this oddity in Arabesque's post:

No serious 9/11 Truth Activists believe that the WTC towers were destroyed with Space Weapons and this appears to be a ‘guilt by association’ smear. The theory has been debunked many times—by Dr. Greg Jenkins, myself, and others.

Que? Isn't Arabesque really Dr Greg Jenkins? (Update: Apparently not, as a couple of people have told me they are separate people.)

At any rate those posts don't change my opinion, which is that the underlying charge doesn't really matter; what matters is that the "Truth" movement has managed to shoot itself in the foot yet again.

If The Iranian Ambassador Says It's True

Juliette Binoche becomes the latest celebrity to embrace 9-11 crackpottery. And it's sort of interesting crackpottery at that:

A Few Days in September is witty and clever, but there is a serious point behind it - with which Binoche is more than a little obsessed. She describes it as a dramatised version of the events depicted in Michael Moore's documentary Fahrenheit 9/11. It alleges that various vested interests - including state security services around the world - knew what was about to happen on September 11, 2001.

While preparing for the role Binoche had long conversations with a secret agent, who consulted on the film and on whom she modelled her character. 'Of course he could not reveal everything to me, but he said a lot,' she says. 'Some things I forgot because it was just too much. Certain things I was very amazed by and when I told people close to me about them they just wouldn't believe it. Everything in there is true,' she adds, her eyes blazing with the fervour of a conspiracy theorist.

So is she saying the film is a dramatisation of real events? 'Absolutely,' she says. 'I went to see the Iranian ambassador at the time and he said of course it's true. Things that I thought were hidden and private… they were very open about it.' So she means the CIA and other agencies knew 9/11 was going to happen? 'Of course.' So is she saying it was an inside job? Or that al-Qa'eda was responsible? 'Everybody is responsible for it. If you only knew more, it's even more depressing.' She suddenly realises this is all getting a bit implausible and explodes into laughter. 'Humour is the only way we can deal with it.'

Which makes me think that she's just promoting the film's conspiracy theory.

When Irish Eyes Are Smiling....

David Ray Griffin gets the boot from a Dublin club where he was scheduled to speak.

But it gets even better. Guess who was hosting the event? Our old buddy, Morgan (116 votes) Stack. And guess why Griffin got the bum's rush? Because it turns out that Morgan likes to spread anti-Jewish propaganda like this:

"A Beautiful Mind" was filmed before 911, in early 2001, but it was released after 911 - did the Hollywood Jews who made the movie know about 911 in advance, then brainwash us out of figuring it out? Come to think of it, was the whole attack a number game, in which the feds had spent years preparing us to call Big Brother in a national "911 call" in response to a "911 attack?” Is Hollywood part of a psychological operation?

The film was released on a very special date (and we've already seen how well dates can code): December 21st 2001. OK, try the number-code tricks I taught you above (see link, ed) and find the numeric sequence 12/21/21! The "Jewish" number 12, then 12 reversed - twice! It's all 12 permutations! Well, it's plenty tricky, but this has been a tricky infowar - at least to those of us (like Ghost Troop) with beautiful minds!

Ghost troop? Did he say Ghost Troop? Why, there's a name I just stumbled across recently... here:

Subject: Re: Holocaust Fundamentalism - You WILL Believe--By Mark Green
Dear Mr. Green,

I read with great interest your essay "Holocaust Fundamentalism - You WILL Believe" just now, and am eager to forward it to Ghost Troop, my associates (military veterans and civilian supporters). We have come to be astute in the importance of body-count numbers to political purposes, and aren't a bit surprised to find that thoughtful men like you are questioning "official reality" in the Holocaust.

Please pass the word about Ghost Troop along. We have had over 3 million hits on our publications in our thirty months of operations, and our name has spread. We took on the name to haunt the traitors who continue to betray their country and the memory of its dead sons and daughters -- and it is working.

Best regards, and good luck with your scholarship!

Captain May / Ghost Troop

Captain May? Captain "Nuke Portland" May?

Kudos to Aidan O'Brien, who I strongly suspect is an old buddy of ours! I'll raise a pint in your honor!

Oh, and if you want to know about the nutty numbers thing mentioned in May's email, go here:

Ninth paragraph:

"Since Nov. 1, wildfires have consumed more than 380,000 acres, destroyed 220 homes and businesses and killed two people."

This decodes to 111, then 11, then 22, then 2. Connect 22 with 2 and get 222; then reduce the 222 to 111. Now connect the date 111 with the acres 11 with the (modified) destroyed homes/people 111 to get 11111111.

11111111!

Update: Check out the comments section over at 9-11 Blogger:

speaking on "Myths vs Reality" cuts a little too close to home for some. Can't have the Sheep questioning historic or religious myths. After all, that's a double edge Sword for Zionists.

That comment has been voted up three points. This one gets five net votes:

..and remember not all zionists are Jewish (many Christians are) and not all jews are zionists, like Rabbi Weiss from "Jews United Against Zionism" for example.

..and this raises one EXTREMELY interesting question :
are "jews" against 9-11 truth and if yes then WHY ?
clearly, they don't have anything to hide, do they ?

Plus four.

Chuck Sheen pops in to post two anti-Israel documentaries, because, you know, it's a terrible lie that the Truthers are anti-Semitic at all.

The Paranoia Spreads

It's amazing watching these 9-11 Deniers after awhile. They're all so concerned with who is a disinfo agent, and what evidence is just a trap that they're almost paralyzed from doing anything whatsoever.

A perfect example is the NORAD tapes, which Dylan managed to obtain a copy of this week. I listened to the first couple hours on Revere Radio last night, and it was quite gripping to hear these folks go from "Is this real world or exercise?" to absolute furor and efficiency as the scale of the disaster becomes apparent. I have even more respect for NORAD and NEADS after listening to these tapes.

But of course, the release only spurs more paranoia. After all, hasn't the great God Griffin denounced these tapes as fake?

Of course, since this is Dylan's shiny new toy, he gets upset at any hint that it's cheap plastic:

I strongly disagree with David's assertion that these are fabricated.

There's 120 hours of audio here.

Of course, Dylan's right, but it does raise an interesting point. If your fact checker says something's phony and you use it anyway, what good is your fact checker? Pretty obvious, right?

A bit of honesty here from "Racer":

Dont want to piss on the parade but If DRG has listened the tapes and ends up saying they're fabricated, the content must not be very favorable to the cause.

Yep, that's why Griffin says they're fake; not because they are but because they don't suit his needs.

Meanwhile, over at 9-11 Blogger, somebody finally suggests that Alex Jones was in on the plot:

First - I have always had my doubts about Alex Jones's *Warning* before 9/11. He makes a very accurate prediction before 9/11, the off the cuff matter in which he blurts out intimate details of the unprecedented attack has always made me wonder - How Did He Know. He didn't mention any specifics as to his sources he just saw it coming, but with such precision is still unsettling. After 9/11 Alex earn a premiere spot, he was alone in front of any one else for he was the one who predicted the attack. No one else could claim this thus he would always be seen as the defacto leader of any movement which was inevitable to spring up in the wake of such an attack.

Of course, Jones didn't make any accurate prediction, as our old buddy Perry Logan never tired of pointing out. He simply said that if a terrorist attack occurred, they were going to blame it on Bin Laden. Of course he was reading from the script.

So as all the lines seem to be converging and with the speculation that Alex Jones' WARNING was not a warning after all but a plant to insure his position in the front of the movement, I see this WARNING from Tarpley with similar intent. To proceed what the disinformation artists like to call 9112b. This along with other suspect leaders in the movement actions of late, like Barretts promotion of "Inside Job?" Banner rolls. All the while Fezter is no more than a step away.

Check out some of the comments on that post:

There is no doubt that one if not several of the high visibility names associated with 9/11 truth are moles. If 9/11 was indeed a gov't black op, then they would have definetly planted people to control the public's inevitable curiosity and handle the many details that have been mismanaged by the 9/11 operational team. Alex Jones seems to be a good candidate, so does Dylan and perhaps a few big name activists and bloggers. I'd say we should follow the money and access, who is making a living off of this stuff?

Dylan's not on my mole list. But then again, I could be lying to protect one of our most valuable assets. But now that I've admitted that, isn't it obvious that I'm just trying to get Dylan in Dutch with the movement? And now that I've admitted that....

Waterboy Wonder At the Bat

Somewhere crowds are cheering,
Somewhere yells ring out.
But there is no joy in "Truther"ville
Mighty Ryan has struck out.

Possibly the Stupidest Truther Idea, Ever

Now I am used to truthers coming up with stupid ideas to try and spread the "truth", from fake dollar bills to disguising troofer videos as porn, and they have even come up with the idea of using the legal system, but this call to action from the Muckraker Report, challenges the lead for troofer idiocy.

A great way to hit back is to hit the History Channel in the pocketbook. Educators and advocates within the truth movement should appoint themselves child advocates and challenge the History Channel in court for inaccuracies in the classroom. A grassroots effort to prevent this 9/11 hit piece from being purchased by public schools should be launched. Furthermore, based on the proven record of misinformation, any future History Channel material should be required to be reviewed and approved by a similar court appointed panel before our public schools can access the information and present it to our impressionable schoolchildren.

Yeah, I want these guys looking out for our children.

Ron & Mark on Schroeder, Rodriguez

This is a fascinating discussion about the John Schroeder interview tying it in with Willie Rodriguez's claims. The only negative is that the show is only a half-hour long.

Maybe Too Much Inside Baseball

But those able to get this should find it quite interesting and amusing in parts. Notice how Dean, the host, absolutely freezes when Nico is talking; it's like they've got a mannequin out there sitting next to him. And you can see Haupt actually flinch when the host tells him about his background, especially the dad who worked on biological weapons and the NASA connection, starting about 5 minutes in. If there's ever a disagreement between Nico and the host, we know he'll become Dean "Bioweapons" Loren.

Dylan On the Theatrical Release

We posted on Tuesday about how Jason Bermas stated that Loose Change : the Final Insult will be released on DVD in November, not in September as they originally promised (OK, the original promise was September of last year) and not on 3000 screens, or with a $20 million budget as they claimed in Hustler Magazine. I commented over at JREF on how the silence was deafening, the truther community had not responded at all despite the fact that their biggest icons had been lying to them, and what was supposed to be their seminal event was shrinking away to nothing. Well, someone finally asked about this over at the Loose Change Forum, and Dylan Avery responded:

THMQ, he didn't say there wouldn't be a theatrical release. He said we're still negotiating with interested parties and in the meantime we'll be releasing it ourselves to get it out.

Uhh yeah, because that is usually how major movie releases happen. You just float copies of it around on the Internet for a while, and then BAM! The next thing you know you are in every cineplex from here to Cape Cod.

Three Cheers for John Feal!

It's not often that we here at Screw Loose Change and the "Truthers" agree about something. But John Feal gets saluted over at 9-11 Blogger and we're pleased to do the same.

In January, John Feal was ready to give his kidney to a perfect stranger. But they weren't a good match.

That bad news led to a series of events that will culminate this morning in a Manhattan hospital and potentially save not one life, but three.

The daisy chain started by Feal includes six surgeons who will conduct three simultaneous kidney transplants at NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital/Columbia University Medical Center.

Feal has started a foundation for first responders; the website is here. I make no recommendations about donations to the group; despite Feal's undeniable heroism in this instance, his charity is too new to be rated by Charity Navigator and the mission statement says they're more concerned with spreading awareness of the health issues from Ground Zero exposure than with assisting those who have health issues. It is certainly arguable that government entities should be providing that assistance, and the presence of the Fealgood Foundation may prod the government in that direction.

But Feal himself? The man's a certified hero.

Another Lefty Joins the Tinfoil Hat Brigade

My Left Nut--errr, My Left Wing:

I still have questions.

11 of the 15 were Saudis, flying those planes.
Bush administration overlooks it.

The only flights allowed were to fly out Bin Laden's family.

15 of the 19 were Saudis, not 11 of 15. Bin Laden's family flew out of the US a few days after the flying ban was lifted.

Before PNAC was outed, and their site, ahem, "cleaned" there were many pre-9/11 references to needing a catastrophe to get the American people behind what they saw as an inevitable need to invade and gain control of the Middle East.

Sigh. Rebuilding America's Defenses you mean? It's still there, uncleaned as ever. There are no references to "needing a catastrophe" merely a recognition that the changes to defense policies they advocate would take time absent a "New Pearl Harbor". They don't talk about the need to invade and gain control of the Middle East; that's just nutty.

The Dissident Voice of a Kook

This blog is apparently considered an up and comer among left-wing websites, so I'm going to devote a little more time and energy to this post than I might usually. The Dissident Voice posts a phenomenally badly reasoned and written review of David Ray Griffin's crackpot manifesto, Debunking 9-11 Debunking.

He starts off with this ridiculous claim:

According to a categorical assertion by the Association of Muslim Scholars’ most senior member, al-Fayyadh, the Iraqi resistance has killed no less than 35,000 US soldiers and wounded no less than 70 thousand…

Just blowing his credibility right off the bat. However, he claims in the comments that he was just quoting this guy Al, that he believes we should consider the official number approaching 4,000 and the 35,000 number equally skeptically. O-kay!

Moving briskly onto the 9-11 topic:

But, most mind-boggling is the dearth of skepticism to the neocons’ version of what happened on 9-11 — the event that was seized upon as a justification for what is a litany of war crimes and crimes against humanity wreaked by the US state — including the supreme international crime, as determined by the Nuremberg Tribunal, described as encapsulating “the accumulated evil of the whole.”

How is it somehow the "neocons' version of what happened on 9-11"? Isn't it sort of like everybody's version of what happened on 9-11? Is Al Franken a neocon? Remember he doesn't believe in the conspiracy theories either.

Yet some progressives have taken to castigating fellow progressives for coming to conclusions about 9-11 that differ from the US government version (a feat which really calls into question the castigators’ adherence to tenets of progressivism, such as a commitment to diversity, free inquiry, freedom of thought, and free speech). It also leaves such critics open to charges of left gatekeeping.

Yes, they are guilty of gatekeeping this absolute crackpottery from taking over movements that they have worked for their whole lives!

Certainly, the “official” 9-11 view is not scientific. It is a post hoc explanation designed to fit a preconceived agenda. Although scientists will try to explain phenomena, science is not driven a posteriori but by testable hypotheses where experiments are conducted or natural observations are carried out. This is the scientific method. To date, I know of no controlled experiments carried out to test whether steel-laced high rises will collapse demolition- or pancake-style when struck by airplanes.

There have only been two such experiments so far; 100% of them resulted in collapse (although neither were demolition or pancake-style).

Another reader, John Pontrello, presented a very compelling rationale for such experimentation and why the “official” 9-11 theory has huger ramification:

[I]f the official conspiracy theory is true, we had better vacate every building in the United States immediately in case a fire breaks out and the building collapses killing thousands of people. Also, being that a building collapse is far riskier on all fronts than damage and casualty from fire, every building owner in America should be forced to insure specifically against pancake collapse. All high rise buildings should be temporarily evacuated until such a time when they are properly studied to ensure that they will not spontaneously collapse killing thousands of people. 9/11 has really opened up the possibility that buildings spontaneously collapse, so I argue that they should not be used anymore until they are proven safe. If three people were tossed and killed from a roller coaster on one day, would you put your children on it? Furthermore, every building in America should abandon evacuation drills for fire and replace those mandatory drills with Pancake evacuation drills where something like window ejection with parachutes are provided, since stairwell evacuations will not protect one from the upper floors falling on them.

Simply retarded. As we have discussed extensively in the past, the 9-11 collapses have resulted in many changes to building codes.

International Code Council members last year approved a change to the International Building Code (IBC) related to the World Trade Center collapse. The IBC now requires that buildings 420 feet and higher have a minimum three-hour structural fire-resistance rating. The previous requirement was two hours. The change provides increased fire resistance for the structural system leading to enhanced tenability of the structure and gives firefighters additional protection while fighting a fire. The IBC establishes minimum standards for the design and construction of building systems. It addresses issues such as use and occupancy, entry and exit during emergencies, engineering practices and construction technology.

More important, as all the cranks do, the writer tries to claim that the building collapses resulted solely from the fire. Those of us who were paying a little closer attention might recall that something happened before the fire. In the case of the towers, they had two 767s flown into them. In the case of WTC-7, it was pelted with debris from not one, but two 110-story buildings collapsing near them.

But there must be a way to lean toward what best approximates the truth. One way, is to determine motives. A well recognized motive has always been personal enrichment. Evidence from 9-11 points to many protagonists in this regard, including people within the military-industrial complex and one World Trade Center owner. The motive attached to the alleged 9-11 attackers of hating American freedoms is risibly pathetic and self-defeating for its promulgators in that since 9-11 American freedoms have been severely curtailed. If this was, indeed, the motivation of alleged 9-11 attackers, then it represents a victory for the alleged haters of American freedoms?

Wait a minute, they hated us for our freedoms, the attack resulted in us losing our freedoms, therefore they didn't gain anything? And the notion that Larry Silverstein benefited from 9-11 is nutty. He's getting far less than the cost of rebuilding the buildings from the insurance and wanted to insure them for even less, but his lenders insisted on a higher amount.

Dr. David Ray Griffin has been a foremost writer on what transpired on 9-11, which he compellingly avers to be an insider job. Griffin is a theologian and some people attack him on this basis. This, however, is a thoroughly arrogant, elitist, and self-defeating argument that must be utterly refuted because of what it represents. First, it assumes that only experts are able to speak on a topic with authority. Second, it assumes that experts are correct, but that this is false is easily revealed by the fact that experts disagree among themselves. Third, it assumes that “average” folks cannot train themselves to become experts. Fourth, it assumes that “average” folks cannot understand the intricacies of specialized subject areas. The logical outcome of such assertions is that non-specialists must rely on experts to inform them how they should think — a complete sop to critical thinking and egalitarianism.

All valid points, which may be why I've never heard anybody criticize Griffin for being a theologian. It would be better for the movement if he were a structural engineer, but then he wouldn't be a "Truther" so perhaps it all works out. But note as well that the writer's desire for egalitarianism probably does not apply to topics that fit the leftist worldview; I doubt he similarly dismisses the experts on, say, Global Warming.

He assaults the “official conspiracy theory” from many quarters: the stupendous unlikelihood of cell phones operating at high altitude in 2001, the glaring discrepancies in “official” time sequences reported, the likelihood of the alleged pilots being able to carry out the maneuvers they are alleged to have done, the pancake theory of WTC buildings collapse, etc.

Is this like the fourth time he's mentioned the pancake theory of collapse? I really wish he'd stop, since that is not the "official" or even the "neocon" theory. I won't even tackle the cellphone issue other than to ask him to check how many phone calls were made from cellphones and how many of those were made at high altitude. Then maybe he'd realize how foolish he sounds parroting Griffin.

The weakest link in the “official” theory appears to be its explanation of the demolition-style collapse of WTC building 7: a building which was not struck by planes; had no demonstrably large, nor hot, fires burning; and was foretold as having collapsed ahead of time; and which the 9-11 Commission did not even try to explain.

Griffin asks why, if WTC 7 was awash in flames, no photographers and TV camera crews on the scene recorded this spectacle.

Because it was the south face of the building that was on fire. You know, where folks were busy doing minor things like looking for survivors in the rubble of the towers?

Griffin points out that there was extensive foreknowledge of WTC 7’s imminent collapse among firefighters and medical workers. Griffin quotes medical worker Decosta Wright: “they measured out how far the building was going to come, so we knew exactly where we could stand,” which was “5 blocks away.”

They knew the building was coming down because they had fixed a surveyor's transit on a corner of the building and noticed that the structure was moving; never a good thing in a 47-story building.

The words of WTC owner Larry Silverstein on PBS, give credence to a demolition about to occur: “I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, ‘We’ve had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.” And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.”

Because, you know, participants in mass murder always admit their crimes on PBS. Or is it on Perry Mason?

Hilariously, he tries to wield Occam's Razor and ends up slitting his own throat:

Occam’s Razor — also referred to as the Principle of Parsimony — holds that the simplest theory is preferable; therefore, any explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible. But Garcia relies heavily on assumptions in his “dark fire” theory.

The demolition theory is simple. It requires only that one assume that some person(s) rigged the WTC 7 with explosives. This is less crazy than assuming Osama bin Laden’s freedom-hating Arabs piloted the planes and set off the first ever fire-induced demolition of a high rise building.

Yes, of course, except that you have to explain the planes and the freedom-hating Arabs on board who had trained to become pilots but didn't seem interested in learning how to land or take-off....

A remarkably stupid post.

The Crackpot Index

Heheh. I didn't know this was around, and it's more geared to physics crackpots, but some of it still applies and it's pretty amusing:

5. 5 points for each such statement that is adhered to despite careful correction.

How many times has Jason Bermas been told that the President's brother didn't have anything to do with security at the WTC? But he can't let it go, because it's such a "Woo!" inducing claim.

35. 40 points for comparing yourself to Galileo, suggesting that a modern-day Inquisition is hard at work on your case, and so on.

Of course, Alex is off the charts on this scale; in an average show he probably cracks 1000 on the index without even breaking a sweat.

36. 40 points for claiming that when your theory is finally appreciated, present-day science will be seen for the sham it truly is. (30 more points for fantasizing about show trials in which scientists who mocked your theories will be forced to recant.)

Kevin Barrett, come on down!

More Loose Change Forum Wisdom

With a bit of a sense of irony, a poster put up a list of people who must be conspirators in 9/11, only two days after Jason Bermas announced on the BBC that probably less than 50 people were involved. This list, despite being incomplete lists over 80 people, everyone from Larry Silverstein, evil Jewish landlord, to distant cousins Michael and Benjamin Chertoff. And these are just the masterminds, this does not include the people who would have had to physically carry out the plot. One can only guess how many people would be needed to blow up three large skyscrapers, make 4 airliners and several hundred passengers disappear, fake 4 plane crashes, and spread airplane debris and human remains in the Pentagon and Shanksville. Not to mention manage the ensuing coverup involving thousands of professional investigators, engineers and scientists.

The silly thing is, as stupid as this list of 80 is, it actually makes more sense than Bermas. Oh the irony.

Another Group for the Troof

Dylan has updated the schedule for the 9/11 Anniversary (remember, it is about them, not the victims) and this performer appearing under "Truth Stock" one had me falling out of my chair:

Breaks Kru, BreakDancers for 911 Truth

I swear, these people are parodies of themselves.

The Guillotines Return

Ever since Uncle Fetzer brought up the issue of FEMA camps stocked with guillotines (made in China no less), the issue has pretty much died, but now a poster at the Loose Change Forum has brought up the issue, and this time he has proof!

Here's the article.

Now ask yourself why would they need GUILLOTINES,(Or is that a stupid question?) which are used to chop off peoples heads?30,000 of them, what's going on here?

Here's the link will post more as I find them,

note : if you have info. on this please post it.

Guillotine link : http://www.remnantofgod.org/guillotines.htm

Also note: there are cargo containers which have guillotines logos on them for identification, which have Guillotines packed inside, will look for that link also.

Later he provides the link with the "proof", which appears to be a FAQ on Canadian insurance law.

Rainbow Technicoloured Wood Veneer Ltd. v The "Canmar Conquest" et al., (June 8, 2000) No.
T-2580-97 (F.C.T.D.), [2000] F.C.J. No. 1032
This was an action by the Plaintiff against its cargo insurer for damage to a guillotine press in an amount in excess of $100,000.00. The Defendant insurer argued that coverage was excluded by clause 4.3 of the Institute Cargo Clauses (A) in that the press was insufficiently packed and prepared for shipment.

Of course, a guillotine press is to guillotines what a wolf spider is to wolves. I knew these truthers had trouble with similes, but now they can't even understand the concept of an adjective.

How Is Mark Roberts Wrong?

An astounding post over at 9-11 Blogger:

I know some of you believe this is a no-brainer. You might say, "oh, well Mark Roberts is a schill or an idiot" but consider for a minute that he is another human being like all of us. (and for the record I am not a Mark Roberts apologist) However, I just spent well over 5 hours (more than I would have liked to really) reading over his material and I have a simple question; How is Mark Roberts wong? Please do not come at me with disinfo non-sense or any sort of character assault. I have read his material and have my own opinions on the matter.

Every now and then we encounter a real truthseeker; most of them are just interested in finding something that backs up their predetermined conclusions. Ron Wieck made a very telling point the other day. We 9-11 Debunkers pore over 9-11 conspiracy sites with a great deal of zeal, while many of the Deniers actively avoid our sites in fear they will encounter something that challenges their worldview. Kudos to the poster, Iconoclast, and to the one commenter thus far (Kevin Fenton) who has raised some substantive issues. I am sure that Mark will review that comment and, in the unlikely event he was mistaken, make the necessary corrections.

Full of Sound and Fury....

And signifying nothing. Not sure what to make of this fun thread over at the Looser forum, but it sure is entertaining. Russell Pickering, a CT who's convinced that the Pentagon flyover never happened, battles it out with the flyover turkeys, Craig Ranke and Aldo Marquis.

I've pretty much ignored the Pentacon video; it does not seem to be catching on with the 9-11 Denial Crowd, with approximately 50,000 viewings since it was posted back in February. Indeed, bickering with Pickering seems to be the only way to get any attention for their cruddy film.

Loose Change Final Cut Updates

Jason Bermas was on with Kevin "Death List" Barrett this evening and disclosed some more information about the Final Cut. The film that will be shown in New York is reportedly "90%" of the total movie; the only part that won't be shown is the last chapter of the movie. Jason is hoping to release it on the internet by November 11, with DVDs shipping in December. Of course, we know what happens with these guys and timeframes; I think the original delivery date for this movie was September 11th. 2006. Jason indicated that there will probably be no movie in the theaters with the possible exception of some European distributor, probably Mercury Media.

Challenge to 9-11 Deniers: Try Your Hand at "Debunking 9-11 Debunking"

(Bumped to top for the remainder of Tuesday; scroll down for newer content)

Our debunking buddies Mark (Gravy) Roberts and Ron (Pomeroo) Wieck will be taping two Hardfire shows tonight. The first one will feature Mark and Ron discussing Kevin (Waterboy Wonder) Ryan's and William (Keymaster) Rodriguez's claims.

The second one will be a call-in show starting at 9:00 PM EDT where callers can try their luck at debunking the #1 9-11 debunker. Ron wants it to be noted that Kevin Ryan, William Rodriguez and Richard Gage are specifically invited to call in during the show. Of course, we know that Ryan will chicken out, but it is certainly possible that Willie or Gage may pick up the phone.

The call-in number:

718-935-9598

You can watch the latter show live tonight at 9:00 Eastern here:

Scroll down, and click on channel 2.

The other show (without the call-ins) will be available on Google Video at some later date.

The BBC Interviews In-Depth

We already had a couple of threads discussing the recent BBC radio show, but some of the comments, particularly those by Jason Bermas, were so incredibly idiotic that they deserved to be pointed out specifically.

Rick Moran: We have demolition teams wiring up the World Trade Centers, you say in a matter of weeks. Pulling down the walls, putting the charges in, and than putting the walls back up. And then covering them very nicely so that they look just the way they did when people left for work.

Jason Bermas: Once again I just want to point out that never in our movie do we say that demolition teams came in and rigged the building up. We say that the buildings were brought down in a controlled demolition, and we need an investigation to find out how that happened.

Huh? So they never claimed that demolition teams rigged up the building? Well how the hell did the buildings get rigged for demolition then Jason? Magic? Was it gremlins? Star Trek transporter technology? What at idiotic argument.

Anyway, to continue, they ask the obvious question:

Host: Well how is that controlled demolition organized? How is that controlled demolition organized?

Dave von Kleist: Jason, that is a trap question, don't even try to bother answering that! That is a trap question!

Host: Well let's just cool it down here, because Jason it does seem to me you have got a number of people here asking you the same question. You've got... you believe that these buildings were brought down, but you can't explain at all how this is possible.

Dave von Kleist: He can't. He can't explain it.

Jason Bermas: I am not the Attorney General of New York City. I don't have subpoena power. I can't call people in for hearings and ask them questions.

No, you are not an Attorney General. You are in fact, an idiot. You can't even massage your theories enough that they make sense when you explain them, so you have to avoid actually explaining them.

He continues to dig the hole deeper.

Jason Bermas: However, it is curious to me, that Securacom, which was the company in charge of security at the World Trade Center, and one of Bush's brothers was the head of it at one time and then one of his cousins, was on the board.

Wow, that is just an amazing sentence. Let us count the errors. 1. Securacom (actually Stratesec at the time, I will give him a pass on that error) was never in charge of security, they merely had a contract for electronic security. 2. That contract ended in 1998, three years before 9/11. 3. Marvin Bush was never the head of Stratesec, he was only on the board of directors. 4. Wirt Walker, who actually was CEO of Stratesec, is not known to be related in any way to the Bush family. This guy has been studying 9/11 for over 4 years (he is the researcher, remember) and he actually manages to make 4 errors of fact in one sentence. Simply amazing.

But he doesn't even stop there, after refusing a couple of more times to answer how many people it would take to wire up the WTC:

Bermas: The United States has managed to invade two sovereign nations, take over their oil supplies, build an oil pipeline along the Caspian Sea, and put permanent military installation bases around them. I think that is their motivation.

Yeah OK Jason, why don't you ask your buddy Korey, as soon as he gets out of the stockade, how many oil pipelines he saw running through Afghanistan alongside all those "permanent military installation bases".

Some of the truthers I think are just egotistical, or naive. I have said it before and I will say it again, this guy is just a moron.

September Clues Part II--Pink Elephants

Wow, that is hilariously bad. They take a grainy video, blow it up and show us that it pixelizes? Then because the sound clips out or the distance is further than it appears they want us to believe that there was no explosion? They highlight the famed Bob & Bri footage and try to make it a big mystery why something's missing; as if it wasn't well known that they snipped several moments from their film (by mistake in my opinion since the cracks just allow this stuff to grow). The second tower impact and the collapse of the two buildings are edited out of the footage that has been shown from Bob & Bri's footage. It's sad, but they were concerned their film would be used to prove the conspiracy theories and of course it has, perhaps inevitably.

UN Takeover Imminent

Having served in Bosnia I find these Alex Jones type theories that the UN is on the verge of taking over the US and throwing everyone into concentration camps laughable. Despite widespread international support the UN could not even takeover a country of less than 4 million people without their peacekeepers being constantly humiliated, disarmed, and taken hostage, but yet somehow they are going to overthrow the world's greatest military power in secret.


So this thread at the Loose Change Forum had me cracking over its idiocy:

I came across some interesting articles and photos which show that UN forces are gathering in huge numbers in the US, Canada, And Mexico.Should we just wait while they sharpen their knives and oil their guns, or should we be watching them and expecting a confrontation? you tell me.

Let's take a look at some of these pictures:
























Huge numbers? As far as I can tell there are 6 Humvees. That is a platoon. With that many troops you could occupy about one block in Texas... tenuously.




























We're going to party like it's 1997!





















Here we are now back to 1995, apparently it took the UN 2 years to bring the other truck of Humvees over the border...


























The UN has Soviet Scud missiles, who knew?







Oh no, they have a bus! Where is the short bus for all the truthers?!

Schroeder's Account Analyzed

More than Mark Roberts' (aka Gravy) terse, declarative writing style and his mad research skillz, what really blows me away is his organization (no, not the NWO). He analyzes the recent video of Dylan, Luke Rudkowski and others interviewing Firefighter John Schroeder. It is clear that Schroeder's account, like those of many others from that day, contains time-compression problems that make it difficult to reconcile his current account (nearly six years later) with more contemporaneous accounts. Mark has gone through the interview virtually line by line, and compared it with other accounts, then organized everything neatly. Not coincidentally, he has pointed out some of the fabrications that the questioners managed to insert into the video.

This has been a great day to be a blogger, with the opportunity to link to two terrific pieces of debunking research, without even breaking a sweat in the process.

Kudos to Mark! Let me remind the "Truthers" that if they want to try some real world debunking 9-11 debunking, they should call in tomorrow (Tuesday) night at 9:00 PM Eastern to challenge Mr Roberts and Ron (Pomeroo) Wieck. The phone-in number is 718-935-9598.

To watch the show LIVE tomorrow night,

Go here, scroll down, and click on channel 2.

(Correction for the following. The 7:00 show will not be available immediately online, so 9:00 PM tomorrow is the time to fix in your mind if you are among the hordes of Americans on the East Coast. If you are in the blighted Central Time Zone or elsewhere, do the math. We fortunate few in the West can listen in at 6:00)

Remember that the fun actually begins at 7:00 PM eastern as well, since Mark and Ron will be discussing Willie Rodriguez and Kevin Ryan, who have declined to present their baloney to the grinder thus far. Ron would like especially to invite Willie, Kevin and Richard Gage to call in.

Al Franken Passes His Test!

Another moment that will probably cost me my place in the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, but I gotta slap Al on the back for his performance here:



You're smart enough not to fall for 9-11 crackpottery, you're good enough to not to believe in these kooks, and doggone it, people like you for it!

It's obvious that he's encountering a rookie "Truth Squad"; they can't even get basic facts right. Hilariously they talk about "Brad" making 9-11 Mysteries because he initially didn't believe in the conspiracy theories. Except, of course, that "Brad" didn't make 9-11 Mysteries, Sofia Shafquat did.

World Have Your Say Wrapup

It was certainly an entertaining half-hour as predicted. Kudos to the host who kept things on track despite the best derailment efforts by one of the participants (more about him later).

I was pleased to hear my good buddy Rick Moran on the show, and a Dutch blogger also joined in; I believe but am not certain it was one of our friends from Complot Denkers. Jason was well-prepared as always, courteous and responsive while representing his side well.

Unfortunately, Dave Von Kleist was a thorough pill. Have you ever noticed on these discussion shows that the guy who spends the most time interrupting is also the one who screams "Let me finish!" when you try to get a word in edgewise? Whether it was yelling at Jason not to answer that question or moaning that everybody calls them crackpots, Von Kleist was thoroughly annoying. I've half a mind to rip apart his crockumentary, 9-11 Ripple Effect, and half a mind that it would be more damaging not to tackle the subject. One of the oddball effects of debunking is that when we tackle something it automatically gives it a little more credibility among the conspiracy theorist crowd, and no, I'm not kidding.

You can listen in to the program here for the next day or so. There is a brief intro to the 9-11 argument and then a segment on the Greek fires, and the second half-hour is solid 9-11 debate.

I tried to interject into the argument about how many people who were involved in the 9-11 plot that Von Kleist himself earlier in the show accused the mainstream media of covering up the facts about 9-11.

Enjoyed everything else about doing the show, especially the help from Bill Shedd of KJZZ. Bill's a real pro and made me feel quite a home in the studio.

Pay Attention to Me!

As I have written before, much of the motivation for conspiracy theorists is ego. They are the people with the truth, the answers that nobody else can see. As such, they whine like little children when people won't pay attention to their Messianic wisdom. In a follow-up to the recent (non-existent) Portland nuke scare, by Captain Eric May (he is no longer in, but he keeps on using the title like he is):

Oregonian reporter Joseph Rose contacted me (nearly two weeks after he said he would) for two half-hour interviews. It was apparent that he was trying to gather quotes outlandish enough to justify a hostile article against me for my coverage of Noble Resolve. Not having his facts together -- and frustrated that I did -- he firmly and finally announced that I was an unworthy source and unscrupulous reporter. Considering the source, I was honored, and pleased to have published a short article on his and his paper's ineptitude: "Noble Resolve (Helping The Oregonian Catch Up)" http://www.oregontruthalliance.org/

The Oregonian wasn't alone in the practice of presstitution, though. Portland's ABC, NBC and CBS affiliates kept mum about Noble Resolve for the weeks that viewers were calling their newsrooms asking for details about the growing and disturbing Internet story. In a splendid display of chutzpah, ABC's KATU-2 aired a story Thursday ridiculing the fears of the public they had failed to inform with "Conspiracy theorists claim ONG drill is prelude to Portland attack" http://www.katu.com/news/local/9334236.html

Sorry dude, but there is a guy on 3rd street who keeps on screaming that the world is going to end too, that doesn't mean they have to throw him on the front page of the Oregonian

About That Molten Metal Dripping from the South Tower

As we know, Steven Jones considers this a very significant event. Paolo Attivissimo, a terrific Italian debunker, looked into the matter and discovered something very significant. (Correction, Paolo drops by in the comments and notes that he translated the piece, credit goes to Henry62 who co-blogs with Paolo here).

Given these facts, it is very likely that the flow was due to light-alloy aluminum but also to the lead of the batteries, combined with other materials originating from the contents of the 81st floor. This combination of materials, after the failure of the floor, poured onto the 80th floor and from there flowed out from the building face. In my opinion, the weight of the batteries and the weakening caused by the fire on the 80th floor (which compromised the structural capacity of the overlying floor trusses) had an important role in the failure of the 81st floor.

Terrific job of research and analysis by Paolo's buddy Henry62! Highly, highly recommended!

Hat Tip: Ron (Pomeroo) Wieck.

Screw Loose Change On BBC Radio!

Bumped Sunday Night

I will be appearing on the Have Your Say program next Monday, tentatively for a debate with Jason Bermas of the Loose Change crew. Have Your Say is a BBC World Service program. It will be an entertaining half hour and I'll post details about how and where to listen in as they become available.

Update: Latest word is that you'll be able to listen in to the segment sometime later today (still haven't recorded it) and that Jason and I will be joined by Dave Von Kleist of In Plane Sight and 9-11 Ripple Effect.

No Planer Goes After Dylan Avery

This is entertaining as hell, but of course in the end it's a crank denouncing another crank, so there's a certain amount I agree with and a certain amount I don't. Hint: I tend to agree when he's criticizing Dylan, disagree about the no-plane nonsense.

Loads of profanity; 25% of this guy's vocabulary begins with F and ends with K.

Hat Tip BG in the comments.

Fisking Fisk

A couple of people have taken on the task.

Twenty-six H:

It’s perhaps something of cliché, but whenever someone clears their throat by appending “I’m not a racist, but…” to the start of their sentence, you can be all but sure that a racist remark of some kind or another will follow. In a similar vein, Robert Fisk claims that he’s “not a conspiracy theorist” in today’s Independent, and then goes on to perform a flawless impersonation of one.

He takes on Fisk's "questions" one by one, doing a terrific job!

Captain Ed also took on Fisk:

Really, given the international stature of Mr. Fisk, it's hard to believe that he really could be this lazy. Perhaps he's just terribly unintelligent. Fortunately, the journalists and engineers at Popular Mechanics are neither, and their work speaks for itself, with real engineers and eyewitness testimony to answer everyone but the ravers and the conspiracy nuts ... and Mr. Fisk.Really, given the international stature of Mr. Fisk, it's hard to believe that he really could be this lazy. Perhaps he's just terribly unintelligent. Fortunately, the journalists and engineers at Popular Mechanics are neither, and their work speaks for itself, with real engineers and eyewitness testimony to answer everyone but the ravers and the conspiracy nuts ... and Mr. Fisk.

My speculation is that Fisk simply decided to buy some peace from the kooks with this article, that he can't really believe this nonsense, but he's seen the attacks Noam Chomsky, George Monbiot and others have taken from the leftists in the 9-11 Denial Movement, and realized there is little downside to giving this semi-endorsement to the crackpots. Yes, he gets criticized by conservatives and maybe some moderates, but he's quite accustomed to that, and lefties and liberals seem willing to give him a pass.

The Portland Nuke: Part II

Well as far as I can tell Portland came through its nuke attack pretty much unscathed, although there are probably still way too many 19 year old drug addicts standing on street corners bumming change off of people.

We can only thank the bravery of the truthers, who at great physical risk repeatedly posted warnings on the Internet telling the New World Order not to nuke the Rose City. I wonder if those "no false flag" pledges made a difference too?

Gibbering Idiots

Sometimes I just despair at the stuff that the crackpot brigade considers evidence. Somebody discovered that American Airlines had edited its own Wikipedia page! Ooga booga! And more important it was a change in the entry regarding Flights 11 and 77 on 9-11-01. I'm not sure whether the change was to or from the following:

Two American Airlines aircraft were hijacked and crashed during the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack: American Airlines flight 77, a Boeing 757, and American Airlines Flight 11, a Boeing 767. Although these flights were daily departures before and a month after September 11, 2001. Neither flight 11 nor 77 were scheduled on September 11, 2001. The records kept by the Bureau of Transportation Statistics (www.bts.gov/gis/) do not list either flight that day.

The bold portion is what has changed. Again, I'm not sure whether the person at American who made the changes added or deleted that bit, but it doesn't matter, because it fits the conspiracy theory either way. If an American employee added that part, he's a bold whistle-blower, while if he deleted it, he's involved in the coverup.

The underlying claim, that neither Flight 11 nor Flight 77 was scheduled that day, is, of course, absurd. This is what we refer to as the "Sacred List" fallacy. There are many, many lists around and inevitably one will be found that does not seem to mention something involving 9-11. This then becomes the Sacred List that the plotters either forgot to revise or did not revise because it was illegal to do so (since the plotters are happy to murder 3,000 people but wouldn't tamper with a list somewhere).

I cannot locate the list the Wikipedia entry mentions because there are dozens of databases at the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the claim on this one doesn't cite which database. I'd suspect it's one used to calculate something like percentage of on-time arrivals, where of course it would not be accurate to include these four flights. Indeed, many databases exclude parts of 9-11 for these very reasons. For example,

Table 12. Air Carrier Occurrences Involving Illegal Acts (Sabotage, Suicide, or Terrorism), 1986 through 2006

Note

Other than the persons aboard aircraft who were killed, fatalities resulting from the September 11, 2001 terrorist acts are excluded from this table.

Table 5. Accidents, Fatalities, and Rates, 1987 through 2006, for U.S. Air Carriers Operating Under 14 CFR 121, Scheduled and Nonscheduled Service (Airlines)

Years followed by the symbol * are those in which an illegal act was responsible for an occurrence in this category. These acts, such as suicide, sabotage and terrorism are included in the totals for accidents and fatalities but are excluded for the purpose of accident rate computation. Table 12 contains a list of illegal act occurrences involving US air carriers for the period covered by this table. Other than the persons aboard aircraft who were killed, fatalities resulting from the September 11, 2001 terrorist act are excluded from this table.

Deception Dollars Show Circle Of Life Applies to Conspiracy Theorists Too

The "Truthers" have a cute little gimmick called "Deception Dollars". They're obvious knockoffs of US dollar bills that are intended to advertise 9-11 Denial websites. One thing is pretty obvious though, looking back at the older issues; the people on top of the 9-11 movement today are like pop music stars; they're here today and forgotten tomorrow.

Consider the first Deception Dollars which featured these websites:

pi911.org: Abandoned, and the Wayback Machine says they've got some sort of block preventing us from seeing the site. Never heard of this one before.

Whatreallyhappened.com. Site still active, but certainly not a major 9-11 site.

CopvCIA.com. Mike Ruppert's original site, it's now gone. Haven't heard an update on Ruppert in awhile.

Globalresearch.ca Michel Chossudovsky's site is still running, but 9-11 seems only a small part of their focus.

Emperors-Clothes.com. A very influential early 9-11 crackpot site by Jared Israel. Still around but only one update in the last six months.

Falloutshelternews.com. Looks like the fallout shelter took a direct hit.

Deception Dollar #2 added:

Unansweredquestions.org. Yet another ghost town.

ratical.org/ratville/cah. No rats living in ratville anymore.

CooperativeResearch.org. The 9-11 Timeline is still going strong, still only partly woo.

Questionsquestions.net. One update since October 2005, to note that some older links are busted.

Sigacanada.com. Apparently now a link farm.

legitgov.org They do have some 9-11 related material, but it's listed below their "Coup 2004" and "Yes, Gore Did Win" sections.

GNN TV. General purpose crackpot website still going strong.

Thewaronfreedom.com. Linkfarmed.

Onlinejournal.com. General purpose crackpot site.

Truth-now.com. Guy selling bumper stickers, only a few of which are 9-11 related.

911-strike.com. Anti-Zionism site.

Americanfreepress.net Another "blame it on the Jews" site.

In short, it is pretty apparent that none of the websites dedicated solely to 9-11 issues have survived; it's only the folks who integrate 9-11 nuttery with a bunch of other fruitcake stuff that last.

Robert Fisk Goes Nutter

Of course, he denies being a crackpot while recycling all of the crackpot questions.

But – here we go. I am increasingly troubled at the inconsistencies in the official narrative of 9/11. It's not just the obvious non sequiturs: where are the aircraft parts (engines, etc) from the attack on the Pentagon? Why have the officials involved in the United 93 flight (which crashed in Pennsylvania) been muzzled? Why did flight 93's debris spread over miles when it was supposed to have crashed in one piece in a field? Again, I'm not talking about the crazed "research" of David Icke's Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster – which should send any sane man back to reading the telephone directory.

I am talking about scientific issues. If it is true, for example, that kerosene burns at 820C under optimum conditions, how come the steel beams of the twin towers – whose melting point is supposed to be about 1,480C – would snap through at the same time? (They collapsed in 8.1 and 10 seconds.) What about the third tower – the so-called World Trade Centre Building 7 (or the Salmon Brothers Building) – which collapsed in 6.6 seconds in its own footprint at 5.20pm on 11 September? Why did it so neatly fall to the ground when no aircraft had hit it? The American National Institute of Standards and Technology was instructed to analyse the cause of the destruction of all three buildings. They have not yet reported on WTC 7. Two prominent American professors of mechanical engineering – very definitely not in the "raver" bracket – are now legally challenging the terms of reference of this final report on the grounds that it could be "fraudulent or deceptive".

Yes, he's not talking about the crazed research, he's talking about the sane stuff like that fire can't melt steel and what went down with Building 7.

Is Willie Rodriguez the Lindbergh Baby?

Charles Lindbergh was an American hero, the first man to fly the Atlantic Ocean. Years later his baby was kidnapped and held for ransom, and apparently killed even though the ransom money was paid. A German-American named Bruno Hauptmann was eventually convicted of the crime, although conspiracy theories have raged for decades about the matter, and for a time it was fashionable for the tabloids to claim sensationally that one or the other new Hollywood celebrity was secretly the Lindbergh baby.

Of course, given that the Lindbergh baby would now be 77 years old, it seems highly unlikely that Willie Rodriguez could be that former infant, barring some medical miracle from Bill Deagle's pharmacopia. But the Feathered Bastard notes some distinct similarities between the Keymaster and Lucky Lindy.

An Oldie but an Idiotic One

This is about a year old, from August 2006, but I just ran into it, and wasn't sure if we had covered it before. Dylan Avery being interviewed by the CBC. It exposes plenty of his nuttery.

First, coming up with the most ridiculously convoluted theories on "Chic" Burlingame:

Avery: This is the pilot. Now, seriously, let's just take a step back for a second, and just think about this: this guy worked in the Pentagon, did anti-terrorism strategies, worked in the Naval Command Center, he knew all these people in the Pentagon, he was flying American Airlines, on the morning of 9/11, he is the alleged pilot of American Airlines Flight 77, which, you know, flies over Arlington Cemetery, where his dad is buried - and he will eventually be buried months later - flies over Reagan... or flies over Arlington National Cemetery, flies into the very office where he used to work at the Pentagon, killing every single co-worker he used to have... uhhhh... no, again, it comes off as crazy when you bring up all these things separately, it's just, that the numbers behind that have to be astronomical, the odds of that happening..

Solomon: But, the odds of.. I mean, just think about, let's just put it all together, because this is what a lot of people are trying to figure out, and then look at all the inconsistencies that you raise, and they are interesting, without a doubt. But think about the pilots on the planes, the passengers, who either have to be murdered..

Avery: OK, but again, we're doing circular logic here, we're talking about people that might have been involved, where people might have been, I'm talking about facts.

Count how many times Avery used the "just asking questions" excuse to avoid having to state what actually happened.

And of course here he describes the future of Loose Change:

Solomon: When will this come out in theatres?

Avery: Next year. We're wrapping it up hopefully by the end of this year, and we're going to have it in Sundance in January, and hopefully have deals locked and loaded for next year.

Promises, promises...

Go Kev, Go!

Well, I guess since he is no longer employed as a part-time college professor, he has plenty of time on his hands:

I'm strongly considering running for a House seat in 2008. You should be too. Here's why.

-Kevin Barrett

Why, Some of My Best Friends are Terrorists

Get this rather original response to Stephen Lemons' portrait of Screw Loose Change and me:

It was nice knowing you: Your appalling portrait of pro-Republican Fox News lover Pat Curley is disgusting ("The Yoda of 9/11," Stephen Lemons, August 9). Comparing him to Yoda from Star Wars? When all of your personal rights have been diminished in fear of the "so-called" terrorists maybe you will understand. Ask yourself, how many terrorists have you met? But yet we all should live in fear? I hope you continue to move toward truth, and for now, I choose to move away from your publication. Tell Ted Turner I said hello.

Kevin Jones, Phoenix

Offhand I can think of about 2,996 people who had never met a terrorist as of about 8:11 in the morning on 9-11-01 who were about to have that experience. None of them will have another opportunity to meet anybody.

Yet Another Inside Job

Uncovered by the brilliant cartoonist team of Cox and Forkum. It captures the hysteria and paranoia of the movement perfectly. Highly recommended as is their earlier cartoon on the Truthers from last year.

A Spot of Debunking

A new commenter named Boris Epstein claimed in the comments to be able to prove with high school physics that the official story is impossible, so I asked him to put together a post on his blog and we'd take a look at it. Boris divides the events of 9-11 into "Impossible", "Improbable" and "Implausible". Under "Impossible":

Near free-fall speed collapse of WTC1 (10 seconds), WTC2 (10 - 14 seconds) and WTC7 (6.5 seconds).

We'll briefly note the high school physics stuff about how free fall is not "speed" but acceleration. Nobody has satisfactorily timed the collapse of the Twin Towers to my knowledge, due to several difficulties.

First, nobody was close enough to film the collapse of the buildings in their entirety without their view being obstructed by the other large buildings in the way. Those who were close enough were running too hard to focus on the collapses.

Second, nobody has explained why controlled demolition should be as fast as free-fall speed in the first place. This seems to be just assumed.

Here's a page with the Southwark Towers demolition, which Steven Jones cited in one of his lectures as a very good comparable for the WTC. You have to click on the third icon from the left on the bottom row to see this demo.

Watching carefully, I estimated that the roof on the left building started sagging right around 38.24 into the movie, and that the top of the building hit ground at about 45.69. Thus the duration of the collapse was about 7.45 seconds. From this page we know that the roof of the building was about 98 meters high, or approximately 323 feet. But a building of 323 feet should not take 7.45 seconds to collapse in free fall, it should only take 4.5 seconds by the formula 16*4.5^2=323.

And indeed, there is no reason to expect that controlled demolition results in a free-fall collapse of a building, for the same "common sense" reasoning that the CD theorists use with regard to the WTC. As Boris writes:

That model excludes such factors as resistance each floor should be expected to provide, the air resistance or considerations of energy needed to pulverize the contents of the buildings reported to have been turned into fine dust.

If you watch the Southwark Towers, you'll see that they appeared to blow out every fifth floor or so. But shouldn't the other floors provide resistance? And in fact, they do, which is why the implosion takes as long as it does, instead of free fall time.

Another thing that the CT crowd seldom looks at is where the collapses initiated and where they ended up. They say "Well, a rock dropped from the top of the WTC would have hit the ground in 9.22 seconds." Yes, but the collapse did not start from the top, and it did not end at the ground. WTC 2 collapsed from 28 floors down, and ended up in a pile that was about 8 stories high. If we say that each floor was about 12 feet high, this means that effectively the South Tower collapsed approximately 74 stories, or around 900 feet, not the 1360 or so feet that is commonly used in these calculations.

Impossibility #2:

The pools of molten steel found in the ruins of the three skyscrapers that collapsed on 9/11.

Sigh. I'll be hearing this one on my deathbed. Just because people say they saw molten steel under the buildings doesn't mean its true. As we have discussed endlessly, the NASA thermal imaging photos showed temperatures of up to 1400 degrees Fahrenheit in the pile, which is not remotely enough to melt steel. Ergo, the material was something else, probably aluminum or lead or other metals which do melt at temperatures under 1400 degrees F.

Improbability #1:

Four airliners successfully hijacked and subject to intercept procedures are not intercepted, even though one of them, American Airlines Flight 77, flies after being hijacked for over 40 minutes.

This is the continuing false belief in the infallibility of NORAD and NEADS (Northeast Air Defense Sector). Read the Vanity Fair piece.

American Airlines Flight 11
NEADS notified at 8:37
Crashed into North Tower at 8:46

United Airlines Flight 175
NEADS notified at 9:03
Crashed into South Tower at 9:03

American Airlines Flight 77
NEADS notified at 9:34
Crashed into Pentagon at 9:37

United Airlines Flight 93
NEADS notified at 10:07
Crashed into strip mine in Shanksville, 10:03

To me, it is very implausible that any of those planes could have been intercepted given the minimal to nonexistent lead time that NEADS had.

The individuals alleged to have taken over the job of piloting hijacked airliners were all characterized by their flight instructors as rather inefficient, if not hopelessly inept, pilots.

And yet they all had commercial pilots' licenses. Hani Hanjour (who gets cited) was indeed turned down for a plane rental at Freeway Airport, but he was turned down after making three test flights with instructors at that airport. It is hard to believe that a hopelessly inept pilot would be given a second chance, let alone a third. In Dylan's film, Marcel Bernard describes him as an average to below average pilot, not hopelessly inept.

Hani Hanjour, the alleged pilot of AA 77, chooses to aim for the West Wing of the Pentagon.

Because that was the closest wing.

On September 11, 2001 a number of war games, some simulating aircraft hijackings were in progress.

My response to this one is always the same. How many war games, some involving simulating aircraft hijackings, were in progress on the morning of 9-10-01? Nobody's ever had an answer to that, but it is crucial to understanding whether the number and type of war games that day were unusual.

If some of you want to take on the implausible ones in the comments feel free.

Still Moron Bill Deagle

Our buddy the Feathered Bastard listened to his speech and points out some of the yet more interesting things Bill "modified attack baboons ate my brain" Deagle had to say:

"I have been in underground cities."

"The only thing that could have done that (brought down the Twin Towers) are nukes. There is no other conclusion. It's not something that's open to discussion."

The entire speech is Stundie material!

Why We Debunk

This was left in our comments section by Lucus, and it's such a sad story that I felt compelled to promote it to the front page:

Hello Everyone,

In total regret, I wanted to inform you all that I can no longer do what I have been doing. I wanted to send this to all of you because I did not want a bunch of rumors floating around about why nobody is going to be seeing my around. I was not “taken out” or “bought off” or “forced by anyone” to do this.

I am a busted guy right now. I am broke, stuck in the middle of no place without a car/license and can’t seem to find a job right now. I owe $1500 before I am allowed to get my license back which leaves me in kind of a weird situation. Without a license/car I can’t get a job, and without a Job I can’t afford to get my license back. Not only that but I have no health insurance and my knee is in bad shape so I am very limited at what I can do right now.

I brought all this on myself. Before I went full blast on 911 truth, I had a career at a place I loved to work on the beach in Corpus Christi, Texas. I had a beautiful fiancé that I was supposed to marry on March 17th who I had been with for 7 years. I left her on Jan 1st of this year because I did not want the powers that be coming down on her for something I was doing. She was trying to finish school and I did not want to do anything to ruin that. To my great and utter regret she has now met someone else and is moving on without me which was the final nail in my coffin. That has hurt me in ways I can’t even express right now.

I made The Ultimate Con as a gift to you, my country, our people, and the world. I felt somehow responsible as a part of society that let this tragic day of 9/11 happen by being complacent. I am not the kind of person that can find out about something like this and let it pass. I just don’t have it in my heart to do so.

I wish I could go on, but I have been beaten down. I don’t know what I am going to do to get out of this jam, but I must do something. I am on the verge of total oblivion at this point and if it was not for the grace of God and my cat I don’t know how I would have made it this far.

I want to thank everyone for the tremendous moral support they have given me through all this. I can actually go to my grave someday knowing that I tried my damnedest to help people understand what is going on in this world. If I could do it all over again I would have done it a little differently. I would not have left Vanessa, my soul mate, the love of my life, the fine beautiful lady I was going to call my wife. I will regret that every day until the day I die.

Please keep up this battle without me. Don’t make the same mistakes I have made by concentrating so much effort into fighting these evil bastards that you leave behind the ones you love and care about. I have slept alone, and on the cold floor of a friends house for 9 months now regretting that stupid choice I made. There is nothing I can do to change that, and I see that now. Don’t let them destroy the finer things you have in your life, as I have so stupidly done. I have given up eve...

(Cut off by Haloscan's 1000 character limit)

This, more than anything else, is why we debunk; to prevent another person from going down that road that Lucus has traveled, particularly the younger people who are reading this blog and intrigued by the 9-11 conspiracy theories. You will never get anything out of 9-11 activism other than worn out shoes and a bunch of black tee shirts; it's a one-way ticket to oblivion. Don't become one of those guys setting up a card table shrine to Alex Jones and Dylan Avery and Webster Tarpley.

Please, no snarky comments about Lucus. He's a man who made a mistake. It can be tough remembering that there are two different types of "Truthers"; the conmen at the top of the pyramid and the True Believers.

Update: And those chastising Troy for his admittedly unkind emails to Lucus should check out what one of the admins at the LC Forum wrote after one of the members over there donated/loaned $2,000 to Lucus:

Wow LUCUS! It is truly remarkable that a kind stranger (here since June) would donate two thousand dollars to you, the formidable infowarrior you are, especially when the likes of wearechange have trouble scraping up a few dollars for their important historic endeavors.

This should serve as a reminder to you to be the utmost appreciative, because this person gave/loaned you the money as a reminder that you, the venerable LUCUS are truly at the epicenter of this battle for truth.... dude you are the truth movement incarnate! [/sarcasm]

Note: I am not criticizing Troy for his emails; I know the abuse that gets heaped on both sides of this debate but don't know the history between those two.

When a Truther Tries "Facts"

"Fact" #1. NORAD had a "perfect history" of intercepting planes which deviated from their flight paths in the prior two years. They had a 100% success rate and they were able to intercept over 150 aircraft within 10 minutes.

The real fact is that the only plane that was intercepted in the two years prior to 9-11 was rather famously Payne Stewart's aircraft, which was 100% successfully intercepted... 81 minutes after it first went off course. And even if you bought his "fact", NORAD did not have 10 minutes notice for any of those flights as was highlighted in the excellent Vanity Fair piece last year.

Fact #2. Not one pilot transmitted a hijack code which is a four digit code. Correct. But what is he really implying here? That the planes were not hijacked? He says, absurdly, "I'd like to know why."

Well, considering that all the people who were there at the time are dead, it's sort of impossible to answer. My first guess is that the pilots assumed they'd have plenty of opportunity since no other hijacking in history had been accompanied by the hijackers killing the pilots (with the exception of the PSA flight in 1987).

Update: Swing Dangler points out in the comments two other cases where the hijackers killled a pilot; one was on the ground after landing, but the other is legitimately comparable. So now we have two prior instances where hijackings were accompanied by the midair murder of the pilots. Still, this was not a common MO for hijackings.

Fact #3. Where are the Doubletree Hotel tapes?

As you can see, we have already moved from "facts" to questions. He claims the Doubletree employees are subject to gag orders (nonsense) and that intimidating threats were made to them. It's not nice to lie, even in support of the "Truth".

Real Fact: The Doubletree video was released to CNN in December of last year. The usual crack job of research by a 9-11 "Truther".

Fact #4 The NYFD (sic) investigators were refused access to Ground Zero to investigate the towers falling.

Real Fact: Considering FDNY was crawling all over the site for months afterward this is just one of those ridiculous claims that the guy pulls out of nowhere.

Fact #5. Bush and Cheney refused to testify separately, refused to do it under oath, and there was no taping or media allowed.

Real Fact: Hey, he got one right for a change. Cue X-Files music. He hammers on the "why not under oath" bit which is quite simply retarded. Look, you think the Bush administration planned or allowed 9-11 to happen, but they didn't want to lie under oath about it? Can't run the risk of a perjury rap on top of 3000 murder indictments, right?

Fact #6. Only three of the 9-11 Commission members were allowed to see all the evidence.

Real Fact: Dunno if this is true, but it seems reasonable. There was sensitive information in some areas, particularly with regard to the CIA, so rather than have everybody on the commission and staff know it, they made sure one of the representatives from each party saw it, plus apparently one other person.

Fact #7. Why was the budget so low as compared to the amount spent investigating Clinton's sex scandal?

Real Fact: Because the budget for Clinton's "sex" scandal involved a bunch of other stuff than Monica Lewinsky (like the entire Whitewater investigation), and in fact was not "budgeted". Special prosecutors essentially had an open mandate to get to the bottom of investigations, and damn the costs (which is one reason why the special prosecutor law was not renewed).

No Loose Change Final Cut In Toronto

Not a surprise that those sophisticated Torontonians wouldn't accept the film; for one thing it hasn't been completed (despite being promised for over two years). But still, it's nice to see the gap:

Late Fragment
Lou Reed's Berlin

Some high fives over at JREF (scroll down to the recent posts; the original notice there was preliminary).

Hat Tip: The Good Lt. (in the comments).

David Ray Griffin's Library

Sometimes a picture does say a thousand words.

Portland Nutters Set Up Card Table Shrine at Airport

Yeah, just the sort of material you want to be looking at when you're flying; claims that the US government pulled off 9-11.

But on the eve of 9/11’s sixth anniversary, local “9/11 truth activist” David Morrison has proven these assumptions wrong. (Doubters of 9/11 dislike the term “conspiracy theorists,” saying it conjures images of Oliver Stone movies, UFOs and black helicopters.)

Morrison applied for—and got—a permit this month from the Port of Portland to locate his “coverup” table in the airport’s busy thoroughfare separating gates A, B and C on one side from gates D and E.

For eight hours Aug. 7 he handed out documentary DVDs, including the increasingly popular 9/11 Mysteries , a 90-minute film from 2006 that focuses on the science behind the demolition of the World Trade Center towers.

Yeah, the increasingly popular 9-11 Mysteries, which cites Eric Hufschmid, holocaust denier, as its inspiration.

Sounds like some of the TSA workers might not understand the need of checking out guys named Mohamed carefully enough:

“But as the officers looked at my materials, one of them pointed to one of the DVDs and said to the other officer, ‘This is the one I was telling you about—you have to see it,’” he recalls. “The two even came back a little later and asked for duplicate copies to give to friends.… We chatted about it. They were great.”

Something to remember if you're thinking of visiting Portland. Of course, it's hard to see why you'd want to given that it's about to be nuked according to the crackpots.

John Gibson Takes on Alex Jones

Fox News' John Gibson talks about Alex Jones' recent breakdown, the NAU, and interviews a truther.

The "Truthers" Are Just Like Michael Jackson

No, not like that. According to Alex Jones:

Bradley Davis, the producer of the show, is a paid liar and a hit piece specialist who deceives people by gaining their confidence and then attacking them behind their back.

He is famous for the smear job documentary on Michael Jackson and makes a career out of conning people and then stabbing them in the back.